Cheap Military Bolt Rifles

[steelbuster]

My Gun Club is starting a new silhouette competition for military boltaction rifles. It's intended to be inexpensive and fun. Any suggestions on what would be a good choice to buy? I want to find something under a $100 and looks are not important, only safety and accuracy. I handload so ammo is not really a concern although it would be nice to find cheap ammo too.
Thanks . Pete

[vanfunk]

If you can spend just a liiiitle more ($160) I would recommend one of the Yugoslavian M48 8mm Mauser rifles. These are well built, strong rifles and are in abundance right now. They are available at the above price in 95-98% condition, less $ in the lower grades. Ammo is cheap, cheap, cheap. Enfields (though usually beat-up) can be found for $100 and are good shooters, in my experience. An excellent deal though, for an affordable, accurate milsurp, is the Swedish m96 in 6.5x55mm. You can sometimes find a really nice example for $150, and they shoot beautifully- they were cared for very well and most have superb bores. The 6.5mm round won't pulp your shoulder either, like 8mm mauser can after 100 rounds or so. Turkish (German made, though) Mausers can be good shooters and the price is right- around $60- but they often need TLC. Hope this helps...
Don't be afraid to shop around and see what "speaks" to you, either!
vanfunk

[El Rojo]

You have so many options I don't know where to begin. First I have a Mosin Nagant carbine and it is a great shooter. The carbines kick like a mule, sound like a cannon, and emit a muzzle blast comparable to a 16 inch gun, but they are lots of fun to shoot and fairly accurate. I have also shot the full size versions and they seem to be a little more accurate, not as loud, and don't recoil as much. The carbines can be aquired for anywhere from $100-$200 or more depending on who made it and its condition. The full size guns can regularly be found for $40-100 just about anywhere, but more importantly quite often at Big 5.

I also bought a Ishapor Arsenal enfield tanker in .308. I am not impressed with this gun at all. The stupid bayonet lug/front stock keeps flying off the gun after so many shots and it shoots about a mile high at 100 yards. So I have one I will sell you cheap if you want it. ;). The nice thing about this rifle is it is in .308 which is easily reloadable compared to the 7.62x54 rimmed of the Mosin Nagant. The good thing about the nagant is that you can find surplus ammo for it really cheap to expensive depending on the quality.

This is all the knowledge I have at the moment, I expect many others to help you out as well. I will be checking in too just so I can see what I need to make my next bolt action rifle. I suspect you will be hearing abour mausers as well.

[Noban]

I second the recommendation for the Yugoslavian Mausers (8mm). Either an M-48 or M-48 A will do, the latter having stamped parts and sometimes a little cheaper. Action and wood are the same. Most arrive coated in cosmoline, but half the fun of owning these old guns is bringing them back to life. Big 5 usually runs specials on these rifles for around $125, including a bayonet, ammo pouch and original cleaning kit.

Good luck

[Dave R]

You can find the French MAS-36 bolt-action converted to .308 for $99 at http://www.gunsnammo.com

Add shipping and FFL fee and its not too far from $100.

[Prof]

My vote is for the Enfield, mainly because I have two. But I will agree that the Mausers are also excellent rifles and excellent buys (and probably the most elegantly-styled rifle in existence!). I like the Enfields for the same reasons the other gentlemen have voiced: inexpensive, accurate, ammo is available and relatively inexpensive). I have a "new", never-issued No.4 MkII which is a dream to shoot. But my old 1913 No.1 Mk III, while ugly as sin, has an action like silk and will group nicely, thank you very much. I think that if you buy either a Mauser or Enfield you will be more than happy.

[Erich]

You might find a Finn 39 Mosin-Nagant for under $100. Those had to group into 3 cm at 100 meters, or else they were rejected by those hardcore Finns.

I love my Mosin 91/59 ($79 brand new - the Soviets mothballed these in the late '50s) and my other various Mosins. Some of them are quite accurate. My Yugo 48 can do pretty well, too, now that I've got a Mojo aperture on it. But I have to say, it's hard to beat a Swede. If you are serious about winning this competition, invest the extra dinero and get a Swede 96 (or a Finn 39).

And have a great time! cheers, erich

[Daryl Waldron]

For under $100 you can pick up a Mosin-Nagant 91-30 or even 2 of them. I have one that is a real shooter. That being said,If i was picking military boltaction rifles for less i would go with the Finn 39. You have a better chance of getting an accurate one.

[Badger Arms]

Ack. I cannot believe nobody listed this yet. Absolutely the best value out there in a bolt action. You can buy the russian guns cheaper and the Yugo looks better but for the money, you get more value in the Czech gun.

[Adventurer_96]

I shoot my MAS 1936 with the original caliber 7.5 rounds, and yes they are expensive but if a round ever looked mean, it's the 7.5mm. By the way, it seems to be very accurate.

I also shoot my Ishapore Enfield in .308, although I'm not real smart when it comes to Number X Mark X. Maybe it's a Number 4??? At any rate, it's a lot more shooter-friendly than the 1916 Enfield in .303 that I also shoot. Again, Number ?? Mark ??...

Why hasn't anybody recommended the M1895 Steyr in 8x56? Sure, you may not hit the broad side of a barn but it's noisy and the straight-pull bolt is different...

La perte des armes est la fin de la liberte.

[Nightcrawler]

My local gunshop stocks both 7.62x54R and .303 British, but while the former is manufactured in Russia new (and can be purchased in bulk from Wolf, but only in FMJ form, I think) I'm not sure who's still making .303 British, although it's my understanding that the Enfield cartridge is popular worldwide.

[Correia]

That sounds like a really great idea for a match! That would be so much fun, and cheap, and you wouldn't have to worry about keeping up in the equipment race either.

If the stages were set up to require more rounds then I would have to go with an Enfield or an Ishipore. 10 or 12 rounds respectively. The Nagants and Mausers only hold 5 in the mag, so that could be a handicap.

I love old crusty guns. :) Just bought a Nagant carbine, and haven't even gotten to shoot it yet.

[Thibault]

Nightcrawler,
All the major companies still manufacture 303BR, and even Rem makes under the UMC brand cheapo plinker 174gr MC. Hornady has a 150gr Light Mag round which has nothing to sneeze at in the ooomph department, Rem, Win and Fed (IIRC) have 180gr SP hunting loads.
Depending of your location, availability might be a problem, but in Kanada, one would find them just about anywhere.

Just my 0.02

[Tamara]

...surplus .303 is available by the 880-rnd case lot all over the 'net and Shotgun News for 2/3rds of a song and half a dance.

[Yanus]

Try Sonja Ellisons. He has a website, but you'll have to use a search engine because I've forgotten it. I have bought several old military rifles from him. He is a little more expensive, but I've never received a bad rifle from him. He handpicks his rifles at the importer's warehouses. That's all he sells, old rifles.

[steelbuster]

Thanks, one and all for the reply's... I am leaning toward a Swede 96 in 6.5X55 as I have always heard good things about both the cartridge and rifle.
Thanks again, Pete
PS> Sonja Ellisons web sight looks very promising

[Eat more possum]

I gotta tell ya I think you probably made the best choice. I am lucky enough to have a '96 Swede made by Husqvarna. Nice and easy to load for and pleasant to shoot. Paid under a bill for it a few years back and dang glad to have it. It really was well taken care of. My only gripe is that the sights are IMHO, poor. An adjustable peep would be so much better than that stupid v notch that is only elevation adjustable. Admittedly it doesn't get used all that much, but there is still something so satisfying about owning one...

[Erich]

What are you waiting for? Slap a Mojo or Williams aperture sight on that puppy and tighten up your groups! Both of these companies make peeps that utilize your existing rear sight base and don't require modification of the rifle. I've got a Williams on an old Swede I've had for years, but I think the Mojo's a better product for the money (it's got a screw-drive-adjust for elevation and windage). I was also very favorably impressed by their customer service. Here's a link: http://www.mojosights.com/

[Jaeger]

I'm partial to Enfields. Particularly the #4 series of rifles. The sights are superior to the stock sights on any of it's contemporaries. They're also quite accurate.

I had my #4 Mk1 out this morning to test some hand loads. I used RP cases, Federal match primers, 42 gr. of Reloader 15 and a Sierra 174gr. match hollow point. I was only shooting at 50 yds but my group measured .5". It's a completely stock rifle.

PMC makes factory match ammo for the 303. Greek surplus is the best if you can still find it ( http://www.ammoman.com ) South African isn't bad but it isn't reloadable. The Pakistani stuff is plentiful and cheap but it' pretty corrosive and uses cordite propellant. It's ok for blasting.

Give the old Brit a try. You'll be hooked. I'm using mine for Highpower this year.

[Correia]

All this talk of surplus guns makes me want to buy more. I saw a beautiful Czech Mauser last night at Big 5, but I had already spent my allotment of gun money for one month. Bummer. :(

[El Rojo]

I have had my C&R license for a year now and have yet to buy anything with it. Thanks to this thread, I might just pick me up a 6.5 Swede. Heck, the more I think about it, if these guns only cost $50-250, I might just have to buy one a month! Thanks again TFL for costing me more money.

[steelbuster]

Two more questions now... what is a C&R license?? and what is Big 5? a store or a web sight???

[Eat more possum]

Hey Erich!! Those Mojo sights look like just the ticket. Gonna have one as soon as they can ship. Serious thanks for what will indeed be a mojor improvement in that rifle. It might even get graduated into a bad weather hunting arm, for use when optical sights are not first choice. Got any more tricks that good and that cheap up your sleeve?

[Gewehr98]

In my quest to completely fill my C&R FFL bound book, I found a mismatched, but nice 1899 Oberndorf Swedish M96, for $150.00, and bought it. Never mind the fact that I already own a beautiful all-matching 1917 Carl Gustaf Swedish M96. As soon as I find the proper Soderin diopter rear, or buy one of the Samco rear diopters, as well as the globe front, the large-handled bent bolt, and maybe the target stock, the Oberndorf will become a match rifle to perhaps duplicate the original CG-63 or CG-80.

Luckily, this breaks me out of my latest affliction, that dreaded disease known as Enfielditis. Matter of fact, I'm gonna pare things down, and stay with just a 1917 Enfield Lock No1MkIII*, a 1941 Lithgow No1MkIII*, and a 1945 BSA Shirley No5Mk1. I'm putting up my 1942 Long Branch No4Mk1* for sale, it just doesn't shout "Ugly, yet brutally functional, love me because I'm an SMLE" like the older No1MkIII*'s do, nor does it have the appeal and report of the gutsy No5Mk1 Jungle Carbine.

As for good quality .303 ammo, don't forget about the excellent Sellier & Bellot FMJ fodder, it's not too expensive, is reloadable, and even gives my Jungle Carbine respectable groups at 100 yards. Cheaperthandirt.com usually stocks it, too.

[Correia]

steelbuster, a C&R is a Curio and Relic FFL. You can order certain kinds of guns and have them shipped directly to your house. These include most guns over 50 years old. You can get really good deals this way.

And Big 5 is a big chain of sporting goods stores that oftens stocks lots of neat surplus guns for very reasonable prices.

[ATeaM]

What about the Gibbs Enfield #7 in .308 ? Anyone got feedback on that one ?

[steelbuster]

The Curio and Relic FFL sounds like just the ticket I need. Anyone have any details on how to apply?

[Thibault]

Well, I got Enfielditis not too long ago, a 1943 Longbranch No4 MkI* under my belt, and I'm now looking for a pristine No4 MkII....

All you ever wanted to know about Enfields, and some more... http://www.recguns.com/IIID2a11a.html

BTW, if you don't reload, there's a bunch of 80's mfg PMP (South African) 174 FMJ non-corrosive non-reloadable .303 ammo selling for peanuts...

[Nodakmarine]

Avoid the rechambered MAS-36 rifles like the plauge!!! I got one here at a gun show last week and this thing is going down the road at the next show. The fore end is kept from sliding off the barrel only because the barrel band connects it to the upper handguard and the upper handguard is stopped form moving forward and off the barrel by the front sight! :( Second point, and the main one as well, is that accuracy on this rifle SUCKS! I mean it's REALLY bad. At 100 yards, I had a lot of trouble keeping 4 out of 5 rounds on a FBI B-27 "gun grabber in the open" silouette target while shooting from a rest. I have AK-47s that shoot better than this offhand! Bottom, line? Piece of junk that fortunatly I got at a cheap price and I will have no regrets selling either.

[LightningLink]

Check out Cruffler's (http://www.cruffler.com) site. Their primary focus is C&R collecting. The following link will give you the information that you need: http://www.cruffler.com/becomingcruffler.html

I found Cruffler's copy of Form 7CR didn't quite print out right for me. The ATF copy can be found at: http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms. Click on form ATF F 5310.16. The trick is to follow the ATF web's instructions and print the form on legal paper.

I mailed my application off this morning. I figure the first purchase that saves me the $25 FFL fee will cover it's cost. Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to keep myself from buying all these inexpensive (yet quality) C&R rifles :).

LL

[steelbuster]

Thanks for the tip lighting, I had the same problem printing the form . will do the ATF site.

[Erich]

"Mojor" improvement! Cracked me up!