Polish P-64

[zachattack2]

I think I am going to get the polish P-64 in 9x18 makarov.

What do you all think of the durability and quality of these guns? And is the 9x18 makarov to weak for self defense?

Thanks,
Zach

[noelf2]

Nice size for conceal carry. A bit heavy for pocket carry. Very reliable. Suitable cartridge for self defense IMO. Double action trigger pull from hell. Perfect single action trigger pull. Wolff springs fixed the double action pull for me. I like it, and carry it at times.

[Cheapshooter]

The good:
Very well built all steel semi-auto. As for the 9X18 Makarov cartridge, think 380acp. Almost identical in performance. A little harder to find. Especially in a loading other than Euro made FMJ. However, Hornady does offer an XTP hollow point round that has shown good results in ballistic gel. They also offer an FTX Critical Defenseround.
The bad:
Very well built all steel semi-auto. OK in a decent IWB holster if you can find one made for it. But way too big, and heavy for pocket carry, and in my opinion, for a SD gun chambered in 380acp.
DA trigger pull is very heavy as is. Wolfe Springs is the answer.
I'm not sure if it is common to all, or just mine, but the SA trigger pull is extremely light. Nothing changing the hammer spring changed either. It was very light the day I got it. Too light in fact. Unintended double taps can be quite common if you do not pay particular attention when shooting. Something that could be very bad in a SD situation.
Bottom line, my choice for CCW pistol in the same power range is the Ruger LCP. But my P64 gets lots of range time.

[Doyle]

It's my main carry gun. Built like a tank. Very easy to strip and clean. Replacement springs are a must if you want to shoot DA. While buying the mainspring, go ahead and get the heavier recoil spring too. Civilian ammo has a tad more recoil than the milspec stuff it was originally designed for so having a stronger recoil spring makes it feel a little better.

Also, those small-framed 9x18s don't normally do well with the 115grn ammo. Stick to the 94/95 gr stuff.

[noelf2]

I'm not sure if it is common to all, or just mine, but the SA trigger pull is extremely light. Nothing changing the hammer spring changed either. It was very light the day I got it. Too light in fact.

Changing the hammer spring on a P-64 will definitely change the SA pull as well. It may have been light when you got it, but it will surely be lighter after installing a reduced hammer spring. The 17 lb hammer spring made my SA pull very light. I put the 18 lb hammer spring in instead. Made it perfect for me. Never an unintentional double tap here.

[Doyle]

Noelf2 is right. You probably need to bump your mainspring up by one lb. This spring changing thing is sometimes trial-and-error. My first P-64 needed an 18lb mainspring to be perfect. On my 2nd one, the 18lb mainspring was still too heavy and I needed to go to a 17lb spring.

[cc-hangfire]

+1 on the comments above. Tough as nails, reliable, accurate (it was designed as a military & police handgun, so it had to be all of these). It is designed like the Walther PP/PPK so it is a proven design, and I had no slide bite so thats better than the PP/PPK.

In addition to the heavy DA trigger (SA is actually pretty good, in the +/-6# range), it kicks like a mule! I'd recommend trying one out if you can before buying. The narrow grip focuses recoil in the web if the hand, and can get uncomfortable for lots of range shooting. For personal defense, recoil isn't a big deal.

[zachattack2]

it kicks like a mule!

Yes I have heard that before. But I have shot a 7.62x25 tokerev many times and that has some kick., would the P64 have more kick than that?

Also, for a spring to make the The trigger pull less, DA and SA, what is a good spring for that?

Thanks,
Zach

[Doyle]

For the spring, like I said before - it is sometimes a trial-and-error thing. Wolf makes the springs in various weights. When I used to be active over on the P-64 forum, 18lb was the general favorite but sometimes you get one like mine that needs a 17lb spring. If you go too low you wind up getting double-taps and you also risk the mag release dropping when you shoot (same spring also holds the mag release prawl).

Recoil isn't terrible. Actual recoil is less than a 9mm Luger. The problem is that the relativley small backtrap area of the P-64 concentrates that recoil right into the web of your hand. If you are going to be doing an extended range session, you might want to wear a shooting glove.

[Gunfixr]

Ive had one for years, its one of my carry pieces.
There werent wolff springs for it then, used a ppk mainspring to lighten the da pull. Cerakoted it because it rusted with all the carrying. I found a leather iwb holster that fits it, ill have to see what its made for.
I tried the hornady jhps, but the silver bear ones sounded hotter, and had more recoil, so i just use those.
Heavy, but well built, and accurate.

[Cheapshooter]

Changing the hammer spring on a P-64 will definitely change the SA pull as well. It may have been light when you got it

Actually I shot mine a lot before changing the spring, and there was no noticeable difference in the SA pull. Very light either way.

[Cheapshooter]

it kicks like a mule!

You must have a very weak, three legged mule!

[cc-hangfire]

Since its drawn a question and comment, I'll clarify some.

I can shoot my FN Hi Power, Glock 26, Beretta 96, or other full sized handguns at the range longer than I can afford ammo for them (300-400 rounds), and not notice any recoil.

I can shoot my Kel Tec P11 about 200 rounds and know it's snappy.

I can shoot my pocket carry Kel Tec P3AT or the Polish P64 about 50 -100 rounds, and it's not really fun after that. My hand's not bleeding, and I'm not crying like a little girl. I can shoot 'em longer than that, but but its not as comfortable as the duty sized guns.

Just physics: the lighter the gun and the thinner the grip, the more the felt recoil since the force is applied to a smaller area.

[noelf2]

Actually I shot mine a lot before changing the spring, and there was no noticeable difference in the SA pull. Very light either way.

Fair enough. Just know that it is mechanically impossible in a P-64 to change the spring and have no difference in both SA and DA pull. Noticed, or not.

[Ibmikey]

I have a couple of P64's and with decent checkered grips for a no slip hold they shoot well if a bit blustery. I can shoot my Glock 42 (380) three times more than the 9 Mak in a P 64 because of the bite it does to my palm. The pistol is Abrams tank tough, heavy, reasonably accurate, and disappears under clothing . Mine came from the "like new" bucket and appeared unfired I think current offerings are for used (and show it) pistols which is ok because you will never wear one out

[Polinese]

Not to thread hijack but are there any parts on these that tend to break and is it easy to come by spare parts if something does need replacing?

[Doyle]

Parts seem to be readily available. Most seem to be from the importers who stripped down worn guns. Of course,there won't be any new parts. There is nothing on these little guns that has a tendency to break but all parts will eventually wear with usage. The biggest breakage I'm aware of is with the plastic grip. If you screw that grip screw in too tight, it will crack the grip.

[Polinese]

Gotcha, gotta love old designs. Built to last unlike the disposable designs of today.

[amd6547]

I have heard of the safety drum breaking. For this reason, I lower the hammer with my thumb when decocking my P64.
The recoil is pretty sharp, and I say that as someone who enjoys shooting full power 357mag and 44mag revolvers.
In my case, I begin to feel the pain in my pinky finger against the finger extension of the mag. The heavier Wolff recoil spring helps a lot in this regard.

I bought mine early on in the import cycle. At that time, nobody wanted them, and I paid $139. Made in '74, it looks like new, and has a discrete import mark under the dust over. The DA trigger was unusable in mine until I installed the lower power mainspring. I also did a little polish on the inside right side of the slide, as it seemed the trigger bar pushed out against it when pulled. I keep that area lubed. The DA trigger is very usable, now.
It has been completely reliable with anything, including JHP loads.
The P64 is so thin, it is easy to carry IWB, and fits in most PPK holsters.
After I got mine, I bought a surplus Polish shoulder holster. These were dismissed as junky and were about $5 online. I darkened the unfinished leather, and it looks much better. This rig weighs next to nothing, and the P64 is very comfortable to wear this way.
I just wish some genuine military surplus ball ammo would show up cheap by the spam can.

[Ignition Override]

Three middle-aged friends who are very seasoned gun owners carry them, and swear by them. Although the DA is still a bit too heavy for me to enjoy shooting the P-64, something odd happened regarding the very snappy recoil.

Recently I bought a PPK/S with a fairly sharp recoil, and quickly got used to it.
Had a chance to try a friend's P-64 again and the recoil was not nearly as bad as it had seemed. All parts are original.

With a better trigger or hammer spring (?), I can picture owning it, but just bought a CZ-82 and EG Makarov.
If you live in n.w. MS, the fairly new gun shop in Hernando MS had a worn P-64 two weeks ago, listed at approx. $300. High priced (list), but it might still be available.

[amd6547]

I have a CZ82 and used to own a EG Mak...both excellent pistols.
But the P64 is in another class as far as ease of carry. It fits in most PPK holsters, and slipping in the the waist is no burden whatsoever. Literally a gun you forget you are carrying.

[Capybara]

I have mine on my CCW as my BU gun. Built like a tank, I shoot mine very well, considering the sights suck because they are so tiny and hard to see. But for some reason, I am pretty accurate with this gun. more so than my main gun. That said, 9x18 Mak is not a very good SD cartridge although with the right ammo, it will barely pass the FBI standard for 12-18" of penetration, expansion, etc.

As far as the recoil, good grief, this little pistol isn't bad at all. But I like shooting 8mm Mausers with a steel butt plate, M44s and my AOW with 3" magnum slugs for fun so I guess it is all relative. Compared to a .22, yes, it has some snap to it, but it's not bad at all. I bought the Wolff spring set for mine but have been too lazy to change them out. Mine has a really nice SA trigger and the DA, which I can still hit with, is only about 12-14 pounds, not unmanageable, but maybe I got lucky with mine?

[Doc Hoy]

The idea of the round being a bit weak for PD.

Understand, I am not a law enforcement guy, I am not a PD or HD guy. And so I am only guessing....

My thought though is that the round is a bit light if you are serious about PD. The 9x18 is something like a .380 right? And the pistol only carrier six (I think). Plus the ammo is not all that popular.

Who was it who responded when asked why he carried a .45, "Because Sam Colt don't make a .46."

So I am thinking the XDS.45ACP is about right.

Hope this is not the kind of thing that causes a lot of hate and discontent.
If I am off, here just tell me to sit down.

[Capybara]

As far as 9x18 Maks viability for SD, IMHO, if it passes the FBI test into ballistics gel, it's good enough for me. This caliber, with the Hornady FTX, passes the test pretty nicely. I agree, a bigger bullet is generally preferable, but the size of this pistol is pretty nice for CCW. It is funny though, when I practice with my AR500 graduated gong set, occasionally I will miss the gong and hit the heavy chain that holds the gong. When I bring the gong set back in to load up to go home, there are sometimes expanded bullets that become lodged in the chain. When I hit the chain with a rifle round, it shears the chain like butter. When I hit it with 9x18 Mak or 9mm, the bullet just sort of plops there.

That tells me that one of these bullets hitting bone might derail it pretty well. Pistols are actually not very effective and we all know that stopping power is myth. But my IA won't let me carry/put my AR pistol onto my LTC.

[Ignition Override]

Doc Hoy:
Those are quite valid perspectives, based on chats about guns carried by many co-workers. Being still fairly new to handguns, several people recommended that I just buy a very compact gun in 9mm Luger. They generally think "compact self defense, (9 mm minimum)".

However, so many of us like the features/ergos/sizes of so many guns which generally copied the PPK that we find them hard to resist and very dependable: Sig 232, German PPK/S (weaker Wolff recoil spring made it dependable), CZ-82 and E. German Makarov.

It might be better to carry a P-64 in/under summer clothing, unless the owner likes 9mm Luger types which are the same size,
and just as reliable (?).