in-line stock to reduce muzzle flip on 308

[Dr Spin]

This is my first post so I would first like to say hi to all the members.

The question I have has been bothering my for a couple of years now. I shoot deer in Scotland and England with a Tikka .308 and Sako 7mm Rem Mag. Both rifles have quite a muzzle flip. This means the gun jumps when fired and I am not seeing the bullet strike which I think not only spoils my enjoyment but also I am not able to judge the deers reaction to the shot ie shot placement.
I hear Eugene Stoner in the US perfected the armalite rifle with an in-line stock which dramatically cuts down muzzle flip (albeit with a smaller calibre). I wonder if it would be worthwhile for me to fit something similar to my rifles. I know this will necessitate a high scope mount because of cheek position relative to the barrel but I can live with that.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated, John

[Art Eatman]

Probably the folks who know most about the answer to your question would be those with an AR-10 in .308. While it's a semi-auto, the behavior for any one shot would be similar for a bolt-gun with that stock alignment.

Art

[srtrax]

In some of my rifle building, i've gone as far as setting the action in the stock low enough that part of the nose of the stock had to be clearanced for the operation of the bolt. Your are right when you ask about the stock being easier to handle if it is more in line with the exit of the barrel. The more the rifle is in line with shooter,then recoil has more of a straight line impact . Stock design has a lot to do with the recoil of the rifle due to the drop in the heel and toe area. When putting a stock or a gun together, i lean the rifle up against a wall, and if the barrel and action wont touch the wall while the butt of the gun sets flat with the floor, it can be helped. I useally put 1" pads on guns and i try to straighten them up by cutting them 90* to the bore line (top edge of barrel channel,) and trim off the drop and install the pad. In doing so it will put the gun more in line with the shooter,and while it does help with felt recoil, i don't think this or a muzzlebrake will allow you to see bullet impact. It does allow for a faster recovery of the recoil. Its surprising how a more straight line rifle shoots like compared to one with more drop at the heel, toe area. I seem to use more med. height rings then i do low, but i like my scopes to have a 40mm objective instead or the 50mm trash can size objectives, so this has never been much of a concern. Hope it helps and answered your question.

[Dr Spin]

Both of my rifles have reflex T8 sound moderators fitted which reduces recoil by about 60% but the muzzle flip is still there.
I've had a thumbhole stock with pistol grip put on my 308 and the gunsmith has made it with negative pitch. This means the butt plate instead of being mounted vertically is angled slightly so the toe is slightly more in the shoulder than the heel so counteracting muzzle flip. But the improvement is only marginal.
If I'm ever in the states I would like to try a AR-10 in 308 to see what it is like.

Cheers John

[tINY]

A lower power scope and a smaller caliber will help too.

With a 2x scope on a 243, considering your other improvements, I would think that you should be able to see the strikes.

Can the tikka be easily rebarreled?




-tINY

[MD_Willington]

Why not add a muzzle break :confused:

[rgitzlaff]

He said he's already got a can (silencer) on the end, which reduced recoil by 60%. I would also say to use a smaller caliber. You could get away with using something as small as 6mm I think. .243 would be a good bet. I don't know how big your deer are over there, but maybe you could also get away with a .22 caliber round as long as your shot placement is right, it should put them down reliably.

[Davis]

What about adding a Soviet-style AK slant brake on the end that would deflect remaining gas up. It would do nothing to recoil but would reduce muzzle flip. However, I'm not at all certain if it would work with the gasses coming out of a silencer.

Davis

[srtrax]

But the improvement is only marginal.

By the way, Welcome to the fourm. That was pretty much what i was getting at, its an improvement (in-line stock) but its not a complete answer, and i'm not sure there is an answer. Other than keeping an eye on the game as you chamber another round. When at the range go through this senerio several times and try to improve on getting away from the gun and watch your target as you grab another round. I shoot a 338/06 and lose sight of the game because of recoil, but thats why i shoot the 338/06 :),there is'nt anything to watch, its dead!:D Sorry, got carried away with my favorite round.??????????????????????????????????????????????

[Zak Smith]

The AICS stock puts things more centerline than standard sporter stocks. You should be able to spot hits shooting a 7RM and 308 with a suppressor.

[Dr Spin]

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. I want to keep my 308 rather than go down to a 243 as some of the deer I shoot are Red Stags which grow up to 400lb. The good thing about the 308 is that it will be good for all 6 deer we have over here Red, Sika, Fallow, Roe, Muntjac and CWD. I could buy a 243 when I'm shooting the last three species
Some sort of muzzle brake that vents vertically is an idea but as I mentioned I already have sound moderators on my guns.
The accuracy international stock is a good one but not quite an in-line stock as an Armalite.
I've been in touch with a guy who builds bullpup type rifles based on a Mauser action called gex-dumez which might be better
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a321/drspin_/Gex-dumez.jpg