You guys and your nikons....(and a good gun shop story)

[mdd]

For months on here all I've read about when it comes to optics is how goooooood nikon scopes are and how well they compare to leupold's costing 40% more. Problem is, no one around here carries nikon (or leupold, or bushnell elite, or burris, etc.) You might say I am where many of you make plans to go when it comes time to schedule a hunt.
So my father in law decided he wanted a new scope for the .243 I gave him for his birthday this year. Good thing since it didn't come with a scope and deer hunting with no sights at all is tricky. Bad thing since deer season opens Wednesday here. I made some phone calls and found a shooting sports store about 80 miles from here that carried leupold, burris, and nikon (as well as kahles, zeiss, etc). "Good. I'll get to see these fabled nikons with my own eyes," I thought.
Today we made the trip to check out this store and we were greeted by friendly and helpful folks from the minute we walked in. Keep in mind, I've gotten used to the only game in town treating me like my money isn't the right shade of green for him. These guys however let us walk out the back door to their open shooting range to compare any scope we wanted. Unaccompanied, we toted a couple thousand dollars worth of scopes out the back door and the only instructions they offered was to take our time deciding which one to take home. Back and forth I went as he eliminated this one or added that one to the comparison. Burris, Leupold, Nikon, and back again through multiple models for almost an hour. Eventually he ended up buying the nikon prostaff 3-9x40 to go on his new 243. I have to say I am very impressed with the nikon scopes and so was my father in law. I thought the burris ff II had a very slightly more crisp picture than the prostaff but he felt the same for the nikon. FFII also cost a third more than the nikon though so it's damn hard to argue the value of the nikon.
The best part of this whole scenario is that I've found a new, friendly, and quite accommodating gun store. Despite the 160 mile round-trip, I'll be stopping by often.


Next time I'll bring more money and leave with the monarch they had sitting there too :D

[HunterGuy]

Not to fond of many of the guns shops by me either. Most of my shopping tends to be through cabellas and I just get the stuff shipped to me.

[Picher]

Over the past few years, I've found good scope deals from Natchez Shooters Supply and Optics Planet.

[Kreyzhorse]

Next time I'll bring more money and leave with the monarch they had sitting there too


Don't bother with the 180 mile trip. The attached link is for a Nikon Primos 3x9. Two things you should know. First, the Primos is a branded Monarch. It's the same scope as the Monarch, it just was a run under the Primos brand with the BDC.

Second thing, Nikon isn't making 3x9s any more so this scope can be had for a song.

I just bought one of these myself. They are outstanding scopes and for the money, they can't be beat.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/reviews/reviews-nikon-team-primos-3-9x40-bds-riflescope.html

[pythagorean]

I have a LOT of Nikons on my rifles, with Burris, Weaver, and Leupold. One Swarovsky and an Accupoint (Trijicon).

Nikon makes a good picture.

[group17]

Walmart carries Nikon around here.

[Achilles11B]

My Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 does the job for my Winchester in .223 for target shooting, and I love the BDC reticle. Whenever I decide to go forth with a .308 bolt-action rifle, I'll definitely be looking at another Nikon for that one, too.

[2damnold4this]

Glad you found a good gun shop. Sounds like a fun trip.

[bman940]

Nikon IS still making the 3-9 riflescope and this is the perfect time to pick one up.
Go to Nikonhunting.com
Click on the PROMOTIONS page and you can get one for $100 off, pretty great deal.
I hope this helps?
Bart
Nikon Pro Staff

[jhog1]

Has anyone tried a Pentax Pioneer ? I just ordered one, 4.5X14x42 for $134.99 I've been told the arrangement between Burris and Pentax is that Pentax supplies Burris with glass and Burris assembles Pentax Pioneer (same as FFII) and Lightseekers (same as Signiture series). For that price I had to try one not even sure what to put it on yet, maybe I'll have to buy a new rifle ?

[pythagorean]

Has anyone tried a Pentax Pioneer ? I just ordered one, 4.5X14x42 for $134.99 I've been told the arrangement between Burris and Pentax is that Pentax supplies Burris with glass and Burris assembles Pentax Pioneer (same as FFII) and Lightseekers (same as Signiture series). For that price I had to try one not even sure what to put it on yet, maybe I'll have to buy a new rifle ?

I forgot to add that I have a Pentax on my Ruger 77/22 WMR:

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/whitehouse_2008/Rimfire%20Rilfes/003.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/whitehouse_2008/Rimfire%20Rilfes/002-8.jpg

[woodguru]

This is the Gameseeker 4-12x on this .22, it's a great scope for the $110 I paid for it. I use Burris Signature rings with the ring inserts to get the scope true to center with rings first as opposed to using scope adjustment.

FYI,
It's the next scope up the Pentax line that's the exact same as the Fullfield II, the Whitetail Hunter 4.5-14, I have those on some bolt action .22's. They have an adjustable objective. If that's what you got for the $139 you got a great price, I got a deal on four or so for something like $210 and consider them a steal at that.

http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy321/parrotcare_2009/P1030504.jpg

[Johnny Falcon]

My dad's got a Nikon 4.5-14? on his TC Icon, and it's pretty darn nice.

[pax]

Hey, name the store!

If they were that good, they deserve a little free publicity.

pax

[Trigger Time]

I'm a Burris guy, but my brother is a Nikon guy. I saw that a regional sporting goods chain store had the Prostaff 3-9X40 on sale for like $130. I bought one 'cause it seemed like a good price (it's still in the box)

Now I see they are on sale at several places for $99. My brother and I both questioned this price. Are corners being cut, or should I buy a dozen?

[HKFan9]

I always recommend the Prostaff for customers looking for a good scope at a good price. For the money they are really hard to beat, and come with a life time warranty. I am glad to see you had a good experience picking out a scope.

[TX Hunter]

Sounds like a very nice sporting goods store, congratulations on your fathers new scope.
You should name the store, as others may want to go there too.
Myself, I prefer a Leupold VX 2 but the Nikons are good scopes as well.

[Cowboy_mo]

Congrats on finding a nice store with friendly staff. I bought my first Nikon Prostaff 3x9x40 about a month ago when I bought my T/C Venture. I really like the scope and Bass Pro had it on sale for $110 the day I got it.

I have a Leupold VX-II in 3x7x32 on my .22lr and also like it a lot. Truthfully, I can't see any real difference in clarity between the two scopes. I will say that I like the adjustments better on the Nikon because they actually 'click' where the Leupold is a friction move that you can't feel or hear. Probably not a problem for guys with younger eyes who don't need their 'cheaters' to read the dial (like me lol).

Good shooting & good hunting to you & family.

[Fat White Boy]

I have a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9X40 on my Model 70. It hasn't failed me, yet. I have a Weaver K4 4X on my Remington 700 in .308. Also excellent results. I have a Leupold VXII 3-9X49 on my Browning Highwall in .22-250. Works great. IMHO, the Weaver is probably the brightest of the three. I have no regrets purchasing any of them.

[dodge]

I have 3 Nikons on various rifles. A Prostaff 3x9 on a 30-06, a Buckmaster 3x-9x on a 308 and on my varmint barreled .223 a Buckmaster 6x-18x with fine crosshairs and target dot. This scope has very repeatable adjustments. It has never let me down when moving from a 100 yard zero out to 200 or 300 yard zero and back again. When I buy a new scope for another rifle it will be a Nikon.

[mdd]

For anyone interested, the shop is smoky valley shooting sports near lindsborg, ks.
I like my vx-ii scopes also but side by side yesterday with his new nikon I wasn't seeing what makes my vx-ii cost double. I need a new scope on my 223 and think i'll try a buckmaster 4.5-14x40 w/ side focus. Should be very competitive to the vx-ii 4-12x40 ao I've been wanting...except the nikon is $100 cheaper.

[woodguru]

If you are going to go 4.5-14x go with the Pentax Whitetail Hunter at about $240 or so.

I got the recommendation from one of the biggest scope distributors in the US who sells Nikon, Pentax, Burris, etc.

I bought 18 scopes in less than three months so I was trying all kinds of different things, I tried Buckmasters side focus in 4.5-14x and 6-18x, nice scopes. But when I asked what he recommended at the same price point he told me to try the Pentax which is the exact same scope as the Burris Fullfield II for a hundred less wholesale.

No comparison between the Nikon and the Pentax, don't let the retail throw you, the Pentax is a four or five hundred dollar scope but can be had for as low as $225. The Nikon has about a $350 list last time I looked which was a year or two ago.

Nikon Buckmasters are a good scope, but the Whitetail Hunters are easily better for the same wholesale money.

I used to be a cut and dried Leupold man, gave up on them years ago when better and cheaper scopes started hitting the market. Not cheap, just cheaper. All you are getting for the extra money with them is a fancy gold trade mark ring.

I am not a brand loyal person as soon as a brand gets to where you are paying for the name over the actual perfomance.

[pichon]

I dislike going to the gun shops around me very much. They are either too busy, too overpriced, too dingy, and in every case the clerks treat you like they are doing you a favor by taking your money.

With the entrance of generations X and Y into the gun market, those dealers will find it increasingly hard to compete with the lower prices and wider availability of internet gun shopping.

Thankfully I do have a great FFL who doesn't run a shop and treats me with respect.

I am glad you found a good one, they seem to be few and far between.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

I have a Leupold VX-II in 3x7x32 on my .22lr and also like it a lot. Truthfully, I can't see any real difference in clarity between the two scopes. I will say that I like the adjustments better on the Nikon because they actually 'click' where the Leupold is a friction move that you can't feel or hear. Probably not a problem for guys with younger eyes who don't need their 'cheaters' to read the dial (like me lol).


The VX-II scopes have click adjustments, the older VARI-X II scopes have friction adjustments...

For anyone interested, the shop is smoky valley shooting sports near lindsborg, ks.
I like my vx-ii scopes also but side by side yesterday with his new nikon I wasn't seeing what makes my vx-ii cost double. I need a new scope on my 223 and think i'll try a buckmaster 4.5-14x40 w/ side focus. Should be very competitive to the vx-ii 4-12x40 ao I've been wanting...except the nikon is $100 cheaper.

I will gladly pay the extra $$$ to not have a scope that says made in the Phillipines on it..

[geetarman]

I have a Japanese made Nikon, a Chinese made Nikon and a Philippine made Nikon.

No problem with them.

Geetarman:D

[Poodleshooter]

I will gladly pay the extra $$$ to not have a scope that says made in the Phillipines on it..
Why? The VX-II is made using Asian sourced glass too. That's why Leupold doesn't put the "Made in the USA" on their scopes anymore. It's assembled in Beaverton OR, but it isn't all made in the USA. You have to step up (waaaaay up) to US Optics to get a vaunted "made in the USA" sticker that actually means something.

That said, I too have a Nikon Buckmaster made in the Phillipines by Kenko. It's great. It tracks well out to at least 300yds.

[woodguru]

Most people don't have a clue where an item or it's components are sourced.

Which is why I only pay attention to it as pertains to how and where each product line breaks down with respect to where (what factory) makes the optics as there are clear delineations between quality (and usually price). I flat don't care whether the best performing glass is made in China, Russia, Japan, or Korea, I want the best for the money.

US distributors pay for the wholesale bulk products so the economics are set way before you decide what product to "support". It's a rather empty nobility at best.

Budget scopes certainly aren't made in the US, that's for sure.

Getting away from a big and venerable name like Leupold making sense comes from the fact that they survive by a name and those loyal aren't paying attention to smaller leaner companies that exheed Leupold performance at way lower prices. I used high magnification top of the line Leupold for varmint and target rifles but they started going way over a grand. That's when I started looking for equally or better performance at a better price.

As an example right now I'm trying to figure out if the VX-3 6.5-20x is a better/equal/or lower quality than the Elite 4200 6-24x. I'm not interested in opinions by Leupold lovers who haven't even tried either the VX-3 or Elite 4200 because quite frankly they are clueless and their opinion means less than nothing.

Now that said I know what VX-2 glass looks like and I know the Pentax Whitetail Hunter 4.5-14x is superior as it is superior to Nikon Buckmasters 4-14x. I bought them all at the same time to try, and made a deal with the distributor to take the Leupold and Nikons back and send me six Pentax's. it wasn't about the price, it was about getting the best of the three.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

Most people don't have a clue where an item or it's components are sourced.

I'm not most people.... If the scope was made in Japan with Japanese glass I would have zeros issues.. Every Phillipine made optic I've come into contact with has been a great disappointment.. If the Nikons are the exception.. Great.. I would rather support US workers given the chance..

While optical quality is important, so is durabilty and that is one thing that I have not seen with a number of Chinese and Phillipine manufactured scopes.. I've had phillipine made scopes come apart after only a few rounds.. And Bushnell and Simmons CS is :barf::barf:...

I will agree that Bushnell Elites are good scopes, but after dealing with Bushnell CS in the past I will not buy one..

I do sample lots of different scopes when given the chance.. A good place is the yearly shooting sports fair where you can actually shoot different makes of guns an scopes..

[DBR]

When I was heavily involved in Photography back in the 1980s the best and most reliable lens testing was done by a then popular magazine. They had a good and competent lab. The definitive test for lens quality is called a "modulation transfer function" test.

Basically (simplified explanation) it measures the ability of the lens system to discriminate between black and white bars on a target as they get closer together. At the limit of resolution the bars merge into gray because the lens "smears" one bar into the next.

This test is very relevant to the image quality of a rifle scope. I wish someone would take up the cause and publish such test info. I'm sure the companies have it and I am equally sure it would show some "name brands" in an unfavorable light at least with respect to optical quality.

When a buyer says one scope is "crisper" or "sharper" than another this is part of what they are seeing. It can be quantified by proven methods. I would like to see buyers insist on this info.