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View Full Version : Why do people spend $300+ on a pellet rifle?


deucelee
February 15, 2014, 11:13 PM
Hi all. I noticed that airgundepot and other shops have some very nice pellet guns for $300-$500. For those of you that have a very nice pellet rifle, can you tell me why you're spending $300+ on a pellet rifle when you can get a very nice 22LR rifle for the same $?

Maybe you have enough 22LR's/17HMR's/22WMR's?

You want to shoot indoors? Or outside without a lot of noise?

I have a CZ 455 and it's a gorgeous rifle. I'm considering buying a pellet gun for practice indoors. Contemplating how much I should spend before I regret not just buying another nice WMR or something similar.

thanks,
deuce

B.L.E.
February 15, 2014, 11:54 PM
Think about it. An air rifle is actually more complicated than a firearm. Why should it be cheaper?
You get what you pay for, if you demand cheap, that's exactly what you will get, whether you are buying an air rifle or a fire arm. You want a hard trigger with a mile of creep and backlash instead of a crisp target trigger, then buy a $99 dollar .22 rifle or air gun.
You want plastic parts and a poor fit and finish and a cheap look? Then buy a $99 dollar .22 or air rifle.
You want a wood stock that looks like it belongs on a AK-47, then buy a $99 dollar .22 or air rifle.

CCCLVII
February 16, 2014, 12:14 AM
I think its like buying an expensive pocket watch. Sure a cheep watch from walmart will tell time and may even work better for some applications but some people like pocket watches. Just like some people like air rifles.

p.s. there are some cities that allow you to shoot air rifles with in the city limits but not centerfire or rimfire guns. I lived in such a town for many years. We used a 22 caliber pellet gun for taking birds/squirrels that would harm our garden.

Personally I would like one of these. http://www.crosman.com/croswords/?p=1595

its a $1500.00 air rifle that shoots a 9mm sized bullet.

1stmar
February 16, 2014, 06:37 AM
Pretty cool, was just looking for something I could shoot in my yard. Can't see spending $1500 on it though.

Hawg
February 16, 2014, 07:17 AM
I'd rather have an old school Benjamin.

deucelee
February 16, 2014, 07:41 AM
Ok thanks for the input guys...and BLE, you need to relax bro...i never said in my post that i was after dirt cheap stuff. Obviously I'm after some quality. Then again I'm also looking for a good bang for the buck. That's why I bought myself a CZ instead of 2x as much for a Ruger 77/22. Definitely not "demanding" cheap there.

It wasn't clear in my original post but I'm wondering if there's that big of a difference between a $200-$300 air rifle vs a, say, $350-$500 air rifle. I concur, if I want a nice stock, most guns under $200 are cheesy. Anyway, i'll keep my eyes open for a nice referb of a quality gun then. airgundepot sometimes has the RWS 460 Mag for a good deal for referbs.

B.L.E.
February 16, 2014, 08:38 AM
I'm not up tight about it, I'm just saying that being an air rifle doesn't make it cheap to make, when you consider what's in an air rifle.
If I was to buy an air rifle tomorrow, it would probably be an RWS 54, most likely in .22 simply because the 1100 fps of the .177 is too close to supersonic for quietness.
The whip crack noise of a .22LR comes from the supersonic speed of the bullet, not the muzzle blast. If an air rifle shoots supersonic, you get that same whip crack noise.

MrBorland
February 16, 2014, 09:12 AM
When I shoot an air rifle, it's because I want to be able to work on my rifle marksmanship in my backyard. A plinker won't cut it, and it's just an exercise in frustration. I don't need an olympic-level air rifle, but a decent accurate rifle with a good stock and really nice trigger will cost some coin.


Factory target (HW55):
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/HW55Factorytarget.jpg

5 shots, standing, 10 meters:
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp239/becke016/GunsTargets/HW55Target.jpg

Jimro
February 16, 2014, 10:35 AM
Maybe you have enough 22LR's/17HMR's/22WMR's?

You want to shoot indoors? Or outside without a lot of noise?

As someone who's dropped more than 300 on a Crosman Challenger, and is saving his pennies for a FWB500, I'd say that you can never have enough 22's, and that if you actually compete in air rifle, you need a good rifle.

I have a CZ 455 and it's a gorgeous rifle. I'm considering buying a pellet gun for practice indoors. Contemplating how much I should spend before I regret not just buying another nice WMR or something similar.

If you want a proxy for a rimfire or centerfire, consider a pre-charged pneumatic "sporter class" air rifle such as the Crossman Challenger, Air Arms 200, or Air Force Edge. The trigger pull for sporters is 1.5 lbs minimum, so it helps work your trigger control as well.

If you want a good air rifle for training and not competition, get a Daisy 853 refurbished model from the CMP. Just over 100 bucks if you pick it up in the store, a little more if you get it shipped. Triggers are longer and stiffer from the factory, but the sights and Lothar Walther barrel will let you repeat 10s at 10 meters, even if you have to break position to pump once for every shot.

The Daisy 853 new is one of those "300+" cost rifles, so getting one refurbed through the CMP is a real bargain.

Jimro

g.willikers
February 16, 2014, 12:39 PM
There are very good air rifles in the under $150 range, too.
Look at the Gamo brand, for some ideas.
Some of the cost has less to do with how it shoots, and more about the quality of wood, sights and scope mounts.
Just like firearms.

Jim243
February 16, 2014, 01:05 PM
Why do people spend $300+ on a pellet rifle?

Because a $1,500 pool table just takes up too much room in the basement.


Jim (LOL)

Major Dave (retired)
February 16, 2014, 04:11 PM
kill squirrels, quietly, in my backyard, in a residential subdivision in a city - for less than $150, in the Cabela's catalog.

I don't care about quality of wood stock, or fit/finish. Decent trigger is necessary to make head shots.

Best candidate?:confused:

Jimro
February 16, 2014, 04:50 PM
Major Dave (retired),

Based on your criteria, I recommend this: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Webley_Rebel_Air_Rifle/2980/5778

The gas system is multi-pump, so you will not have to deal with break barrel springer vibration issues affecting accuracy, is 22 caliber so you get to shoot pellets with twice the mass of a standard .177 caliber air rifle, and the price point is in the range you quoted.

Now air rifles aren't silent, but they are much quieter than rimfires, generally quieter than even subsonic 22 shorts.

If you can add 20 dollars to your top price, it is really hard to beat a Benjamin 392 for what you ask: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin_392_pump_air_rifle/205/570#Specifications or http://www.cabelas.com/product/Benjamin-Air-Rifle/740656.uts?WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

Jimro

brad_wp
February 16, 2014, 05:18 PM
Have you tried to buy any .22LR lately? There are still lots of pellets on store shelves. Also, even expensive pellets are less than 5 cents/shot...

Colt46
February 16, 2014, 06:49 PM
You can use them for small game, pests, practice the basics of marksmanship and even do it in your basement if you want to.
Just as much engineering and skilled labor involved in building them as for a conventional firearm.

PetahW
February 17, 2014, 02:16 PM
.

Another excellent reason is that it's not a firearm............ Which means someone wanting quality shooting, but living in a gun-unfriendly area or country, can shoot w/o jumping through legal hoops.



.

spacecoast
February 17, 2014, 03:05 PM
Sometimes spending a lot more for a "good" pellet gun doesn't justify the results. I regularly beat guys using $2000 Feinwerkbau air pistols at our matches using my $55 Crosman American Classic 1377C. They laugh at me pumping it between shots until I beat them (25 yards, standard NRA outdoor targets).

If you can hold it steady it shoots straight.

Jimro
February 17, 2014, 03:36 PM
Spacecoast,

Using my Challenger I was withing 30 points of a shooter using an FWB at my last match. Of course I was wearing sneakers, jeans and a sweatshirt instead of a 500 dollars worth of competition boots, trousers, and jacket. I picked up an Izh-53M for 10 meter pistol shooting, which is my first break barrel airgun. It shoots tighter than I do, but I bought it because I specifically need to work more on pistol marksmanship.

As Col. Cooper said, "Good shooting can make up for poor gear. Good gear will not make up for poor shooting."

Jimro

Erno86
February 17, 2014, 04:08 PM
I just bought a recoilless RWS 54 in .177. It goes at 1100 fps, and it does not give off any sonic boom/crack. It is a heavy rifle --- but I enjoy shooting it --- and it is reported to be the most accurate air rifle under $3000. Our indoor range --- AGC at Marriottsville --- will only allow air rifles under 700 fps, so I shoot it at our outdoor 100 yard range at 25 and 50 yards.

Where I can shoot metallic spinners only at 100 yards with a 22 rimfire...I'm allowed to shoot metallic spinners at 25 and 50 yards with my air rifle, though the 22 pellet might make a louder ping on the spinner.

Slopemeno
February 17, 2014, 06:55 PM
Considering what ammo is going for days, every shooter should own a quality airgun.

Cheapshooter
February 17, 2014, 07:11 PM
For those of you that have a very nice pellet rifle, can you tell me why you're spending $300+ on a pellet rifle when you can get a very nice 22LR rifle for the same $?
1. Target/Practice shooting in areas where powder burners are not allowed.
2. Small game hunting in areas where powder burners are not allowed.
3. The price of pellets, even expensive ones, is much less than 22 rimfire ammo.
4. No shortage of pellets
5. They're FUN!

Garycw
February 17, 2014, 07:32 PM
You can't go wrong with RWS in any model. I bought one about 20 years ago for $200. 1100fps. A model 60 I think?? Nice wood stock, blueing, two stage trigger & very accurate. I would strongly suggest a single pump in whatever you get. Last year a bought a Steoger X20 with suppressor & scope in 22cal. for $160. Not as nice of finish as the RWS, but still a good , but economical rifle. 900fps
While you're at it...get a beemans cleaning kit & Stock up on pellets too. jic.

jason_iowa
February 17, 2014, 08:29 PM
Because they are awesome. 300$ is a pretty low end one. I can buy 10k of pretty awesome ammo for a couple hundred bucks too so its cheap shooting.

jlbpa
February 17, 2014, 08:41 PM
Beeman R1 .22 makes just one ragged hole from 45 ft. with a Leupold 3 x 9 adjustable objective and a rest.

I started out with a benjamin silver streak on MAC1 steroids. But they are not real conducive for scopes. It sort a gets in the way of pumping. I tried a scope but gave up on that. I have williams peep sight on it but I don't see so well anymore. So hitting a target as small as starling at about 45 feet was a struggle. But I still like my silver streak for bigger targets because it packs a wallop and doesn't recoil like the spring piston R1.

Can't use a .22 rim fire ...or better even better yet a shotgun ...where I live in greater suburbia.

But get me out in the country I'll leave my R1 at home and fire away at those pesky flying rats with my shotgun. That's the only wing shooting opportunity I have.

1stmar
February 17, 2014, 08:47 PM
Pcps seem to be pretty expensive to get started and maintain, $400-$500 for the rifle, another $300-400 for the tank.p, then refills. I got this right? is there something else that can keep 1-1.5 inches at 50yds, quietly and be =< then $300? How about that daisy jimro recommended?

Garycw
February 17, 2014, 10:39 PM
You could always go with a dragons claw. If money wasn't a concern.
http://youtu.be/(null)

http://youtu.be/fj5Aq7bz-tI

Jimro
February 18, 2014, 10:32 AM
Pcps seem to be pretty expensive to get started and maintain, $400-$500 for the rifle, another $300-400 for the tank.p, then refills. I got this right? is there something else that can keep 1-1.5 inches at 50yds, quietly and be =< then $300? How about that daisy jimro recommended?

The Daisy 853 I mentioned is a 10 meter competition rifle. If you want a 50 yard rifle that shoots tight you really need to go to a 22 caliber air rifle, and for that I would recommend a Crosman Maurader. Once again it is a PCP, but is fine for hunting.

I fill my PCP Challenger with a Hill Hand Pump. It is expensive, but there are cheaper hand pumps out there. With a Maurader you will get fewer shots per full tank.

If you don't mind learning the "artillery hold" to get best accuracy from a springer, there are a number of break barrel springers that fit the bill, including Stoeger, RWS, Gamo.

Jimro

FiveInADime
February 18, 2014, 11:24 AM
I prefer side-cocking springs or pcp air rifles. I haven't had good luck with long term reliability in break barrel airguns. Anyhow, my dad's RWS mdl 48 .22 is awesome even with the crappy factory sights. With it's favorite pellets I can hit a 1" spinner every time (laying prone) from 30 yards. It's much more challenging standing. I hate shooting standing without a sling.

Cheapshooter
February 18, 2014, 12:02 PM
This thread, along with a few more, make me wonder if TFL should add an air gun forum to the board. That, along with what seems like a lot of recent interest due to the shortage of ammo for powder burners. Especially 22 rimfire.:D

Slopemeno
February 18, 2014, 12:46 PM
There's nothing wrong with a break-barrel springer. The can be "hold-sensitive" but once you have them dialed and are familiar with how they recoil they can be plenty accurate. I have a Beeman C-1 that shoots way better than it should.

And yeah, and Airguns sub-forum would be a great idea.

1stmar
February 18, 2014, 02:59 PM
Was hoping to get a good peep or aperture sight. Will they not adjust high enough for 50yds ?

FiveInADime
February 18, 2014, 03:07 PM
There's nothing wrong with a break-barrel springer. The can be "hold-sensitive" but once you have them dialed and are familiar with how they recoil they can be plenty accurate. I have a Beeman C-1 that shoots way better than it should.

And yeah, and Airguns sub-forum would be a great idea.

I don't disagree that they are, or can be, accurate. My experience has been that things get loose and wear out faster on break barrels than on side-cocked or pcp air guns. I had a similar Beeman break-barrel that was good for a while but it eventually developed problems with barrel droop and had some accuracy issues later on, as well. I wasn't disappointed for $100, though. I would be disappointed if things like that happened on a Weierauch or RWS break-barrel.

Erno86
February 18, 2014, 04:40 PM
You can check out Pyramyd Air's article on: Scope shift and barrel droop

http:www.pyramydair.com/article/Scope_shift_and_barrel_droop.../46

I like my recoiless side lever cocker --- RWS Model 54 --- because I can cock & load the rifle while it's resting on the bench, sitting atop my pedestal rest and bag; while the barrel's muzzle is pointed downrange at the backstop of our range. It is also very quiet as well, with an amazing lack of recoil vibration.

johnwilliamson062
February 18, 2014, 04:50 PM
Can a felon own an air rifle?
How many cities ban shooting an air rifle?
Is an air rifle cheaper to shoot than a center-fire? (I figure I can pump and cast with almost no material loss).

The high powered air rifles aren't quiet.

Jimro
February 18, 2014, 10:30 PM
Can a felon own an air rifle?
How many cities ban shooting an air rifle?
Is an air rifle cheaper to shoot than a center-fire? (I figure I can pump and cast with almost no material loss).

The high powered air rifles aren't quiet.

Yes, air rifles are not considered firearms.
I don't know. Check your local city as it should be the one that matters to you.
An air rifle is much cheaper to shoot than a centerfire, plinking grade pellets can be had for 2 to 3 cents per, premium grade competition pellets 8 to 15 cents per shot.

The high powered air rifles are much much quieter than an equivalent centerfire or rimfire of the same caliber, with the possible exception of a 25 ACP if shot through a rifle.

Jimro

B.L.E.
February 18, 2014, 10:49 PM
The high powered air rifles are much much quieter than an equivalent centerfire or rimfire of the same caliber, with the possible exception of a 25 ACP if shot through a rifle.



I dunno, I'll put CCI Quiet-22®, 710 fps, shot out of a long barrel .22 rifle up against most air rifles in quietness. Mostly I just hear the hammer click and then the bullet smacks the target. If you shoot in your back yard, the bullet trap will make the most noise.
That's if you can actually obtain this ammo during these crazy times.

Another quiet backyard plinking round is a .22 Hornet case primer only, no powder, with a .22 air rifle pellet seated in the neck. This is good for about 350-400 fps with CCI small rifle primers and Crossman .22 Copperhead pellets. It's about as loud as dry firing the gun.

Slopemeno
February 18, 2014, 11:47 PM
Premium H&N wadcutters..177 pellets are $9.95 for 300.

My Beeman C-1 cost $135 back in 1988 as a "blem", so about the same investment as a 10/22. I've shot thousands of rounds though it while camping. No issues with the zero shifting at all over those 25+ years. I've had a Beeman SS-3 scope on it for while. Now it has a Williams receiver sight with no insert for a ghost ring effect. My C-1 isn't super quiet, but then again it has a 13" barrel. If you want to try something interesting, shoot a springer with hearing protection on- "Choinnng".

.22 CB Longs used to be my favorite, but they've gone up significantly in cost over the last 20 years. Right now CCI .22 CB Longs are about $8.99 for 100.

Some other great airgun deals- I bought a Beeman Hurricane back in 1983 and have shot untold tens of thousands of rounds through it. I'd probably rate it as my best shooting investment ever. It's definitely time for some new springs and seals, but that's easy work.

I picked up three Predom Lucznik's (a Walter LP-53 copy) from Century for $75.00 total, shipped. They shoot great, and are surprisingly well made for Eastern Block stuff.

Gunplummer
February 19, 2014, 12:47 PM
Wonder what Lewis & Clark paid for theirs?

Jimro
February 19, 2014, 04:05 PM
I dunno, I'll put CCI Quiet-22®, 710 fps, shot out of a long barrel .22 rifle up against most air rifles in quietness. Mostly I just hear the hammer click and then the bullet smacks the target. If you shoot in your back yard, the bullet trap will make the most noise.
That's if you can actually obtain this ammo during these crazy times.

Quiet-22 is rated at 68 decibels to the shooters ear, but most of the sound energy is directed away from the shooter, out the muzzle. The trigger "click" being much closer to the ear will sound louder.

A Gamo Whisper will be 60 decibels 5 feet in front of the muzzle, but the trigger mechanism itself will register 85 decibles, which is about the same as opening a can of soda in terms of "click" sound.

Jimro

Garycw
February 19, 2014, 05:53 PM
Wonder what Lewis & Clark paid for theirs?

That would be interesting as it relates to today's value. That was a pretty hi-tech rifle for its time

darkgael
February 20, 2014, 10:33 PM
Sometimes spending a lot more for a "good" pellet gun doesn't justify the results. I regularly beat guys using $2000 Feinwerkbau air pistols at our matches using my $55 Crosman American Classic 1377C. They laugh at me pumping it between shots until I beat them (25 yards, standard NRA outdoor targets).

That doesn't work all the time - of course, you are correct about expense being wasted on some people and fine shots being able to work wonders with what might be considered less than optimal equipment.
The late Don Nygord won a National Championship shooting a Daisy such as yours.....but that was Don Nygord.
There are shooters upon whom the expense is not wasted. Feinwerkbau, Hammerli, Morini, Steyr, and Walther offer shooters more than snob appeal.
Do you regularly beat all the guys shooting high end guns? How often does your club hold real registered air pistol matches?
Air pistol is normally shot at 10 meters at the B40 target. The inner ten ring is 5mm in diameter.

fatwhiteboy
February 20, 2014, 11:53 PM
...Or, you might be a Ukrainian sniper!

JohnKSa
February 21, 2014, 12:17 AM
I buy airguns because they're inexpensive to shoot and because I can shoot them literally anywhere.

Because it's so easy and cheap to shoot my airguns, I shoot some of them more than I shoot my firearms.

I buy good quality airguns because it doesn't make sense to be spending a lot of time shooting low-quality airguns. I like my shooting to be enjoyable, and I don't get much enjoyment from poor accuracy, stiff, gritty triggers and rough, twangy internals.I regularly beat guys using $2000 Feinwerkbau air pistols at our matches using my $55 Crosman American Classic 1377C. They laugh at me pumping it between shots until I beat them (25 yards, standard NRA outdoor targets).

If you can hold it steady it shoots straight.I have a Crosman 1377 and an FWB 65.

You are correct that the 1377 is very accurate--mine is. At least it is now. I had to replace the barrel because the one that came on the gun had a large pit (about 1/8 of an inch across) inside the bore near the muzzle. I also did a considerable amount of work on the trigger because the stock trigger was not only quite heavy, but it also had a lot of creep and a gritty pull.

The plastic breech loosened up after lots of shooting and it is now held in place by a hose clamp to prevent air from escaping.

I would say that in terms of raw accuracy, my 1377 (as modified) is not far from being as accurate as my FWB 65. But I can shoot my FWB a lot more accurately for the duration of a match because I can focus more on shooting and less on pumping.

The sights are also MUCH better on the FWB than on the 1377.

Garycw
February 21, 2014, 10:57 AM
The sights are also MUCH better on the FWB than on the 1377.

Pics please!

spacecoast
February 21, 2014, 01:09 PM
You are correct that the 1377 is very accurate--mine is. At least it is now. I had to replace the barrel because the one that came on the gun had a large pit (about 1/8 of an inch across) inside the bore near the muzzle. I also did a considerable amount of work on the trigger because the stock trigger was not only quite heavy, but it also had a lot of creep and a gritty pull.


I work through the tough trigger, it's great training. My regular Bullseye gun is a DA revolver, so it's no big deal.

I'm sure I would do a little better score-wise with a high end FWB, but it's a more fun to do well with low end equipment, and easier on the wallet.

Do you regularly beat all the guys shooting high end guns? How often does your club hold real registered air pistol matches?


We shoot it with NRA outdoor targets (after the regular Bullseye match), and most of the guys are accomplished shooters. I think my high score is 378/400 at 25 yards, the record at our club match is I believe 392. There is one guy with a premium gun who usually beats me, but 6-8 others who do not. Several show up only for the air pistol match, which is held once a month, and are quite serious about it (at least as indicated by their investment).

JohnKSa
February 21, 2014, 09:19 PM
I work through the tough trigger, it's great training.It is, and I shot mine stock for some years before I did anything to it. I think that my early shooting experience, which mostly consisted of airguns with pretty rough triggers, helped me improve my technique.

But when I'm shooting for accuracy (as in a match) or for fun, I'd much rather have a nice trigger than a rough one. Since I can afford nice triggers now (or can modify them/have them modified to be nice) I do....it's a more fun to do well with low end equipment, and easier on the wallet.There is a certain appeal to demonstrating that the shooter is more important to the outcome than the equipment is. That said, you don't have to go all the way up to a FWB pistol to get a nice trigger or reduced cocking effort.

You might take a look at the Crosman 2300T. Pretty good reviews, has an adjustable trigger, decent sights & good sight radius, is CO2 powered (no pumping) and can be had for under $140 if you shop around.Pics please!I don't have any decent pics of it. But it's a stock FWB 65.

Here are links to some pics that show the sights of someone else's FWB 65.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/6759483/0193ecb40e0a9a4fd1faa90f9d140ded.jpg

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/6759483/d1a6a3bf366369c3ba2eb1f7cb6f6bda.jpg

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/6759483/d1a6a3bf366369c3ba2eb1f7cb6f6bda.jpg

The front sight width can be selected. The rear sight notch width and depth are adjustable. The rear sight elevation and windage have knobs with click adjustments.

darkgael
February 22, 2014, 06:20 AM
Another quiet backyard plinking round is a .22 Hornet case primer only, no powder, with a .22 air rifle pellet seated in the neck. This is good for about 350-400 fps with CCI small rifle primers and Crossman .22 Copperhead pellets. It's about as loud as dry firing the gun.

neat idea. I use .223 Remington cases with 209 shotgun primers. I bore out the primer pocket with a (what??) a C drill iirc and set the pellets in the neck of the case with a long finishing nail (through the enlarged primer pocket)
Makes a pellet gun out of my rifle.
Pete

Unlicensed Dremel
February 25, 2014, 12:50 AM
No way I'd spend that little - I'm saving for a $3,000 Edgun Matador!

But to answer your question:

-cheap ammo
-legal to shoot in many city limits
-cheap ammo
-quiet
-cheap ammo

Did I mention the cheap ammo? :)

scottycoyote
February 25, 2014, 03:26 PM
airguns are pretty cool, you can mod them and are great for small game. If you keep an eye out you can pick up deals, i bought my first pcp direct from walmart, benjamin discovery and the pump for $300.

ive had nice spring style air rifles but once you go pcp its hard to come back. Some of the new guns in 25 and 30 cal shoot as flat as rimfires with almost as much power.

Chris_B
February 25, 2014, 04:03 PM
When I was a kid, I had a crossman air rifle and at 33 feet I could pick off those little green army men in my backyard with it.

It was fun. Hell it would be fun right now. 300 bucks? No...but I've spentthat much money than that on a rimfire pistol people dilsike, so why should I say a 300 dollar air rifle is a no-no? I'd like to shoot one and see what it's like.

Peter M. Eick
February 25, 2014, 07:56 PM
http://eickpm.com/picts/beeman400.jpg

Heck, my Beeman 400 was $400 back in 1980. I have no idea what that would be today, a couple thousand?

Why do we buy them?

http://eickpm.com/picts/400_factory_target.jpg

Did your rifle come with a 5 shot factory target like this?

http://eickpm.com/picts/400_trigger.jpg

Did your rifle come with a 5.5 onz factory trigger? Actually I turned it up. It used to be 2 onz and that was a bit light.

http://eickpm.com/picts/400_target_092281.jpg

5 shots per bull, 10 m shot in a competition. Admittedly my best shooting ever but hey that is what precision air rifle is all about.

So why spend thousands on a precision air rifle? Because if you wanted to compete back in the day it was either the Dianawerk 75's (my Beeman 400 was a clone) or the FWB 300's. You did not win without one.

Jimro
February 25, 2014, 11:22 PM
I'd love to find a Diana 75, FWB300, or best of all a Walther LGR at some garage sale.

Still, I should pick up a few more Daisy 853's from the CMP while they are still around. They will shoot tight, and it is fun to go SSP vs. SSP with a friend.

Jimro

JohnKSa
February 25, 2014, 11:36 PM
I'd love to find a Diana 75, FWB300, or best of all a Walther LGR at some garage sale.Keep looking.

They do turn up from time to time on the used market. That's how I bought my FWB 300 some years back. In fact, one sold on ebay just a month or so ago.

B.L.E.
February 26, 2014, 06:41 AM
Peter M. Eick, or someone else who shoots competitive air rifle, what kind of backer do they use on those targets to make nice clean bullet holes instead of difficult to score bullet tears on the paper?

Jimro
February 26, 2014, 10:46 AM
what kind of backer do they use on those targets to make nice clean bullet holes instead of difficult to score bullet tears on the paper?

First off you get better holes from actual target paper targets. The paper has the fibers arranged in a manner to have nice round holes cut in it. I've been using the ISSF/NRA 10m targets from National Target. A pack of 100 is pretty cheap considering you get 12 bulls per sheet.

My last match there were no backers on the targets, they were held in place by clips and gravity. We had no issues scoring. If that doesn't work for you, double wall cardboard seems to work as a backer.

Second, you have to use wadcutter pellets, domed or pointed pellets will make ragged holes.

Jimro

seanc
February 27, 2014, 12:53 PM
I've tried heavy card stock and printed targets from my computer, but you still get tears. I use those for most of my practicing and every once in a while use the good targets to really see how tight I'm getting.

The Daisy/Avanti 753/853/953's are a bargain. Every home should have at least one :).


ETA: Peter M. Eick ---> Damn! Nice shooting.

ETA: Article evaluating Daisy 953
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/05/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro-part-1.html

Garycw
February 27, 2014, 07:09 PM
Daisy isn't a name I would associate with a quality air rifle. I've shot them plenty when I was a kid & wore a couple out

gk1
February 27, 2014, 10:00 PM
The Avanti line is definitely not a Red Ryder. While "quality" may not be the best word to describe them, they perform well above both their price and most expectations.

Garycw
February 28, 2014, 06:24 AM
I started out with the red Ryder around 6yo.and completely wore it out. When I was upgraded the following Christmas with the Winchester model 94 version, I was ready for big game haha. 55 years later.. I still have it! A little loose & beat up, but still works... Kind of. I wouldn't trade my RWS for anything. The Steoger isn't bad either, just no comparison with the RWS in quality

mapsjanhere
February 28, 2014, 09:30 AM
Just realized my RWS 48 nowadays qualifies for this thread. Short answer - because it feels like a real rifle and doesn't fall under the "no firearms in the city" rules.

DannyB1954
February 28, 2014, 06:09 PM
Pellet ammo is a lot cheaper and easier to get these days than .22lr, and the neighbors don't get bent out of shape when I set up a pellet gun range in the back yard.

Ravens have just been declared a pest in my town, so maybe I will hunt them when they are on the ground, ( in the air the pellet could still do damage to something or someone else if it went through, or I missed).

RC20
March 1, 2014, 01:37 PM
My wife is interested in a air rifle that matches the Lewis and Clark rifle ( .35 caliber or so, doesn't have to be a .5 or bigger)

No she does not want to hunt, but she wants one in that category.

What would be a good accurate one and what caliber offered in something in 60- $800 range and 50 yards?.

It wold have to have good accuracy but not match grade. Satisfaction part.

I am thinking air tank as she can't do the pump stuff but I could so would consider a pump type.

This area is not close to my expertise as is probably obvious so no problem with being educated.

B.L.E.
March 1, 2014, 02:27 PM
First off you get better holes from actual target paper targets. The paper has the fibers arranged in a manner to have nice round holes cut in it. I've been using the ISSF/NRA 10m targets from National Target. A pack of 100 is pretty cheap considering you get 12 bulls per sheet.

My last match there were no backers on the targets, they were held in place by clips and gravity. We had no issues scoring. If that doesn't work for you, double wall cardboard seems to work as a backer.

Second, you have to use wadcutter pellets, domed or pointed pellets will make ragged holes.

Jimro


Maybe the higher velocity of air rifles has something to do with it. Where I was having trouble with was air pistol, around 400 fps. Even glued to cardboard, using 3-M Super 77 aerosol contact adhesive, I would get some hard to score hits.
I finally did something completely different. I used solid steel plate for a backer. The pellets just flatten and stick where they hit leaving nice round holes. I even had a perfect double once that was easy to prove because two pellets were welded together on that hole.
I imagine that in the Olympics, they use a new target for every shot, or maybe some high tech elecronic hit scoring device.

Jimro
March 1, 2014, 04:26 PM
At the olympics they use electronic target scoring with a moving paper witness. Same as if you shoot at Camp Perry's 10m range. Use them once and you get spoiled, instant feedback, no target changes, and printable shot by shot record.

Jimro

Peter M. Eick
March 1, 2014, 06:00 PM
The backer is just hard cardboard. They were fired at 10m in 3 position. I think the best target was from Standing which was my specialty back then but to be honest it was now 34 years ago that I was shooting competitively.

I looked at the 300s that was sold last month. I decided to pass on it for various reasons. I know I am still on the hunt for a 300 or another 75 maybe.

By the way, if you believe the CPI (inflation calculator) then my gun today would have costs about $1150.

Jimro
March 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
My wife is interested in a air rifle that matches the Lewis and Clark rifle ( .35 caliber or so, doesn't have to be a .5 or bigger)

No she does not want to hunt, but she wants one in that category.

What would be a good accurate one and what caliber offered in something in 60- $800 range and 50 yards?.

It wold have to have good accuracy but not match grade. Satisfaction part.

I am thinking air tank as she can't do the pump stuff but I could so would consider a pump type.

This area is not close to my expertise as is probably obvious so no problem with being educated.

Crosman Marauder PCP in 25 caliber would be my first choice, as if she isn't hunting and you are looking for 50 yard accuracy.

If it is really a 35 caliber or bigger she wants, then I would just recommend you read the reviews between this http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Evanix_Rainstorm_II_PCP_Air_Rifle/2750/5818#Reviews and http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Sam_Yang_Recluse_Air_Rifle/2501/4996#Reviews or the sam Sam Yang with a bigger reservoir http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Sam_Yang_Recluse_Dual_Tank_Air_Rifle/2510/5008#Specifications as they seem to be the only two options in your price range.

Jimro

darkgael
March 3, 2014, 09:17 PM
Benjamin Marauder....a fine gun.
In .357, your choices are limited to Evanix and Sam Yang.
I recommend a carbon fiber tank if you go with either.
Those big bullets use a lot of air.
Keep a hand pump for back up.
Between the cost of a high pressure pump and a high pressure carbon tank....you have doubled your investment.

Pete

JohnKSa
March 3, 2014, 10:23 PM
There's an FWB 300 for sale on ebay right now. External condition looks pretty rough.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Feinwerkbau-300S-4-5mm-177-Cal-Target-Air-Rifle-/360869925852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item54058613dc

Stevie-Ray
March 4, 2014, 02:41 PM
Well, my air rifle is a Sheridan pneumatic, that I got for my birthday at 13. It is a great rifle for shooting in a basement or garage, where a firearm needs proper ventilation. It is also amazingly accurate, or rather used to be when my eyes were 13 instead of 58. It's still fun shooting off my deck, though.

I wouldn't mind having a modern one in .177 cal.

JohnKSa
March 4, 2014, 10:42 PM
Stevie-Ray,

Williams makes an aperture receiver sight (the 5D-SH model) for the Sheridan rifles. Most of the older Sheridans (maybe all of them?) are already pre-drilled for installation of the peep sight. They're a nice addition to the rifle, especially for someone whose eyes (like mine) are starting to complain about open sights.

I have one of my air rifles equipped with a Williams aperture sight and a Merit adustable aperture similar to the #4 Hunting disc in the link below. It screws into the Williams sight and allows the aperture size to be adjusted to suit the lighting conditions. In bright lighting, you can screw it down to a pinhole to improve the clarity of the target and front sight. Or in dim light, you can open it up a little--accuracy will suffer a bit but at least you'll be able to see the front sight and target.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html

If you really want to go all out, Merit even makes an aperture with a place to install a custom prescription lens.

Slopemeno
March 5, 2014, 01:23 AM
That's a pretty sleeper hunting rig. A friend of mine had one of the nickeled Sheridans set up that way, and I borrowed it frequently.

Stevie-Ray
March 7, 2014, 12:09 AM
Stevie-Ray,

Williams makes an aperture receiver sight (the 5D-SH model) for the Sheridan rifles. Most of the older Sheridans (maybe all of them?) are already pre-drilled for installation of the peep sight. They're a nice addition to the rifle, especially for someone whose eyes (like mine) are starting to complain about open sights.
Sweeet! I've always wanted to stop in to Williams Gunsight, whenever I go by it. Now, I've got the perfect reason to. Thanks, John!;)

JohnKSa
March 7, 2014, 12:26 AM
Found a picture of my Sheridan with the 5D-SH installed.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3071&d=1051498983

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3071&d=1051498983

Stevie-Ray
March 7, 2014, 12:29 AM
Very nice. Looks like just what I need, and not a bad price, either!

Peter M. Eick
March 16, 2014, 03:17 PM
I had my Sheridan Silver Streak set up just the same way. I actually took it to Williams for the install since I lived in the general area of downstate michigan.

Unfortunately, like nearly all of my guns, it had to be sold to get through my undergrad in college. Excellent gun and very fun to shoot.

Of that vintage, I only have my Diamondback and my Beeman 400 (shown above) that I would not sell (or more accurately, I graduated before I had to).

johnwilliamson062
March 16, 2014, 05:34 PM
Tempting me, but not what I want so I will wait. Seems a good deal though.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/591626/benjamin-marauder-woods-walker-pcp-air-pistol-22-caliber-pellet-bolt-action-polymer-stock-realtree-ap-camo?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Microgunner
March 16, 2014, 05:48 PM
It's a hobby. Doesn't have to make sense, just has to entrrtain the hobbyist to be valid purchase.

cslinger
March 16, 2014, 06:32 PM
It's a hobby. Doesn't have to make sense
Truer words are rarely spoken.

I enjoy my air pistols/rifles as much as my powder burners. I've been known to bring them to the range along with my "real" guns. Part of spending a few hundred or more is owing a "rifle" vs a toy so to speak. Good triggers, decent wood, ergonomics etc. these are not 50 dollar Chinese toys. These are well made, precision tools. I would argue my hw30s is a better rifle than my stock 10/22 in many ways.

Garycw
March 16, 2014, 07:02 PM
Same reason some people spend 4~$5k on a pistol.

JohnKSa
March 16, 2014, 10:36 PM
It's a hobby. Doesn't have to make sense...Good point. What's funny is that many of the people who tend think of airgun purchases as a waste of money have bought firearms that will never be used for anything other than recreation.

Stevie-Ray
March 17, 2014, 03:20 PM
Found a picture of my Sheridan with the 5D-SH installed.John, am I correct in assuming that sight is simply screwed on the left side of the bolt, where there is now, on my Blue Streak, a plate with two screws? If so, I guess mine is pre-drilled accept the new sight. Haven't talked to Williams yet.

JohnKSa
March 17, 2014, 09:57 PM
The screwholes for mounting the sight are on the right side of the receiver--opposite the plate. If the holes aren't there, your gun isn't pre-drilled for the receiver sight.

Here's a picture of a Sheridan that is pre-drilled.

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2011/12/30/263865_02_sheridan_air_rifle_640.jpg

Here's one that's not.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/405612/9299670/af157cca7d81c9ee104b457f1c6cf2e5.jpg

If it's not pre-drilled and you're close to Williams, they may handle it for you--probably worth asking them.

Model12Win
March 17, 2014, 11:27 PM
Pellet rifles offer excellent marksmanship training at a very, very low price vs. the cost of rimfire/centerfire ammunition. While they don't produce the recoil or noise of a centerfire rifle, they still develop things like stance, sight picture, breathing, etc. etc. very well. Airguns also aren't quite as loud as a rimfire rifle in most cases, though some can be fairly noisy. It all depends.

People who are buying the more expensive airguns probably just want a high quality and accurate rifle because they already shoot airguns and know how fun they can be!

stubbicatt
March 19, 2014, 07:54 AM
I bought a $500 air rifle for practice and mental conditioning. I bought it because the stock and the aperture sights make shooting it accurately easier.

Since I cannot locate 22 long rifle ammunition consistently, the PCP pellet rifle was a natural choice. I find that I shoot it more often than I thought I would. The cost of ammunition is de minimis.

Slopemeno
March 19, 2014, 03:08 PM
Sooo. Who wants to race me to Wallmart to clean out the pellet display?

Garycw
March 19, 2014, 05:33 PM
I have a cpl thousand pellets in .177 & .22. Should be close to a lifetime supply. May pick up another 500 ea. just to make sure though. Most are pointed & HP. Buy GOOD lubricated pellets. A Beemans cleaning kit is a good one time investment too. Especially for spring piston type. It comes with felt cleaning pellets and spring & chamber oils. Be sure not to mix up non flammable chamber oil with spring oil or you will get combustion and could damage something. It will also sound like a rim fire

johnwilliamson062
March 19, 2014, 08:39 PM
I have a couple thousand 22lr and I am stringently rationing it. When I get a PCP gun I suspect I will buy 10,000 or so to get started!

B.L.E.
March 19, 2014, 08:57 PM
Sooo. Who wants to race me to Wallmart to clean out the pellet display?

Please don't! That's how the run on .22 ammo started. Buy pellets if you need them but don't buy them just because you can.
Once people see empty shelves, then they buy them just because they can and a self fulfilling shortage ensues, along with conspiracy theories and stupid rumors that feed the buying frenzy further.

cslinger
March 19, 2014, 10:09 PM
I here homeland security just put in an order for 237 million .177 pellets.


I keed. I keed. :)

Jimro
March 21, 2014, 02:05 PM
Please don't! That's how the run on .22 ammo started. Buy pellets if you need them but don't buy them just because you can.
Once people see empty shelves, then they buy them just because they can and a self fulfilling shortage ensues, along with conspiracy theories and stupid rumors that feed the buying frenzy further.

Heh, use pyaramidair.com's buy 4 get 1 free and just combine shipping with targets, pellgun oil, etc, to make the cost lower. You can buy 5k of pellets really cheap that way...

No keeding ;D

Jimro

stevelyn
March 22, 2014, 02:56 AM
For those of you that have a very nice pellet rifle, can you tell me why you're spending $300+ on a pellet rifle when you can get a very nice 22LR rifle for the same $?

Because sometimes things need to die quietly and with plausible dependability.


There was an airgun article recently that addressed pest control and the safety factor of using an airgun vs rimfire in an urban/suburban environment.

A diabolo pellet is only dangerous for a couple hundred yards at best. Whereas a rimfire is dangerous within a mile or more. A pellet bounced off an object loses its energy quickly. A roundnose rimfire bullet not so much.

PHEASANTPETE
March 26, 2014, 10:49 PM
I grew up with very cold winters where the windchill could be below -60 F. Mom had a strict policy of no firearms being discharged in the house. You know how over-protective some mothers can be.;) So we had to settle for pellet guns in the back room.:mad:

My dad may of let us shoot 22's there but mom definitely would not and we had some sisters who liked to tattle as well as a younger brother (momma's boy). So we saved our pennies and got the best pump we could (a crossman). But when we grew older we wanted something better so I got a RWS 52. Still have it as well as another RWS I purchased years later.

It taught marksmanship skills at a young age and we learned the right way to handle weapons. My mom was happy when I aced shooter safety which included some adults. I got an award for having the only perfect score and moms like to think their kids are the best and will do things right.

Later in bootcamp I shot a 234 out of 250. I was asked about going to sniper school with another guy from our platoon. I had a guaranteed contract for avionics and he was guaranteed to be a grunt. He said yes I said no. I scored in the top 99% on the ASVAB and knew sniping was cool but had poor career prospects. He already had poor career prospects so he said yes. Being a grunt is respected but it does offer less civilian transferability.

So if you like to shoot indoors at home in the winter it is hard to beat a air rifle or pistol and can be a good way to teach and practice shooting skills and safety. It also does not draw the local constable when shooting outdoors in urban areas.

Garycw
March 27, 2014, 04:21 AM
Pete, sounds like you had a fun childhood( except for the -60 windchills) and a pretty cool dad too.
From the time I was about 6 till 12 years old, it was hard to find me without a air rifle or pistol in my hand. Good memories!

PHEASANTPETE
March 27, 2014, 04:40 AM
Yeah, I miss the carefree days with my pellet gun and sling shot. I wish more kids could have those memories but in many areas now I believe they may come down hard on kids with pellet guns. The libs want to weaken the future pro gun voting block. Get em out early and make it fun, America's future depends on that.