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Old November 7, 2000, 07:32 PM   #1
MAD DOG
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I have really had it all of the hype and hyperbole associated with the much vaunted Stoner/AR family of inbred "gray trash".
They suck, plain and simple.
There, I said it, and I feel a LOT better!

Rant mode: ON
Finicky, over toleranced, ammo sensitive, ugly, malf prone, soft alloy receivers, flimsy magazines, defecates where it ingests, tiny gas tube, terrible breach design, pathetic extractors and ejectors, easily bent body, crappy stock sights, numerous stupid "improvements", plastic stocked, too many parts, lame .223 caliber choice, too weak for .308 battle rifle...
Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Add your gripes below in case I missed any.
What a cheesey excuse for a weapon.

Mine are all going bye-bye so I can spend the proceeds on REAL guns.
Join the club now! It costs nothing, and you will be very relieved to know that YOU TOO can escape the Stoner inspired doldrums of mediocrity!


[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 08, 2000).]
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Old November 7, 2000, 07:35 PM   #2
FireForged
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My My...That was interesting. Sorry I cant join today, maybe some other time.
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Old November 7, 2000, 07:48 PM   #3
Nightcrawler
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Ask service people about the M16 and you'll get two responses, based on what kind of soldier the person is.

The bootlickers fresh out of boot camp who think the military is always right and whatever the Brass wants is for the best think the M16 must be the finest battle implement ever.

Those of us who have had the displeasure of trying to keep the thing functional in the field, or have shot other types of weapons, know better. The M16s the military uses are hideous, and are made by obscure companies and have questionable reliability...
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Old November 7, 2000, 07:52 PM   #4
Art Eatman
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Awwww. C'mon. Don't you like 'em even a little bit? Just a eensy-weensy?

, Art
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Old November 7, 2000, 07:55 PM   #5
M16
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I really like my M16's and my AR15's as well. I can't ever remember having a problem with any of them. Maybe it's because I clean them every once and a while whether they need it or not.
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:00 PM   #6
Spamizbad
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Reguarding the M16:

What else can the US military use? Are there any other decent US-Made Combat rifles?

I've fired about 30 rounds through someone elses Colt AR-15. Seemed like a really nice rifle. Then again, 30 rounds is a pretty small sample of the firearm.

Either way, I'm interested in hearing from AR-15 people waht they think of their rifles. How often do they give you problems? How accurate are they? etc etc...
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:15 PM   #7
DUDE
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one bit of info. the M16 AR15 are not Battle Rifles, thay are ASSAULT RIFLE. and the .223 or 5.56mm NATO in a ASSAULT RIFLE ROUND NOT A Battle Rifle Round

------------------
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CO LRRP Team
of the Second Ranger Battalion Charlie Company in WW2 Online.
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:20 PM   #8
MAD DOG
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"Are there any decent US made combat rifles???"
YES!!
DS Arms FALs, Springfield M1A... but why limit it to US made? We are now buying Belgian MAG machine guns to replace the obsolescent M60...
The list would be longer if the army pulled it's collective head out of its cavernous patoot, and started the bidding for a new, SERIOUS rifle for infantry.

Failing a serious battle rifle, at least have one made in .223 that works better in field conditions. A .223 AK type would be a step in the right direction.

But lets get back to the subject at hand here... hating the AR15 and M16!
BOOOO! HISSSS! Lets stone Gene Stoner!
Get a rope!

And all of you that think that the weapon is OK just because you clean it once in a while have probably never been in the bush with one of these TURKEYS.
Lets go to bayonet practice: Bent guns.
Lets sit in the rain in an LP, or cross a raging torent: Water in the barrel has to be cleared before you can fire.
Lets walk through a sandstorm: Forget about it.
Lets buttstroke a commie: OOPs, bent gun again.
Lets clear plugged gas tube in field conditions/firefight without a complete armorer's kit: No go, pal.
Lets clear one of the numerous malfunctions while under fire: Cousin of mine, bayoneted in foxhole while doing just this.

One two three four, M16s are really poor!
Two four six eight, ARs do not operate!
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:24 PM   #9
MAD DOG
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Dude, here is a bit of CORRECT info:
The .223 is an INSULT Rifle Round.

Those shot with it tend to get really insulted rather than really dead.

"Assault rifles" are something dreamed up by the GUN grabbing socialistas.
I never seen one.
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:24 PM   #10
STLRN
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Not really sure, since I have spent over ten years in the Marine Corps, all in the combat arms and never had a real problem with a M16. Most of its problems seem to crop up from user errors, vice weapon errors. If you look at those units in the US that are often allowed to carry what they desire, you still see them carrying M16s.
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:32 PM   #11
Element
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All of the pansy AR/M16 fans need to shoot a REAL GUN like a FN\FAL. Think about it real hard what would you rather have in battle 308 or 223?? And if you have a problem with the extra weight, like I said pansy AR/M16 fans hit the gym. The extra work for a real gun is worth it.
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:36 PM   #12
MAD DOG
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"If you look at those units in the US that are often allowed to carry what they desire, you still see them carrying M16s"...

And their other choices are???
Gimme a break. The AR15/M16 Insult rifle is their only issue choice in 99% of the units that are "Allowed to carry their choice".

I know some SEALS that carry HK 91s, and some that carry other stuff like AKs. I also know that they are not ISSUED any of these, and have to buy them out of pocket. They carry these because they WORK, not because they are trendy.

If I were ever unfortunate enough to be given FREE (made by lowest bidder) M16s and the training that goes with them, I would probably carry one right up until the moment I had my first problem with one in combat conditions, at which time I would opt to re-select weapons or go home in a bag.
Problem is, the learning curve in combat is necessarily fairly steep, whereas on the USMC parade ground or rifle range, it is not nearly so taxing.

Point being: The AR rifle can not make any errors. It was made IN error. It is the WRONG TOOL for the job.
The rifle has to be tough enough to survive high stress user errors (without getting insulted), and KEEP WORKING.
Pansy gun... but don't ask, don't tell,
It may get insulted.


[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 07, 2000).]
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:49 PM   #13
Nukem
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Not me! I've got five of them
BTW, I feel the same way about Glocks.
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Old November 7, 2000, 08:53 PM   #14
MAD DOG
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I only have three of the damned things, does that mean that I was 40% less gullible than you were?

Glocks are fine, and my wife sells Tupperware, so I can always get the spare parts I need.



[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 07, 2000).]
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Old November 7, 2000, 09:14 PM   #15
DUDE
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the M16 is a good gun and the .223-round is a good round to. if you look at the SEALs yes they do carry H&K Rifles and AK47s to but if you look at it you will see that 60% of SEALs carry Colt M4 Carbines or M4A1 Carbines. and about the .223-round it's a good round, one .223 can put down a 200lb deer, and it will go throuh a 0.25in steel plate at 250-yards and if your in combat you not going to shoot more then 150-yards any way

------------------
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CO LRRP Team
of the Second Ranger Battalion Charlie Company in WW2 Online.
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Old November 7, 2000, 09:33 PM   #16
MAD DOG
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"...and if your in combat you not going to shoot more then 150-yards any way"

Which is of course, why there are so many SEAL snipers zeroing (.308s) at 600 yards...

I seldom see deer in combat these days.

I am more worried about an adrenaline and PCP crazed gangbanger that needs some real attention from a SERIOUS round, something that will not simply INSULT him.

BTW: Is "WWII Online" some sort of cyber world battle thing that you play on the computer?

[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 07, 2000).]
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Old November 7, 2000, 09:38 PM   #17
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MAD DOG; Let it all hang out on this election night. Results from the east are pissin' me off but hell let's talk guns. I'm a hardcore Mini-14 person myself. It's been a great rifle for me. Stone cold reliable with hi-cap PMI mags. That said, my shootin' buddy a year or so ago bought a Colt H-Bar. I hate to admit this but it's sweet! Reliability? His hasn't choked yet and neither has mine. His H-Bar seems alot bulkier than my Mini. Just alot of gun I guess. Accuracy? His H-Bar kicks ass! It's one accurate rifle. Will I ever own one? Probably not. I've never been able to justify the expense. My experience with a Colt H-Bar has been a good one. Just my thoughts, J. Parker
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Old November 7, 2000, 09:48 PM   #18
MAD DOG
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Has he been in COMBAT with his HBAR, or just out to the range for some paper work?

I never faulted the AR (on the rare occasions when its fullyfunctioning)
on its accuracy. they can indeed be accurate. They are NOT durable or reliable in the battle field.

There are a lot of guns that are fine for low stress, recreational use, and the AR may be one of them in some formats.
What we are talking about here are COMBAT weapons, not match rifles and fun guns.
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Old November 7, 2000, 09:57 PM   #19
Element
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I've also seen and even talked to some Seals who chose the M14 for there tool of the trade. You can't deny that it wasn't a good pick for a battle rifle.
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Old November 7, 2000, 10:33 PM   #20
J. Parker
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MAD DOG; I'm sorry I only read your first RANT. Okay now, you've modified your first RANT to include a COMBAT round and rifle. Sooooo...I'm waiting for the next modification. You're just RANTING...but that's okay because we all do it. J. Parker
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Old November 7, 2000, 10:43 PM   #21
dZ
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the AK is the dodge dart of gun design,
the AR is more like the aircooled beetle

i like the way Afgani smiths can make an AK from raw materials too.

A mass market Robinson M96 for 500 bucks would be quite the system.

I really like my .308 vepr.

dZ
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Old November 7, 2000, 10:49 PM   #22
El Rojo
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Screw the media for calling Florida so early!
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Old November 7, 2000, 10:52 PM   #23
SamC
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Please send me all of your "bad AR-15s". I'll give them a nice home with my ARs. I'll even be glad to accept any "orphans" out there too. SamC
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Old November 7, 2000, 10:52 PM   #24
Steve Smith
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Mad Dog, you and I may disagree on the .505 Gibbs, but we can reach across state lines and shake hands on this one! Really, I don't "hate" the ARs, but I certainly don't like them. There are a lot of other rifles out there that I would buy before spending the money on an AR. Recently, I was looking for my first .308 semi-auto (battle rifle). I was looking at the AR-10 (no, it hasn't been in combat). I just could not get more than 5 out of 100 guys to say that it was reliable. I'm glad I bought the M1A. Now, I think I'll go an stare at the M1A, the FAL, and the AK in my safe...they all work great!
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Old November 7, 2000, 11:13 PM   #25
DUDE
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what i said was a Soldier in Combat is not going to shoot his Rifle more then 150-yards, not a Sniper. and a Sniper i'd say needs a .308 Rifle;0

o and in you like to no what WW2 Online is go to http://www.wwiionline.com and have a look

------------------
Technical Sergeant Andrew Robert Smith
CO LRRP Team
of the Second Ranger Battalion Charlie Company in WW2 Online.
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