4x scope or open sights... help me decide

[steveNChunter]

I have recently come to the realization that out of my growing collection of rifles, I have seven that may see active duty during deer season. All of them have scopes. Five of them are bolt actions in at least fairly long-range calibers which I want to leave scoped. One is a T/C Impact muzzleloader. The rifle in question is a Marlin 336 chambered .35 rem. It sees alot of the thick woods tree stand hunting, with alot of shots taken at short range in low light conditions at dawn or dusk when the deer often like to move.

I have never deer hunted with open sights before. Will I regret it if I take the scope off?

[jmr40]

4X is too much magnification. I'd put a 1-4X20mm on it with a 2-7X32 as a possibility. On 1X it is faster for close shots than irons. On 3X or 4X it has all the magnification you will ever need.

[PawPaw]

I have never deer hunted with open sights before. Will I regret it if I take the scope off?

I have that same rifle, in .35 Remington. I hunted with it for about 10 years before I scoped it. It now wears a 2.5X fixed scope, and it's been on the rifle for almost 20 years. That rifle accounted for deer both with and without that scope, but I feel better with the scope on it.

I've got two Win94s that have Williams FP receiver sights and they're both very good in the deer woods. Short answer? Your choice. No one but you can make that decision.

[Doyle]

I don't know how old you are not but I guarantee you that eyesight doesn't get better as you age. I'm 54 and only wear cheater glasses for reading but I'm finding it very hard to use iron sights.

For a 336 scope, look at a Leupold VXII 2-7. It is the shortest and lightest scope in its class. It would balance on that rifle better than most fixed power scopes plus give you some better flexability.

[Mobuck]

In 2010 a friend and I drew muzzleloader cow elk licenses in Colorado. Of course that wonderful state demands open sights only on ML rifles. My groups opened up 2X and even on an elk, my max range dropped by 1/3. Here in MO, the only rifle I hunt with using open sights is one of my 94 Trappers in 44 mag. The 100-125 yard range of that combo is suitable for open sights.

[Art Eatman]

In low light, a scope lets you determine if it's a good buck or just a so-so buck. It also tells you if that deer is actually some fella who's not where he belongs. Kind of a bummer to make a perfect shot on the white spot and then find out it was a nephew's tee-shirt, like one guy did.

A 4X at ten feet is too much magnification, but anything beyond fifteen or twenty yards is fine.

[MTSCMike]

Since taking up 3-gun competition I have learned to love the 1-4X scopes with an illuminated reticle (mine is a heavy circle with a 1MOA center dot). In bright daylight it is a black reticle and in low light it glows red. At 1x it shoots just like open sights (only better) and at 4x I can get fairly precise at 200 yards. Lots to love about the little variables.

[steveNChunter]

If I do leave a scope on it I like the idea of switching to a 1-4x as opposed to the 4x32 it wears now. I am still also considering trying the open sights first at least on some paper targets to see how accurate I am with it. I kinda just want to have one rifle that isn't scoped for variety's sake. If I can still group "minute of vitals" out to about 75 yards then I'd be confident enough with it to take it hunting. As I said before this rifle wont see any open fields or long range shots. I'll choose from a .25-06, two 6mm's, .243, or 8x57 for those hunts.

[Geezerbiker]

How about a third option, a peep sight. I've put peeps on 2 of my rifles now and I love them on both. I'm likely to put them on at least one more rifle.

I'm 55 and my near vision is lame without my bifocals. I'm supposed to have trifocals but they drive me nuts. I can't hit worth crap with open sights but with peeps, it's a whole different situation. My only regret is not trying peeps sooner...

Tony

[WNY_Whitetailer]

4X is too much magnification. I'd put a 1-4X20mm on it with a 2-7X32 as a possibility. On 1X it is faster for close shots than irons. On 3X or 4X it has all the magnification you will ever need.
I agree with this...

[steveNChunter]

If I went with the peep sights, how do they mount on the gun? Can I remove my factory sights and put the peep sights in their place or is there drilling involved?

[PawPaw]

If I went with the peep sights, how do they mount on the gun? Can I remove my factory sights and put the peep sights in their place or is there drilling involved?

The Marlin 336 is already drilled for receiver sights. (every one I've ever seen is already drilled and tapped for receiver sights.) Look on the left side of the receiver, toward the rear. You should see two small holes with blind screws. Those are the holes for a receiver sight. WIlliams and Lyman sights are built to mount on those holes.

If those two holes aren't there, then you've got the four holes on top the receiver, where you mount scope bases. The rear two holes will also mount a receiver sight. You may also have two holes in the upper tang. Those holes (present on some older rifles) are for a Marbles-type sight.

I'd bet that your rifle is already set up for a peep sight. All you have to do is choose which one. Personally, I like the Williams FP sight (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/968159/williams-fp-336-receiver-peep-sight-marlin-centerfire-lever-actions-aluminum-black).

[JerryM]

Go for a low power scope of 2.5x or lower. A scope helps identify deer in the brush, and sure makes a difference for old eyes also.
If your eyes are good a receiver sight is an option, but a scope is better.
Jerry

[steveNChunter]

I like that Williams sight. There's also a model that comes with a fiber optic front sight. That would be nice.

[Geezerbiker]

You can get that front sight but I don't know if they're sold as a set. I have an old Redfield peep on my lever gun and it made it shoot like a whole new rifle. It tightened my groups by about 400%...

I put the target knob version of the Williams peep on my .45-70 single shot and I love it too. I don't have anything to compare it to on this rifle since I mounted the sight first thing after buying the rifle.

Tony

[Backwoodsboy]

I agree with pawpaw on this one. A 2.5x should be about perfect for your situation. I also think a 4x would be too much.

[Nathan]

I prefer a straight red dot for a 0-100 yard gun where the most likely shot is under 50 yards.

I like a 1-4x if the most likely shot is over 50.

If every shot is >25 yards, a 4x is fine.

Does this make sense?

In my life, my AR wears a 1-4x, but it could be slightly better served by a good 2-7x or 2-8x as most shots are over 15 yards.

[22-rimfire]

Art said....In low light, a scope lets you determine if it's a good buck or just a so-so buck. It also tells you if that deer is actually some fella who's not where he belongs. Kind of a bummer to make a perfect shot on the white spot and then find out it was a nephew's tee-shirt, like one guy did.

A 4X at ten feet is too much magnification, but anything beyond fifteen or twenty yards is fine.

Pretty much the way I feel. I feel if you are comfortable with scopes, the 4x is optiminal for short range woods hunting for deer. I have a 3-9x on my .270 and usually leave it set at 4x. At 4x, I can take a jump shot if I really have to, but prefer not to take that kind of shot.

[mehavey]

For the type of hunting & weapon described by the OP, I recommend a Leupold Mark AR 1-4X.

Start/Leave it on 1.5X (it tracks quickly/cleans things up)
Move to 4 if needed.

[TB9]

use and keep both on youre rifle 1-4 scope and open sights . all my rifles have iron sights some have scopes also more are getting scopes now days as i get older my favorite scope runs 2.5x on my .50 inline. i have a 6.5x55 swede carbine that my dad sported back in the mid 60's that wears a vintage weaver 4x scope . its a 94/14 of all guns but its in a nice full length stock its a real beauty like a ruger international carbine. my dad was real talented.

[dgludwig]

I much prefer having a good receiver/peep sight on a carbine like the Marlin Model 336, especially when the shots are generally taken at relatively close ranges in heavy cover. The peep sight is way quicker to get a good sight picture with than "factory irons" are and the superb balance and carrying properties of a carbine like the Marlin or a Winchester Model 94 is not adversely affected with a top-heavy, "in the way" scope.

[kahrguy]

steve You should deside how good your eye sight is now and will be in the future. Not how we feel about a no-optic or optics.

I figured out early on I coud out pick shot with a scope I could not pick with open sights in thick woods even at closer ranges.

I would much rather have some power to dail in to make a iffy shot work to my favor than let it pass because of not seeing clearly with open sights thru a thick bottom. And brush buster cartidges are not real ether.

I have shot deer in some very thick swamps and hard wood bottoms with a scope out to 175 yards and so close in a thick wooded bottoms I had to watch a deer to see what it was and then find that hole to shot thru. I could not have been done some of those shots ethicaly with open sights too.

My in-line bp and slug gun wears a 3-12 as 225yard shots are very practical with time on the range. Nice to have that last look before pulling the trigger.

Nothing worse than seeing a doe for the freezer and find a spike when you get to it cause you could not get a good enough look. Own good binos too. I would pick a 1-4 or 2-7 scope for that 35 rem .

My thick woods rifle is a 308 and my scope from day one in 1976 has been a 2-10 scope . Stays on 2 power in the bottoms but has been cranked up for a rat hole shot thru the branches too.

[Boomer58cal]

I run a 3-9x40 Redfield on both my 94 win and my SkS and neither feel overpowered. I ran a 2-7 for years but I like the 3-9 much better. That's just me though. No one can tell you what works best for you. IMHO a scope gives you too many advantages to pass up. The only time irons are better are when ranges are measured in feet instead of yards. I also feel a good scope will give you an advantage is in low light situations and and in distinguishing hard to see targets. Most animals don't have a white 3 by 3 target with a big spot in the middle strapped to their side.


This video covers most pros and cons of a scope
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YmIioKk9_E&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Boomer

[ChasingWhitetail91]

I prefer open sights on my 760 in .06. For heavy brush/ swamp hunting where my shots are 150 yrds. and closer I never use a scope. There's always the chance of bumping it getting into your stand and I find it difficult to locate my target through the brush. Open sights on the other hand offer a quicker follow up shot if need be and faster targeting in my opinion. I like to stay out till dark and shooting through a scope right before dark is next to impossible for me.

[Boomer58cal]

A quality scope with quality lenses will give you near night vision. With my Nikon Monarch 3 (4-16x50) you can almost see in the dark. Better than my eye's past 25yrds anyway. You don't get that from a cheap scope. Illuminated scopes also help in that area, but I'm not big on them myself. Where I live in OreGun, you have either deep forest and brush, open fields or a mix of both. For me a scopes added versatility easily out ways they're disadvantages.


Boomer

[btmj]

On my wife's Marlin 336 (which I also hunt with), I put a Leupold FX-II 2.5x20 Ultralight fixed power scope. Total weight of scope, rings, and bases is 9.5 ounces. I don't think you can get a lighter scope. I am exceedingly pleased with this scope. Very fast on target, lots of eye relief. 2.5X is plenty of magnification for a woods gun. I sighted it in at 100 yards, and I have no problem popping soda cans at 150 yards (with about 6 inches of hold over).

Jim

[bamaranger]

Back in the day, if somebody was going to mount a scope, almost everybody ran a fixed 4x on a deer rifle, Marlin 30-30's, .35's, bolt '06, you name it, a fixed 4x was thought just fine. I'd have to say it is not to much magnification.

You end up in a situation where you are counting antler points as on a WMA, or trying to find a whole in the brush to slip a bullet, and the extra magnification will be useful. Too, I can tell you that it will work just fine on moving deer in the woods.

If you wonder about this, I'd hazard that lots of .22's have fixed 4x's on them, and get used on all sorts of targets, largish and small, moving and not, out to 100 yds and nobody thinks it odd.

Finally, despite the advance of modern scopes, I'd pick a fixed power rig over a variable based on simplicity and theoretical durability.