Mixing powders

[schill32]

I was woundering? Can you mix all of the same powders together as in
Varget with Varget, H4895 with H4895 and so on as long as they match.
I know not to mix different powder numbers or different names together.
I wanted to get a keg of powder of Varget and was only able to get 1lbers from different stores and wanted to take the 1lbers and mix them together. Does any one see a problem with this. This way I have at I have a batch of 8lbs that is the same.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks Steve

[nhyrum]

I'd really only do it if they're the same lot number. They aren't made in 1lb batches. They were made together should be able to go back together

[Stats Shooter]

I do it all the time when they are the same batch number.

[Ifishsum]

should be fine

[Stats Shooter]

I said earlier that I do it when it is the same lot, but I guess it also depends on if you work up a new load with every single new powder batch.
Things can vary a little from lot to lot, but do you work up a new load with a new lot of powder? If not then I'm not sure even mixing different lots matters much.

[Jim Watson]

I haven't seen the lot variation that I read about on the internet. Except with black.
Nothing wrong with combining and blending pounds of the same powder.

[BigJimP]

I don't see a problem with it ....especially if it's 1 lb bottles of new production and same powder. ( I have been buying TiteGroup in 1 lb bottles / 10 to a case....and I mix 6 or 8 of them into an empty 8 lb keg of TiteGroup). Mixing them into the larger keg makes it easier to deal with getting rid of static elec....easier to store on shelf, etc..

I wouldn't mix a bottle or keg that was several yrs old with a new production run...

[Unclenick]

Combining bottles with the same lot number does not even require mixing. Just funnel them into the big container, if you have some reason to. Personally, I'd figure just leaving them unopened in an ammo can will keep environmental influences to a minimum, so that's what I'd do, and open them as needed.

Combining different lots has two drawbacks: One is that they do need blending, and if they have different burn rates your result will be a burn rate in between the two. The other is the age difference in the lots means they will now both be as fresh and have storage longevity equal to the older of the two.

These days, canister grade powders for handloaders are kept as constant in burn rate as possible to keep load book recipes valid, but in the past they varied more. Bulk powders used by large scale ammunition makers can still vary a fair amount (because they use pressure guns rather than recipes to determine charge weight, so the cheaper bulk grade makes sense for them to use). I mention that because you would NOT want to mix, say, canister grade WC844 (H335) with surplus bulk grade WC844. The resulting burn rate is almost certain to be different, and the older powder will determine the life expectancy of the combined powders. A surplus powder often is made surplus because it's too old to put into new ammunition intended for long term stockpiling, or else it is collected from pulled down ammunition that was made surplus because it had already passed its stockpile expiration date.

The aging issue becomes more complicated with canister grade powder because it is intrinsically shorter lived than bulk powder. This is because the burn rate is controlled by blending a new bulk lot with older faster or slower bulk lots, as needed to raise or lower the rate, to arrive at canister grade powder. So canister grade powder is only as young as the oldest lot blended in to control its burn rate is. This process occasionally backfires on the manufacturer, leading to recalling a powder that was breaking down too soon after leaving the shelf.

All of this begs the question, can you blend powders properly without risk or damage and know that it is adequately combined?

[243winxb]

I vote no mixing, unless they are the same lot number, from the same supplier.

[P5 Guy]

I see no problem mixing the dregs from an old jug into the new purchase, I'm not sure how that would work mixing pounds of powder that are far apart in manufacturing dates.
Powder makers bust their butts making certain that their offerings remain consistent over their various lots of the SAME powder.

[mikld]

I wouldn't mix them even if they were the same lot number. Why would I? Many reloaders are concerned with "powder going bad" so why open a sealed bottle and dump it into another jug, exposing it to the atmosphere? I wasn't able to get a large container of IMR4064, so I bough a few one pounders. All have the same number on the side so I won't need any work up and storage is no big deal so, why? Besides, when I'm reloading I keep the powder bottle/jug on the bench and it's much easier to move a 1 lb. bottle and find room on the bench (and pour into my powder measure, and pour remaining powder back into the jug) than an 8 lb. jug...

Is it an "all the eggs in the same basket" thing?

[T. O'Heir]

"...have a batch of 8lbs that is the same..." Can't imagine why you think that will help anything, but mixing like powders is fine from a safety POV. If you have 8 one pound cans, you still have 8 pounds.
One powder lot will be slightly different than another in that it produces the same range of velocities and pressures in a particular cartridge, but not different enough to matter.

[black mamba]

If all the powder is new, even if the lots are different, I would do exactly as you describe: mix them all together (mixed thoroughly) so you have 8 pounds of the same burn rate powder. That way you don't have to constantly redevelop loads when a 1 pounder runs out. The only draw back to this would be if it takes you just years and years to use the 8 pounds. If that is the case, then I would blend half of them together to have 4 pounds of mixed lots, and leave the other 4 pounds unopened for future use.

[FITASC]

Mix away and go shoot

[RC20]

Unclick pretty well sums it up.

that said, I do not keep powders all that long and try to buy 8 lb.

Even with 1 lbs I mix the last of one with the other and keep going

I am not keeping powders so long that longevity is an issue and they are kept closed when not in use of course.

I suspect I can't shoot any better than the powered variation would be anyway and nothing I shoot is up to max let alone pushed to above.

If I was taking it up past the listed loads for a given gun I would probably reconsider and use only straight and mix the remnants for lower loads.

[jmr40]

When I get near the bottom of a can of powder I pour it into the next can of the same exact powder. Never had a problem mixing lots. This is exactly what the factory does when finishing up one batch and going to the next.

[Bravo1]

Mix the same brand regardless of lot numbers. I go through about 2 pounds a month for plinking ammo and I haven't noticed any difference.

[schill32]

Thanks for all the replies.
I have no interest in mixing lot numbers the same, I think that just doing nothing. just wanted to know for different lot numbers just because I could not buy an 8lber. I just wanted to have at least 8lbs put together for one consistent batch.
I'll just mix the same powders together.
Thanks Steve

[cdoc42]

The discussion about mixing old and new same powders, resulting in a longevity equal to that of the oldest powder, raised this question:

What is the expected longevity (i.e., stability) of any canister powder used by handloaders? In 40 years I only had one can of powder that had obviously deteriorated. It didn't have that somewhat acrid smell and it appeared that a rusty fine powder had accumulated.

I received some powders from the wife of a friend who passed away and I know some are at least 30 years old. They look and smell o.k. but is there any other way to predict deterioration or potential burn rate change other than loading a few comparative rounds?

[g.willikers]

I buy vitamins, canned and bottled food in the small versions.
They last longer than larger ones that have been opened a long time.
Might not be the same with chemicals, but then it might.
So, another vote for keeping the powder in the 1lb containers and use as needed.
Just 'cause.
Besides, if you happen to screw up somehow, you will only loose that 1 lb.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by jmr40

This is exactly what the factory does when finishing up one batch and going to the next.

Where did you get that idea?

Hodgdon's manual says they keep their Australian-made Extreme powder line burn rates to ±3%. If you develop a load with a lot that is 3% low, then buy a lot that is 3% high and make up the same load, QuickLOAD shows a 168 grain .308 load of H4895 would see the peak pressure increase about 11%, which is within SAAMI limits for round variation within a lot that averages their maximum pressure number, but would easily cause sticky bolt lift and other pressure signs in a gun being loaded near maximum. Since the gas quantity is the same, muzzle pressure in a standard rifle barrel doesn't change much and the total effect on velocity is only about 2.4%. But still, that worked out to over 60 fps in the load I was playing with. This is an instance in which a chronograph would give you a heads up about possible pressure change effects. Of more interest to most target shooters is the change in barrel time was over 4%, which is enough to move you off a sweet spot.

[243winxb]

Take 3 different lots of powder. .Set a powder measure to a set volume. Compare weights from each, after settling the powder.

Had 3 cans of IMR 4895 bought around the same time. One rusted out the can. Sure glad i didnt mix the 3 one pound cans.

[Nick_C_S]

I'd figure just leaving them unopened in an ammo can will keep environmental influences to a minimum, so that's what I'd do, and open them as needed.

From Unclenick; post #8; first paragraph; last sentence.

. . ^^ Says it all for me. ^^

[noylj]

First, folks cuss me out when I try to explain that you need to do some minimal load work-up when the lot number changes and then folks think that mixing 2400 with 2400 will cause your gun to blow up.
So, if you don't need to do load work up on a new lot of powder, there can be no problem with adding some of the old lot to the new lot.
Or, you accept that load work-up is needed for a new lot of powder and you would never mix an old lot with a new lot.
Personally, I have found lot variations that have required an adjustment to the charge weight and I have successfully mixed a small amount of powder A into another container of powder A, but we are told NOT to so—so, don't do it.
I notice that many powders are made up of at least three different sized kernels, so every time I pick up a powder keg, I start to mix the powder in the keg (I turn the keg over and over and side-to-side, as i don't want all the small kernels to collect at the bottom).

Powder is made in batches and the batches get blended together to make a lot.

[Metal god]

I mix the last little bit of one pound into the new one pounder all the time . I then blend the powder thoroughly . I also write mixed lots and the other lot number on the new can just in case a recall or something so I can identify the bad lot . I'll add these are always cans that will be used rather quickly .

I how ever have a additional question to this . I've only done it with rifle powders ( IMR 4895 , 4064 , H335 etc ) I've not used enough of any one pistol powder to blend together yet although I do have an HS-6 that is just about gone . Would the faster burning pistol powders be less conducive to blending ?