Im turning 18 this summer and am saving up to buy a AK-47 any Advice

[Dboy007]

Hi nice too meet everyone I'm Demetrius soon I am turning 18 and I would like to get an AK-47 now people think I'm crazy because I want to buy one but I have really wanted one for a while and decided to save up I wanted to know if anyone has so advice to pass on and all so I wanted to know if I could buy a AK 47 online at 18 and go to my gun shop to pick it up.

[tahunua001]

yes you can but you have to find a local, federally licensed dealer and have them fax or email a copy of their license to the online dealer before buying. then you will have to have the local company perform a NICS background check and pay for the FFL transfer fee.

as for AK specific info here's the same advice I gave to another member on another thread:
right now is a horrible time to buy an AK, AR or just about any other semi automatic rifle based on a military design. with all the turmoil in the senate and congress and just about everywhere else, there has been so much panic that these guns have all flown off the shelves and some companies are backordered into the middle of next year(sadly this is not an exaggeration) . a lot of these were purchased by profiteers looking to make a quick buck by buying low and reselling insanely high. most of what you'll find are incredibly overpriced. 6 months ago Romanian Wasr10/63s which were the cheapest of the cheap were selling for $650 on up, now they're asking over $1000 which is a good step down from the $1300 they were averaging two months ago so it's getting better but still not a great time.

wasr10/63s tend to have quality control issues including magazine wobble which can cause serious problems with jamming unless you buy the slightly larger plastic magazines. they also tend to have canted front sights making it difficult to sight in properly. those are the major issues, another minor problem is some of them tend to have issues with chronic rust, you have to clean them all the freaking time.

I used to own a wasr and sold it, just couldn't convince myself to like that piece of...er...stuff. I finally sold it, about 3 months later my brother also sold his wasr, both of them had all the of problems that I listed.

a better and cheaper option you could try is the SKS, many can be found for less than $300 and in my personal experience is a far superior design in almost every category except ammo capacity.

[tuck2]

Think about getting a semi auto Ruger 10-22 T 22 rimfire rifle. Mount a scope on it. Then learn how to shoot it at 50 yards while, prone, sitting, knelling and standing . The accurate 10-22 is more fun to shoot and 22 ammo cost less.

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to TFL, Demetrius!

Also be aware that you'll need to comply with both state and federal law in purchasing, owning, and possessing a firearm. Be sure to consult both. If you have any specific questions, we have a Law & Civil Rights forum where you can ask.

[Justice06RR]

Welcome to the forum and I'm glad to hear your interest in firearms.

The AK is one of the most rugged and reliable platforms out there and is quite fun to shoot. If you are able to find one locally, try that also before buying online. It will lessen the hassle of shipping and going through an FFL/dealer.

My local gun stores have AK's in stock now for around $800. I know that is somewhat pricey but welcome to the world of guns; it is not cheap.

I know many people will steer you away from WASR 10's for a reason, but they are one of the cheaper and more affordable ones. I got lucky with mine and got it used for around $500 and don't have any of the sighting or mag wobble issues.

Good luck in your search.

[-Xero-]

Good luck finding one in today's market. They're being hoarded.

I purchased a Romanian SAR 1 -- The AWB version of the AK (no bayo lug) -- back about 2001. As I remember, the cost was circa $350. I purchased two cases, 1,000 rds each, of Wolf (Commercial Russian) ammo at $85 per case.

A fast/dirty search online today shows two things. You can't find one, and if you can find one the prices are astronomical. Ammo cost is astronomical.

Used to be a flood of Romanian AK's on the market. Romanian is a decent version, well made, not spiked in price like a Russian, nor a cheapo Chinese knock-off like Norinco.

Not intending to kick dirt into your campfire, but the market is crazy right now because our duly elected officials are crazy.

[Saltydog235]

Advice - wait until all the panic crap dies down, all you are going to do right now is pay through the nose for junk and really pay through the nose for something decent.

I'd also wait for the AR's to come back down in price and get one of those over an AK.

[tahunua001]

I agree with salty dog, the AR is a much more refined design, easier to field strip and clean/reassemble, parts are pretty easy to find if something breaks, and are chambered in a flatter shooting, more inherently accurate cartridge.

as I stated in my first post I had an AK for 3 years before I finally got fed up with it and sold it and my brother soon followed suit. both of us still own a pair of AR15s each. unless you go with a specialty caliber it's pretty easy to find an AR for cheaper than an AK as well.

you also have a very large number of calibers open to you in AR15s while AKs are pretty much just in 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and 223(some 12 gauge and 308 exceptions but that's about it).
I own an AR15 in 5.56 Nato and one in 9mm Nato. the brother owns one in 5.56 and one in 7.62x39(same as the AK). other common and popular calibers are
22 long rifle
5.45x39
5.7x28 FN Herstal(the same as the PS90 sub machinegun)
6x45
6.5 grendel
6.8spc
300 blackout
300 whisper
300 fireball(lots of 300s)
7.62x40(I think also known as 30 wilson)
450 bushmaster
458 socom
50 beowolf
and a lot of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

[Microgunner]

Check your local laws.
Here in Hillsborough County Florida you must be 21 to purchase any long arm with a pistol grip, that is, one that is seperate from the butt stock or not attached to a butt stock at the bottom of the grip.
This would include cruiser shotguns.

[Dboy007]

Thanks for everyone's advice it's really helping me in my decision on what gun to buy what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47 also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet

[jimbob86]

Thanks for everyone's advice it's really helping me in my decision on what gun to buy what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47

I'd avoid steel jacketed ammo - most of the cheap military surplus is steel jacketed...... check it with a magnet. Long term, it can wear the barrel excessively. If you don't mind rebarreling, then shoot whatever.....just clean the gun after shooting it, as "corrosive" milsurp ammo can do bad thing to a barrel in a short amount of time....

also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet

Bigger and stronger ....... two different cats, there..... The standard loading for the 7.62x39 cartridge (the standard AK-47 round) is a 123 grain (1 grain = 1/7000th of a pound) bullet @2,400 feet per second ....... the standard .223 cartridge for the AR was a 55 grain bullet @ 3,100 feet a second.

If you do the math,

E= m(v squared)

where "m" is mass, and "v" is velocity, you will find that the little 55 gr bullet, though less than 1/2 the weight of the 123 grain bullet, has more energy at the muzzle ..... because it is going much faster..... yet being by being lighter, it does not penetrate as well ..... so stronger? Yes and no.

Both cartridges develop more than 1,000 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, so I doubt very much that anything short of a moose or a stack of bricks could tell the difference between being shot with either one .... think of it this way: The AK round would be a Chevette doing 50, and AR round a Yaris doing 80 ...... you don't want to get hit by either one.

[the rifleer]

Steel ammo is fine for an ak and even a cheap ar. Im not trying to start a debate, but steel ammo is made for ak's, litterally.

[jimbob86]

Folks run that steel crap through their AK's and then go on about a 4MOA AK is a good as it gets ......

Corn pone was made to be eaten ....that doesn't mean a diet of it will make you perform well.

[tahunua001]

what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47
different bullets have different uses.
full metal jackets(also referred to as ball ammo) are generally used by military as they are easier to manufacture and a treat signed long ago pretty much made it illegal for militaries to make ammo designed to create gruesome injuries. it's normally the cheapest stuff around and is good enough for punching holes in paper but not much else.
then you have soft point, hollow hollow point and polymer tipped ammo designed to fragment, expand and otherwise create as much damage as possible. these are usually used as hunting ammunition.

depending on what you intend to do with the ammo is what determines the bullets used.


also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet
I might be over simplifying here but the AK47 generally uses a 30 caliber round(3/tenths of an inch in diameter) while the AR15 normally uses a 22 caliber bullet(2.2 tenths of an inch in diameter). one advantage of the wider diameter is that the bullet can also have greater mass in the same length bullets. the average AR15 bullet is 55grains while the AK averages 123grains.

however the AR offers greater velocity and the lighter, thinner bullet loses velocity slower and is affected less by wind than the fatter, heavier and slower AK bullet. as a side effect the AR15 maintains more energy(calculated in pounds per foot or FTLBs) over greater distance.

at point blank range the 7.62x39mm(AK47) does have more energy than the 5.56x45mm(AR15) but over distance the 5.56 takes the lead.

[Saltydog235]

Thanks for everyone's advice it's really helping me in my decision on what gun to buy what kind of bullets do you recommend for the AR and ak-47 also is the ak-47s bullet bigger and stronger then the AR's bullet


OK, time for some more advice. You need to read, research, understand and know what you are getting before you purchase a gun. That means loads, ballistics and all the associated things that go with gun ownership. Owning a gun isn't HALO or World Of Warcraft son, it serious business. For the time being, save your money, get educated and then buy a decent weapon that you have trained and studied about.

[tahunua001]

and another point goes to saltydog.
libraries, though they may seem antiquated and outdated given the introduction of the internet still have a great amount of knowledge that they can bestow.
firearms safety, basic nomenclature, proper technique, all should be at least studied before you ever touch a gun, no less attempt to fire it.

[jimbob86]

Owning a gun isn't HALO or World Of Warcraft son, it serious business. For the time being, save your money, get educated and then buy a decent weapon that you have trained and studied about.

While knoledge is a Good Thing, I don't think talking down to a new shooter is.

That man is not your "son".

All of us started out knowing nothing. Some of us started learning sooner than others. Some never will.

Help the man with what you know. Don't discourage him from excercising his God Given Rights.

[Saltydog235]

In no way am I advocating or talking down to him. He's not 18 yet and is still a kid whether you or anyone wants to believe or address it. I would love for him to own a gun and become involved in the shooting community especially in light of how we are portrayed by the mass media. That right, requires maturity, understanding and knowledge of what you are doing, something that hasn't come across in the lines of inquiry to date. Just being old enough to buy a firearm doesn't mean you should, at least not until you have the proper training and confidence to do it safely.

Blindly encouraging him to go out and buy X,Y or Z just because he's had a birthday, its his right and bringing another into the fold is irresponsible. Making sure that he has to tools and guidance to make an informed decision so he is responsible is the only way to proceed.

Nothing I told him was in any way meant to be derogatory, even the "son" remark. I'm 40 and been involved with guns all my walking life, he's 17 with zero knowledge. It was meant to express the sincerity of my remarks, nothing more, nothing less.

[Spats McGee]

Dboy007, it does sound like you still need quite a bit of information on both firearm selection and other issues. By all means, make yourself at home here at TFL. We've got various forums on both the firearms issues, the legal issues, and just about everything else. Ask questions. We may not have all the answers, but I'll promise you that we have some of them.

[jimbob86]

Salty, IME the way to get a male teenager to act like a man is to treat him as you (a man) would expect to be treated.

Though I'm just a tad older than you, I would not cotton to being called "son" by anyone who was not my parent, or acting in that capacity..... I doubt you would, either.

[Saltydog235]

I call my 17yo nephew and young men in the youth department at my Church "son" all the time. Nothing derogatory about it, means I sincerely care about your decisions. Same thing here. Lets not split hairs on a mundane issue.

Simple put from the questions, line of inquiry and responses he is trying to make a decision to buy, a potentially deadly tool in the wrong hands, a gun without the proper knowledge of his potential purchase. I and it looks like others are beginning to advocate that he now be so hasty or in a hurry to make a mistake and instead learn more about his proposed purchase.

I don't know much about an AK and don't really care too. I thought about buying one at one point but will instead just buy an AR config that works with the 7.62X39 chambering. I do however know about safety and teaching the unfamiliar how to safely and responsibly deal with a firearm.

[tahunua001]

though no offense may have been intended "son" has been used as a derogatory term in the past and without the benefit of seeing your expression and hearing the tone of your voice it is entirely possible that it could be taken the wrong way.

I agree with you that gun ownership is a large responsibility and educating yourself beforehand does a great deal to empower a first time gun buyer and helps raise a red flag on unscrupulous salesmen that are looking to earn a quick buck by preying on an uneducated young man however there is a time and a place for everything and pushing one topic while another is being discussed may serve to intimidate or confuse rather than the intended purpose of helping.

[Saltydog235]

As I said, nothing derogatory was meant by it. I simple would hate to see him make a mistake because of a want and end up with an inferior product. Its his money and he is free to spend it as he sees fit. However when he becomes a firearm owner, then his decision is a direct reflection on all the rest of us in this day and age, the it is all of our responsibility to steer him in the right direction. He came to this board for advice, admittedly I don't have much to offer on the AK but I do on responsible gun ownership.

I guess your location might have something to do with whether or not the term "son" is an insult. Where I am, it isn't. "Boy" on the other hand is a slap in the face to any male over a certain age.

I'm not trying to hurt feelings or turn the young man off, just convey a sense of responsibility to him. We aren't talking about a car stereo or a pair of shoes here, were talking about a gun. In fact we are talking about one of the guns getting a ton of bad press these days.

[Baba Louie]

Dboy007
Welcome to TFL first off. Second... slow down a tad, young feller. Take a breath. Use a comma or a period once in a while. :D

Get to the library and check out CJ Chivers book The Gun

http://cjchivers.com/aboutthegun

Read up a bit.

Start buying magazines now!!!(snicker... if and when you can find any) Ammo too (snicker, snort... when you can find any) :p

THEN, once the panic buying is over and you have saved up tons of money, have read up a lot and now own a few magazines and a few hundred rounds of ammunition, look up Saiga, Arsenal and AMD65s, heck even a WASR or PAP.

You need to decide now... 7.62x39 or the skinny russian 5.45x39 in your AK? This will be a constraint you need to determine. Hole size making devices you want to send downrange.

Point to ponder. SKS, cheaper than most AKs, same round as the AK (only in 7.62, not in 5.45) install Tech Sights... shoot an Appleseed or two. Keep saving for that AK (Arsenal converted Saiga).

Ah to be almost 18 soon... again. Lucky you sir. I do recommend Chiver's book and his blog. Nice punctuation he uses. ;)

Hopefully you and/or your parental figures have a friend or three who own an AK or two to take out and "familiarize" yourself with? Hopefully?

[stubbicatt]

To OP. Maybe try a few rifles out before settling on one in particular. Don't let the so called knowledge thrown at you in this thread be your end, only where you begin. Cull through the remarks and nonsense to pick out what to you makes sense.

If the market were its usual predictable self I would tell you to buy "X" rifle and see if you like it, if you don't, you can always sell it for near what you paid for it and buy something else, but today's market is pretty inflated and uncertain.

Depending on what uses you have in mind there are a number of rifles which will suit you well. Perhaps start there, being honest with yourself about your legitimate uses. Once you have those nailed down, there will be a tool that will do most of them well, then you have determined which tool to get.

Good luck and welcome aboard.

[Rifleman1952]

In my humble opinion, Arsenal Inc offers the best AK 47 for the money. If you can afford to get one with a milled receiver, that is the direction I would go. I own one and of all the firearms I own, it is my favorite. The only drawback right now is the availability of 7.62X39 ammo.

Of course you can get an SKS for about half to one third the cost of an Arsenal, and as a first gun (and possessing limited funds), the SKS is hard to beat. But again, the problem right now is the availability of 7.62x39 ammo.

Now, might be the time to get a good bolt action rifle, in a more traditional hunting round of .243, 22-250 or .270. Lots of rounds, in these three calibers, are available at all of my local sporting goods scores.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/

[dakota.potts]

I'm also turning 18 in August. I see many kids my age who want to get into guns because of video games and movies. I also see many kids who have a legitimate interest but outside of these media nobody has ever taken the time to educate them. Plus, what is America if we can't enjoy the decision to indiscriminately buy an AK when we turn of legal age? haha

For the reference, dboy, as the mods around here are fond of saying, we must be ambassadors. This means being educated and well-spoken. Simply buying a rifle because it's got a "stronger round" and fires from an assault weapon type rifle may not present a good image to anti-gunners. Instead, figure out what you want. Do you want a range toy? An accurate AK that won't jam in any caliber should do that. Do you want something intimidating to whip out if somebody breaks into your house? If so, a shotgun would be a cheaper option, but if an assault weapon type is what you want you will ultimately buy one regardless.

As far as picking a rifle: Go to a gun store and ask to handle a few rifles. Tell them you are about to turn 18 and want to get a feel for different rifles so you know what to save up for. Get their FFL info while there so you can have the rifle shipped to them when you want to buy (this will probably make them more amenable). Try The AK-47 and 74 if they have it. Also try different AR-15's. Learn about your different ammo types. Ask them for their experiences. 5.56 mm is standard for an AR-15. Light recoil and easy to manage. AKs use 7.62 X39mm ammo or 5.45 X 39mm ammo. A 7.62 will kick more and could cause you to have bad shooting habits. There are also other rounds like .308 (7.62X51mm) which is used in hunting and "sniper rifles". It has a lot of kick but can shoot over 1000 yards in the right hand. There's Remington 6.8, 6.5, even a .50 Beowulf if that's what you want to get into.

Why don't you let us know what you're planning to use it for and maybe we can help a little more.

[tahunua001]

very good advice dakota.potts.
however a word of warning, a lot of FFLs are leery about floating too many copies of their license so they will either only give their information to other FFLs or will only give it out once a deal is already being negotiated. letting them know you want to work with them as much as possible is a good thing that can carry over into personal friendships and a good educational education.

[johnwilliamson062]

My first gun was a Walther P22.
Although the tone may not be the best, the above advice that you get some time on the range before buying might not be too bad. I know from experience.
Ok Ok, the P22 wasn't really all that bad.

If you want an "AK" style rifle to shoot at the range, look at one of the 22lr versions. WASR22, GSG, etc. Probably cheaper, especially right now, and even if it ends up not being exactly what you wanted it will still be fun to go to the range and shoot cheap 22LR out of.

Don't use bales of wet hay, grass clippings, particle board, or anything similar as a backstop.

[Picher]

You're "young" in gun-ownership, so are looking at the glitzy guns that shoot a lot of ammo in a short time. They're also very pricey these days and ammo is pretty scarce and may be for a while.

If I were starting over, I'd strongly consider a bolt-action in .22-250 with a medium-powered variable scope (3-9X). You'll love shooting the low-recoiling, but quite impressive, flat-shooting and accurate cartridge and ammo is more readily available than for primarily semi-auto calibers.

I've had .22-250s and used them for target shooting, varmint and deer hunting. It's really amazing to take one to the range and make 5/8" groups at 200 yards, then go out woodchuck hunting and shoot them at impressive distances from different positions, including offhand, prone with bipod, and sitting. A 55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 3,650 is quite impressive on all kinds of targets!!! Mine won many paper-target turkey shoots too.

[Erno86]

Demetrius - An AK/AKM 47's accuracy is "good enough for government work." The cinder block breaking capabilities of the 7.62X39 round, is superior to that of the 5.56X45 round.

You can jam the AK47/AK74's...since I've jammed both of mine twice, by double shortstroking the charging handle twice --- which leaves a live round stuck in the receiver behind the trigger group --- that causes the charging handle/bolt carrier to freeze up --- the only remedy is to field strip the gun, and remove the stuck live round.

I would not buy a Polish Tantal AK74, because Century's barrel metal is known to be rather soft that is easily worn out. Green Mountain...has proposed to make new barrels for the Tantal.

I traded my Tantal...and bought a Saiga AKM74, that comes with a modified forearm and a modified bolt hold open button on the upper right rear side of the trigger guard. It is a very fast shooter.


If the UN gun ban goes into effect {I'm assuming that it won't}...it might nix your chance of getting an AK --- so I would advise you to buy an AK at all costs --- while you still have the time.


Cheers,

Erno86

[JKHolman]

DBoy007,
welcome aboard. If you are asking about an AK-47, forget what some are telling you about AR-15's. If it is an AK, then get an AK.
As to those telling you that now is not the time to buy military type semi-automatic rifles & carbines, they are correct. Prices are outrageous. Wait for things to calm down (may take awhile).
Here is my small contribution: I have an AKM. Most of what people refer to as an AK-47 are actually AKM's. This makes a difference to me because if I were looking for and asking for an AK-47 I would not settle for an AKM. Do they operate the same? Yes. Are they the same? Yes and no. Make sure you research the history and design of the Kalashnikov rifle so that you gain a better understanding about what you are shopping for.
It is more than just semantics for me. When I spoke to the seller on the telephone about the rifle he was advertising on the trading post (five years ago, about), I specifically told him I wanted an AKM (most people do not care). He backtracked and owned to me that his was not an AK-47, but an AKM. I bought it at his asking price of $350 (the good ole days).
I say this because to my way of thinking an actual AK-47 would be worth more than an AKM because they are fewer in number. By the way, my AKM is of Polish manufacture.
DBoy007, there are people here who know much more about this firearm than I do (I hardly fire mine; will not sell it). It is a fine weapon and you will like it alot, especially when the ammunition prices for it get back to normal. I just want you to be aware of the real differences in the two models of the same rifle and you get what you really want. The AR-15 is a fine rifle, but you sound like you really want a Kalashnikov.
Listen to the guys on these forums who know their stuff and do your homework.
Good luck.
- JKHolman

[tahunua001]

JK Holman,
I'm afraid that you are offering two conflicting pieces of advice.
1. don't listen to the guys telling you to buy an AR15.
2. listen the the members here that know more about the subject than I do.

many of the members suggesting other models have a fairly acceptable level of experience with both models to offer an educated referral. those that are suggesting other models like 22lrs, SKS, and AR15s are doing so because of personal experience and are making suggestions based on what they see as the necessities of a first time gun buyer.

these models are all easier to maintain and aside from the SKS all have lighter recoil which helps keep the new owner from developing a flinch. buying a gun just because you want it is a horrible idea so several reasons. educating yourself on what features you like and then picking a design that best fits those aesthetics is how you buy a gun that you love.

I wanted an AK more than anything a few years back, there was no deterring me so I bought one. a AKM for $800 just after the 09 election, didn't matter to me, I was in the military and had guaranteed paychecks it was no biggy. but once I actually held it, shot it, and having to clean it ever month regardless of shooting because of rust buildup I started to seriously regret buying it. I spent 3 years trying to get it to a point where I was happy with it aesthetically and practically and finally sold it at a loss, I have never once suffered sellers remorse and it is the only gun I've sold or traded away that I haven't had remorse over losing. I can seriously say that keeping your options open is a wise decision for a new gun buyer that wants to be satisfied with his first purchase. the last thing you want is to get stuck with a POS just because it's what you thought you wanted.