Taurus Agrees To $39 Million Settlement In Defective Pistol Case

Whirlwind06 · July 30, 2015, 07:27 AM

I haven't seen this posted on the forum yet. If you have one of these models might want to get it fixed.

http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/gun...e-pistol-case/

Quote:

Settlement could include as many as 100,000 Taurus semi-autos

Brazil-based handgun maker Forjas Taurus SA has agreed to a $39 million settlement in a class action lawsuit alleging some of the company’s most popular semi-automatic handguns can discharge when dropped and have a defective safety that allows the gun to fire even when it’s engaged.

The settlement agreement covers nine Taurus models, including the PT-111 Millennium; PT-132 Millennium; PT-138 Millennium; PT-140 Millennium; PT-145 Millennium; PT-745 Millennium; PT-609; PT-640 and PT-24/7, Taurus says.

KevininPa · August 1, 2015, 09:04 PM

...............does that mean it worked?

Sorry, couldn't resist. Had a bad revolver that went back. Twice.

Whirlwind06 · August 2, 2015, 10:58 AM

To me this says a lot about what kind of company Taurus is, a number of other manufacturers have issued volunteerary recalls. They had to be sued.

whip1 · August 2, 2015, 11:01 AM

With so many other options, I can't imagine spending money on poorly made guns.

6mm · August 2, 2015, 11:16 AM

Bought a Taurus PT111 G2 a few months ago, for my daughter as her first 9mm. This pistol is not under recall. We have put about 600 rds thru it with only 4 failures to eject. For this purpose I bought for, as a learning tool, it is a good pistol. She is learning her basic skills, and next year when she is old enough and ready for your CCW, she will be able to do it in confidence.

A pause for the COZ · August 2, 2015, 11:21 AM

I have a PT111 Millennium Pro. I have never had an issue with it.
But then again I have never dropped it.

Explains why the New PT111's were selling for $199 a while ago. I bet they used that to set the base line for each pistol. Here I though they were just giving us a good deal.

I suppose when it is all official, I will send mine in.

samsmix · August 2, 2015, 04:06 PM

The only Taurus autos I would have ever considered owning were their PT-92 & -99 Beretta knock offs. They seemed okay but every other person I ever knew that bought a Taurus auto had issues with it.

Fishbed77 · August 2, 2015, 04:44 PM

Quote:

The only Taurus autos I would have ever considered owning were their PT-92 & -99 Beretta knock offs. They seemed okay but every other person I ever knew that bought a Taurus auto had issues with it.

I've fired my brother-in-law's PT92 on numerous occasions. I would not consider it to be reliable pistol, due to numerous difficult-to-diagnose failures to extract.

samsmix · August 2, 2015, 05:18 PM

Happens to those too I guess.

I used to work with a guy who carried a PT-92. It was so beat up it looked like it was thrown in a blender and allowed to just bounce around for a bit, but he shot it well and it was reliable. That said, there can be a lot of gun to gun variance with a Taurus.

I do wish Beretta would adopt a frame mounted safety. I prefer it to one that has to be "dug up".

Dragline45 · August 2, 2015, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Bought a Taurus PT111 G2 a few months ago, for my daughter as her first 9mm. This pistol is not under recall. We have put about 600 rds thru it with only 4 failures to eject.

That's a pretty high failure rate.

samsmix · August 2, 2015, 06:20 PM

Ditto.

I don't know your daughters round counts, but for discussion sake I will give her two average mags of 15 rounds, and say that a shooting will take one full mag since we don't know at what point in the mag the malfunction may occur.

600rounds = 40 mags, giving her a 10% chance of experiencing a failure in a given shooting IF she doesn't reload. In any fight where she is forced to reload (admittedly rare for civilians) she has a 20% chance of experiencing not only a stoppage, but the most time consuming one to clear, a FTE/double feed.

I would not give my kid a gun to defend herself if I knew it had a 1in 5 chance of failure when she needs it. I did see that it was just for training, but that kind of quality wouldn't get it for me. Not faulting your decision as I have been tempted to do the same numerous times, but I will learn from your experience and buy better quality.

6mm · August 2, 2015, 08:37 PM

The PT111 G2 is for her training, not for defense use. I knew it wasn't perfect when I got it. But she is getting the experience of malfunction drills. If I gave her my old Glock 19, which has had just one malfunction in over 10k, she wouldn't learn malfunction drills as well as with the Taurus. (FYI failure was ammo related).

The failures we have had with the Taurus were within the first 400rds. There actually hasn't been any in the last 200 rds. Might have just need broken in. If this keeps up going to have to use the old trick of empty cases or snap caps in the magazine.

lunger · August 2, 2015, 08:38 PM

Wow that must be that new math they talk about. 4 out of 600 is a one in five chance of failure.

If this is a new gun a break in period is usually figured in.

Pico · August 2, 2015, 10:55 PM

The only Taurus autos I would have ever considered owning were their PT-92 & -99 Beretta knock offs.

The Taurus PT-92 is not a knock off of the 92FS. More accurately, both guns were derived from the original Beretta design and have evolved in slightly divergent paths: the one for the 92FS dictated mostly by the requirements of the US Military.

I personally prefer the frame mounted safety on the PT-92 as well as the ability to carry the gun cocked and locked like a 1911. Others may prefer the Beretta's safety system and that is fine as well. Having freedom of choice is a good thing.

I have no need to impress anyone with what I have or feel insecure about owning a Taurus as long as it works. I had a perfectly fine Millenium PT-145 years ago and got rid of it mostly due to reading too much internet drivel about how bad Taurus is.

My real world experience is I have never had a problem with my PT-92 or that PT-145, my friends have never had any issues with their Taurus semis and revolvers, and I suspect most folks who slam Taurus have never even shot one much less own one.

Pico

samsmix · August 3, 2015, 01:22 AM

I've shot 'em, owned 'em and carried 'em. If I couldn't afford better I would still carry one but it would probably be a revolver if it was not a full sized PT-92/99. I have seen too many of their little guns on the range to like em. For the guy or gal with the right mindset they are way WAY better than nothing, and way better than a Hi-point, just not my first choice. YMMV.

It was a 1 in 5 chance that any given pair of 15 round mags would experience the problem. That does hold up to mathematic scrutiny, except if memory serves I think the PT-111 uses a smaller mag. I don't remember.
...but as 6mm said its for training and is also starting to smooth out.

6mm,
Sorry, I hope you don't think I was trashing your decision to buy one. Like I said, I've been tempted to a number of times. I might still, as It would be nice to have a weapon with an identical manual of arms to my wife's XD .40 while teaching her.

Pico,
Yes I know the PT-92 was formerly a licensed copy made on genuine Beretta equipment, but the Brazilians eventually went the un-licensed route, hence the knockoff comment. While they both evolved from an original Beretta design, only one of them IS a Beretta. Don't get me wrong, there are times in firearms history where the knock offs are the better gun...like the CETME vs. H&K rifles.
I too enjoy Taurus's frame mounted safety, as it just seems faster/easier to access.

Fishbed77 · August 3, 2015, 10:20 AM

Quote:

I suspect most folks who slam Taurus have never even shot one much less own one.

I have personal experience with enough Taurus products to know that I would never spend my hard-earned money on one. In addition to the aforementioned misadventures with a PT92 (and similar problems with a PT100), and cycling problems with a 709, I've shot a .44 Mag Taurus revolver with the cylinder chambers so poorly milled that spent cases could only be ejected with the aid of a rod and hammer. If you can't even manufacture a revolver that is reliable and generally in-spec, how can you expect semi-autos to be consistently well-made?

No thanks. With low-cost, high-quality semi-auto options available these days from S&W, Ruger, SIG, Walther, and others, I see no need to bother with Taurus.

tallball · August 3, 2015, 01:52 PM

I was younger and "didn't know any better". Eventually I owned around ten Taurus products, mostly older revolvers and Beretta copies. One revolver (a newer one) had to be sent back twice. The others have been reliable. Some have mediocre triggers. A few have very good ones.

IIRC correctly, Taurus purchased the Brazilian Beretta factory, machinery, and technical drawings after Beretta's government contract was finished. Beretta's patent on the 92 is expired, so Taurus does not have to pay them royalties.

August 1, 2015, 09:04 PM	#2
KevininPa Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2007 Posts: 253	If a Taurus is defective......... ...............does that mean it worked? Sorry, couldn't resist. Had a bad revolver that went back. Twice.

August 2, 2015, 11:16 AM	#5
6mm Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2000 Location: Nebraska Posts: 198	Bought a Taurus PT111 G2 a few months ago, for my daughter as her first 9mm. This pistol is not under recall. We have put about 600 rds thru it with only 4 failures to eject. For this purpose I bought for, as a learning tool, it is a good pistol. She is learning her basic skills, and next year when she is old enough and ready for your CCW, she will be able to do it in confidence. __________________ You carry a Badge, You carry a Gun Sean Connery - The Untouchables Here endth the lesson

August 2, 2015, 04:06 PM	#7
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	The only Taurus autos I would have ever considered owning were their PT-92 & -99 Beretta knock offs. They seemed okay but every other person I ever knew that bought a Taurus auto had issues with it. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 2, 2015, 05:18 PM	#9
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	Happens to those too I guess. I used to work with a guy who carried a PT-92. It was so beat up it looked like it was thrown in a blender and allowed to just bounce around for a bit, but he shot it well and it was reliable. That said, there can be a lot of gun to gun variance with a Taurus. I do wish Beretta would adopt a frame mounted safety. I prefer it to one that has to be "dug up". __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 2, 2015, 06:20 PM	#11
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	Ditto. I don't know your daughters round counts, but for discussion sake I will give her two average mags of 15 rounds, and say that a shooting will take one full mag since we don't know at what point in the mag the malfunction may occur. 600rounds = 40 mags, giving her a 10% chance of experiencing a failure in a given shooting IF she doesn't reload. In any fight where she is forced to reload (admittedly rare for civilians) she has a 20% chance of experiencing not only a stoppage, but the most time consuming one to clear, a FTE/double feed. I would not give my kid a gun to defend herself if I knew it had a 1in 5 chance of failure when she needs it. I did see that it was just for training, but that kind of quality wouldn't get it for me. Not faulting your decision as I have been tempted to do the same numerous times, but I will learn from your experience and buy better quality. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 2, 2015, 10:58 AM	#3
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	To me this says a lot about what kind of company Taurus is, a number of other manufacturers have issued volunteerary recalls. They had to be sued.

August 2, 2015, 11:01 AM	#4
whip1 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 383	With so many other options, I can't imagine spending money on poorly made guns.

August 2, 2015, 11:21 AM	#6
A pause for the COZ Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2012 Location: Braham, Minnesota Posts: 1,314	I have a PT111 Millennium Pro. I have never had an issue with it. But then again I have never dropped it. Explains why the New PT111's were selling for $199 a while ago. I bet they used that to set the base line for each pistol. Here I though they were just giving us a good deal. I suppose when it is all official, I will send mine in.

August 2, 2015, 08:37 PM	#12
6mm Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2000 Location: Nebraska Posts: 198	The PT111 G2 is for her training, not for defense use. I knew it wasn't perfect when I got it. But she is getting the experience of malfunction drills. If I gave her my old Glock 19, which has had just one malfunction in over 10k, she wouldn't learn malfunction drills as well as with the Taurus. (FYI failure was ammo related). The failures we have had with the Taurus were within the first 400rds. There actually hasn't been any in the last 200 rds. Might have just need broken in. If this keeps up going to have to use the old trick of empty cases or snap caps in the magazine. __________________ You carry a Badge, You carry a Gun Sean Connery - The Untouchables Here endth the lesson

August 2, 2015, 08:38 PM	#13
lunger Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Posts: 459	Wow that must be that new math they talk about. 4 out of 600 is a one in five chance of failure. If this is a new gun a break in period is usually figured in.

August 2, 2015, 10:55 PM	#14
Pico Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2002 Location: Ga Posts: 515	PT-92 knock off The only Taurus autos I would have ever considered owning were their PT-92 & -99 Beretta knock offs. The Taurus PT-92 is not a knock off of the 92FS. More accurately, both guns were derived from the original Beretta design and have evolved in slightly divergent paths: the one for the 92FS dictated mostly by the requirements of the US Military. I personally prefer the frame mounted safety on the PT-92 as well as the ability to carry the gun cocked and locked like a 1911. Others may prefer the Beretta's safety system and that is fine as well. Having freedom of choice is a good thing. I have no need to impress anyone with what I have or feel insecure about owning a Taurus as long as it works. I had a perfectly fine Millenium PT-145 years ago and got rid of it mostly due to reading too much internet drivel about how bad Taurus is. My real world experience is I have never had a problem with my PT-92 or that PT-145, my friends have never had any issues with their Taurus semis and revolvers, and I suspect most folks who slam Taurus have never even shot one much less own one. Pico

August 3, 2015, 01:22 AM	#15
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	I've shot 'em, owned 'em and carried 'em. If I couldn't afford better I would still carry one but it would probably be a revolver if it was not a full sized PT-92/99. I have seen too many of their little guns on the range to like em. For the guy or gal with the right mindset they are way WAY better than nothing, and way better than a Hi-point, just not my first choice. YMMV. It was a 1 in 5 chance that any given pair of 15 round mags would experience the problem. That does hold up to mathematic scrutiny, except if memory serves I think the PT-111 uses a smaller mag. I don't remember. ...but as 6mm said its for training and is also starting to smooth out. 6mm, Sorry, I hope you don't think I was trashing your decision to buy one. Like I said, I've been tempted to a number of times. I might still, as It would be nice to have a weapon with an identical manual of arms to my wife's XD .40 while teaching her. Pico, Yes I know the PT-92 was formerly a licensed copy made on genuine Beretta equipment, but the Brazilians eventually went the un-licensed route, hence the knockoff comment. While they both evolved from an original Beretta design, only one of them IS a Beretta. Don't get me wrong, there are times in firearms history where the knock offs are the better gun...like the CETME vs. H&K rifles. I too enjoy Taurus's frame mounted safety, as it just seems faster/easier to access. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 3, 2015, 01:52 PM	#17
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	I was younger and "didn't know any better". Eventually I owned around ten Taurus products, mostly older revolvers and Beretta copies. One revolver (a newer one) had to be sent back twice. The others have been reliable. Some have mediocre triggers. A few have very good ones. IIRC correctly, Taurus purchased the Brazilian Beretta factory, machinery, and technical drawings after Beretta's government contract was finished. Beretta's patent on the 92 is expired, so Taurus does not have to pay them royalties. Last edited by tallball; August 3, 2015 at 01:59 PM.