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Sidewinder600
January 31, 2010, 09:48 AM
Hey all,
New guy here, actually started poking through the forums after getting a new Beretta M9A1, but now I have a new dilemma. On my last trip to the range I decided I wanted a .22 after firing another guy's Ruger MkII, but leaning toward a rifle at this point. Plus when I come home after shooting the Beretta, the Secretary of Our Treasury has issues with me burning through a few hundred rounds of 9mm per sitting on a regular basis... :rolleyes:
For essentially the same price, which would you guys recommend: a CZ 452 Lux or a Savage MkII BTVSS? Both rifles are $379 but with the CZ I'd also get my 5% range discount, so the CZ would actually end up being a little cheaper. The Savage is in stock at another local store and comes with a scope, presumably sighted in from the factory. The CZ is used-but-unfired at the range store, not a scratch on the thing, ironically sitting next to an identical new model for $75 or so more.
My main considerations are accuracy and build quality. The CZ feels like a real rifle, just with a smaller bore. Didn't get quite as good a feeling from the Savage, I think mostly because of the stock. How does the accuracy compare between the two? Is it enough to take the Savage over the CZ? Or would the price make up for that? Anything else I'm not considering?

Pahoo
January 31, 2010, 10:50 AM
Given all the conditions you have listed, "This time" I would recommend the CZ. However, I would go with the American as opposed to the Lux, if that is still in your price range. I own or have owned both. I would put my BTVS up against any CZ452. Both are tack drivers especially after a littel bit of tuning. Remenber that you can hunt with the American but almost impractical with the BTVS. (JMHO) ... ;)


Be Safe !!!

roc1
January 31, 2010, 10:52 AM
I would definitely go with the CZ. I love my 452 it feels like my CZ 550 243. I also have a Brno it is a great rifle the smoothest action for a bolt action 22lr. The Savage is a good gun but it aint no CZ. I love my Savage 22-250 but rimfires are different. The higher end Savages like the Ruger 77/22 are great rifles.I do not think for the dollar you can beat the CZ.I put a Nikon Buckmaster on mine and it is deadly.I like it because it feels like the big gun and you stay in practice with it like it is your deer rifle. This is another benefit besides the great accuracy and price.
Hope this helps you will not be disappointed in the CZ
roc1

IZZY
January 31, 2010, 12:39 PM
CZ no doubt.

M_E_
January 31, 2010, 06:19 PM
Cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz cz

Sidewinder600
January 31, 2010, 06:29 PM
Ok, so I found out it's actually a Special instead of a Lux. Is $380 still reasonable for used-but-unfired?

Baker6x6
January 31, 2010, 10:15 PM
I have to "buck the trend" here.. and say your best BFB will be with the Savage.
The Mark II's are amazingly accurate... One review (Outdoor Life)stated the Mark II- "proved to be not just the most accurate rimfire we tested this year, but the most accurate rimfire we've ever tested, including some high-dollar rifles of exalted European origin.".
They gave the Mark II the Editor's Choice Award..

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/gear/shooting/2008/06/gun-test-08?photo=6

The Accu-Trigger (while not perfect) will save you $100 changing the CZ's trigger to an SSS. Also- The CZ doesn't have the SS Barrel. So you aren't comparing apple-apples.

However- between the (2) choices you have listed.. that is NOT the Mark II I would buy (You aren't too keen on the stock). The scope (if factory) is a fair scope at best (Simmons?).. So, if accuracy is what you are looking for... buy just the bare rifle with a normal stock(Mark II BV- $271.00).. and add a better optic. You will be below the CZ-price (especially if you get a Steel-heavy-Barrel Mark II).... and then add a descent optic.

22-rimfire
January 31, 2010, 10:29 PM
In your situation, I would get the CZ that you have your eye on. Price is okay. I purchased a CZ Varmint first and then later bought a Savage Mark II Classic. I like both. Now, I am trying to dig up the $$ for an Anshutz with the 54 action.

banditt007
January 31, 2010, 10:34 PM
as far as triggers go for the CZ you can get an $18 trigger kit that makes the trigger, exceptional, and install it yourself.

Its also about how the gun feels, i doubt any new savage has the 'classic' 'oldschool' feel that the CZ has. compared to my savage 111....the savage just feels 'dead'. Whereas the CZ has a nice tight feel to it.

You can also find all metal magazines for the CZ as well as metal magazine wells. Which tops it off.

Bottom line is, handle both and see which one you like better. And remember ammo and shooter have a huge influence on how accurate it shoots. i'm sure both would shoot great.

A_Gamehog
January 31, 2010, 11:38 PM
The CZ 452 is a quality gun for the money, with an "aftermarket" target trigger is close to the Ancshutz 64 in accuracy.

.300 Weatherby Mag
February 1, 2010, 01:23 AM
CZs are great guns don't get me wrong.... But there is absolutely nothing wrong with a savage Mark II... I prefer the classic series or the laminated models including the BV, BTV and BTVS...

Lawyer Daggit
February 1, 2010, 04:33 AM
I think you will find the CZ far better built and engineered.

My apologies if I have offended any sensitivities, but I think you would need to look back quite a few years to find an equivalently built US bolt action .22.

skoro
February 1, 2010, 08:39 AM
I have both a Savage MkII BV and a CZ 452 Varmint. The CZ looks better and fit and finish is superior. But I really like the Accutrigger on the Savage. Functionally, both are accurate and consistent.

The Savage was considerably less expensive. The CZ feels better on my shoulder. I like both of them for different reasons. I think you'll pleased either way you go.

bedlamite
February 1, 2010, 08:46 AM
Get both :D

A_Gamehog
February 1, 2010, 10:13 AM
Even during the ammo "Shortage" the 17HMR ammo was available. Most accurate rimfire I ever shot.

The 17HMR 917SS will accurately shoot to 150-200 yards.

The 22lr is a 50-100 yard gun.

Now before everyone gets their dander up, this gun is in stock at Wally world in the bull barrel model for 225.00+$ The only drawback I can think of is the price of the ammo. It's the gun I shoot when my 22 centerfires are overkill. Capable of 1MOA all day long.

I have a CZ 452, with a rifle basix adjustable trigger and it has a Nikon straight 4 power scope .

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=253264

pilpens
February 1, 2010, 10:47 AM
+1 on CZ. CZ452 + AS adjustable sear or CZ453
Had a Savage MKII heavy barrel gander mountain exclusive. Had issues, FTE and nose dive because of wobbly magazine. Savage fixed the FTE. Accutrigger was ok. Kept Savage for the 1 summer and sold it the next.

Pahoo
February 1, 2010, 11:41 AM
I think you will find the CZ far better built and engineered.


As I stated before, I have gotten close and personal with both and would have to agree with this statement. The worse thing about the CZ's, is that cheap trigger guard.

Things to consider:
The Special is still pretty much the Lux but less expensive. To mount a scope, you should get the 11MM rings and that will cost you some. I have done trigger jobs on these, even though it has an adjustment. The rear sight is trickie to remove but easy if you know the way. The base is still part of the barrel as well as the front sight base. Did not care for that. In the end, I really did not care for the european stock. That is why I prefer the American.

The BTVSS is pretty much for shooting from the bench. You will not be satisfied with the provided scope and will eventually get a better one. The accu-trigger is not a target trigger as much as it is a safety block. Trigger job is a must by my measure. I pretty much shoot mine as a single-shot. The feel of the stock is great and provides for a better cheek-weld. My BTVSS is just as accurate as the CZ.

I sold my CZ-Lux/Special but will keep my BTVSS but that's just me. In your case, the money is a consideration. Both are excellent rifles and if I were in your shoes, I'd still go with the CZ. please get back to s and let us know how you went on this. .... :)

Be Safe !!!

stubbicatt
February 1, 2010, 05:33 PM
Get which one you think you will like better. They are both quality arms.

sholling
February 1, 2010, 08:28 PM
I owned a CZ453 Varmint, had CZ replace the first one (it didn't group it patterned) which took them about 6 weeks. The replacement I sold unfired and bought an Anschutz. Honestly I think my lemon was just that an aberration but if I were to buy another <$500 bolt action 22 for scoped use I'd probably buy a Savage BV or BTVS.

Big Bill
February 1, 2010, 08:39 PM
Today I put a new CZ 452 .22 LR Special Military Training rifle on layaway. I thought the price was right and it is a beautiful rifle. Here's what it looks like:

http://cz-usa.com/assets/product-images/317/452lux637x200_png_637x200_q85.png

If I were you, I'd go with the CZ. The CZ is definate a quality built rifle.

scottycoyote
February 2, 2010, 01:01 PM
the new cz455 will interchange between the 17 and the 22, i think im gettin it next

Doyle
February 2, 2010, 03:19 PM
Bill, either that picture is distorted or that has got to be the strangest angle on a buttstock I've ever seen on a modern rifle.

Pahoo
February 2, 2010, 03:43 PM
It's not distorted; It's what they refer to as the European style as opposed to the American style.


Be Safe !!!

Doyle
February 2, 2010, 06:09 PM
It's what they refer to as the European style as opposed to the American style.


Ah, that explains it. Them Europeans have funny shaped shoulders.:D

tINY
February 2, 2010, 06:34 PM
People are saying that the CZ is "better engineered". I couldn't disagree more!

The Savage is a much better design - it's built by Canadians, and it still outshoots the CZ built by fine craftsmen who work for lower pay.

That said, the one that fits you better is the right one to get.



-tINY