View Full Version : I admit it... I am insane.

September 16, 2004, 06:56 AM
Being a gun nut, I am already (!) making a shopping list as to which handgun/rifle/shotgun I want for when I move to America (1 year 11 month left for end of service, counting down). You think that's nuts? Brace for THIS.

I think I will use a Bushmaster M4gery as a basis for the Rifle of My Dreams (RMD-15). However, given that, as an IDF Armourer's Course graduate, I am a firm believer in accessorizing, modifying, etc. Thus, when I become an American (estimated 2006), I will replace the handguards on the thing with an A.R.M.S. 45 MV set. (http://www.mwgco.com/miva/merchant.mvc?store_code=MSP&screen=PROD&product_code=45MV). I shall then install a full JP trigger group in the thing.

But by that, my gun nut drive shall NOT be satisfied! :)

I shall proceed to mount an ACOG scope, a Harris bipod, a vertical foregrip (just for the looks, really), a laser sight and a tactical flashlight.

Is that insane? Or am I normal? OR did I forget anything?

Total Cost:

Bushmaster M4-gery: $1080
A.R.M.S. 45MV Handguards - $399
JP Fire Control kit - $140
ACOG Rifle Scope - $684
Harris Bipod with Picatinny Ral Adopter - $87
Vertical foregrip - $35
Laserlyte Universal 500-yard Lasersight - $169
SliC OffSet Tactical Flashlight Mount - $75
Maglite tactical Flashlight of some model or another - $20
2894 USD worth of gun nuttery!

I started saving already.

September 16, 2004, 08:20 AM
I think you need more accessories! :p

September 16, 2004, 08:40 AM
A bipod and match trigger on what is supposed to be a fighting carbine? A laser beam, but only $20 budgeted for a white light? Optics, but no backup irons? Well, I guess it's still a free country, but you need to start doing a search on Pat Rogers' posts... :)

September 16, 2004, 09:06 AM
Tamara, you do realise that JP makes a tactical trigger kit rated at 3 lbs, no?

September 16, 2004, 09:09 AM
Also, don't these things come with backup irons?

September 16, 2004, 09:21 AM
Tamara, you do realise that JP makes a tactical trigger kit rated at 3 lbs, no?

Yes, I realize that. What do you intend this rifle to be used for?

Also, don't these things come with backup irons?

The handguards you linked to are for a flat-top rifle. Flat-top rifles, by definition, do not have rear sights, so you will need to budget for a good quality BUIS.

September 16, 2004, 09:41 AM
Tamara, my first priority is for this rifle to be a multi-purpose tool. Think Swiss Army knives.

I know that quite few people in the IDF carry rifles with similar set-ups daily. So if people manage M4 carry guns, an M-4 home defense/recreation rifle is perfectly feasible.

The recreation part is foremost as I realise the likelihood of an actual violent encounter is very small.

September 16, 2004, 11:12 AM
You're not insane - yet. BUT, if you really want to cross the line, you need at least TWO ARs, one with heavy 20-24" bbl and bipod and higher power scope, and one is the M4gery with the gizmos you mention (ACOG, laser, handguard, front grip, etc), except NO bipod on this one, and yes, probably a slightly better flashlight. So, get the one you describe first, then when you save up for the long-range AR, take the bipod off the swiss-army-EBR and put it on the then-new one.

Brian Williams
September 16, 2004, 11:29 AM
It's gonna look like this

Any .45
September 16, 2004, 11:55 AM
:eek: Brian thats what I call multipurpose rifle all your missing is the hot plate and there you go, or can all those lights be used to cook the food. I like it, I like it alot. My Praise to you. What do you charge for one and whats the turn around time.

September 16, 2004, 12:15 PM
I knew someone would bring this up.

September 16, 2004, 03:34 PM
Im a practical guy personaly and I find all these accesories rather pointless, but thats just me. I can understand the ACOG, bipod and flashlight, but the forward grip and so on are just dead weight. The laser pointer is the thing that i dislike most (excluding the action on the M4). It all comes down to personal prefrence I guess.

September 16, 2004, 03:37 PM
Welcome to TFL anyway, mate!

September 16, 2004, 03:41 PM
I'm officially revoking your Photoshop license :D

September 17, 2004, 10:46 AM
I remember when I use to think I had to have the folding stock on my "combat shotgun"...the d*** thing kept collasping on me when I least expected it.

Have looked at the fancy laser sighting etc. But figure the day the S*** hits the fan, the batteries will be dead!

Bottom line, keep it simple!

Get a nice bolt action with good optics, get a nice semi-auto with iron sights, get a great handgun and a good shotgun with a flashlight attached...something in this batch of goodies is going to get the job done!

KISS: Keep it Simple Stupid

September 17, 2004, 10:49 AM
Welcome, antikristuseke!

September 17, 2004, 06:12 PM

Here's a rifle I found on www.awbansunset.com

Judging by the scope, I am pretty sane. :)

Ben Swenson
September 17, 2004, 06:36 PM
We know you're nuts. Can't be sane and a socialist. ;)

Personally, I'd ditch the bipod, the JP trigger, the cheap flashlight, the handguards, the fore-grip and the laser. Use that money for a decent set of BUIS, a good flashlight and lots of magazines and ammo.

Then I'd get some training.

September 17, 2004, 10:23 PM
So if people manage M4 carry guns, an M-4 home defense/recreation rifle is perfectly feasible.

Of course it is. I use one myself.

You have to decide what you want the rifle to do, though. To use your SAK analogy, when I went shopping for a multi-tool, I wanted one that would fit in my pocket. This meant I had to give up some of the cool gizmos or super-ruggedness that the larger tools had, but with a 1911 and a mag carrier, I already had enough crap dangling from my belt, so a Leatherman Juice it was.

How important is the bipod? Is it that much more effective than a good rifle rest for shooting off a bench? Will it encumber the rifle unnecessarily should you ever want to take it to gun skul or (gawd forbid) use it for what it was intended for? Why would you budget a couple hundred for a 500m laser which you will in all likelihood never use (most ranges close at dusk and daylight lasers aren't at 500m) and only allow $20 for a weapon light which is awful handy on a carbine in your house at night? $20 will get you a Radio Shack flashlight and a roll of duct tape; plan on spending between four and ten times that amount to put a proper white light on your carbine. Why a complicated trigger with extra bits rather than a factory unit? Do a search on these forums for folks that have taken match triggers to Thunder Ranch and Gunsite and see how many still have them on their house gun.

If you just want a toy, that's cool; it's a free country. If you want a varmint-zapping/paper-punching AR, that's cool, too; buy you a 20" flattop with a free-floated heavy tube and park some honkin' huge glass on it and go to town. If you want a gun that will be useful to fight with, study what makes a carbine useful to fight with and what is just impedimentia. (A collapsable stock on a scoped, bipoded paper puncher makes about as much sense as a kickstand on a tank.) It's understandable that you want to have as many different kinds of fun with one gun as you can, but be careful not to add so much of both that you wind up without enough of either. Maybe get two rifles or, if finances are tight, take advantage of the modularity of the platform and get two uppers and one lower.

September 18, 2004, 04:58 AM
I actually carry a service m4 every day, and i love my forward grip. If I ever owned a commercial AR-15 or variant, I'd want that forward grip.

September 18, 2004, 07:13 AM
A forward grip is a good thing for most people on a carbine. I've been using my magwell, but I'll eventually be adding one to my house gun. Haven't tried the one from TangoDown yet, but it's supposed to be da bomb. I'm thinking about adding a SureFire light/grip to my housegun, but I'll feel better about plunking down the guilders for it after I've talked to a few more people who've beat the crap out of them with favorable results. :o

.45 Vet
September 18, 2004, 09:38 AM
There's an old saying..."I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"

September 18, 2004, 09:43 AM
Well, yes, and a forward grip is almost a necessity on my bushy M17, cuz there's no handguard per se - the heat just flows right through the aluminum receiver. So I had a p-rail put up under the front for this.

September 18, 2004, 11:13 PM
To me some of the few appeals of a .223 rifle are light and handy. Once they start to grow anything more than a tough low-powered glass sight the appeal begins to dive sharply.

September 18, 2004, 11:49 PM
Keep it simple. Get the rifle in its basic configuration (with all available evil features of course) and a reflex type sight from Meprolite or Trijicon and you're all set.