powder load 44 special

[Swampman1]

I currently load 44 special using 44 magnum cases, therefore upping the charge a bit for the larger case. Loading Hornady XTP 200 gr with 8 gr of HP-38, and it's proven to be a nice load with less kick for my Dad to use. The cast bullets I have in mind are 210 gr RN-FP. Any powder charge suggestions? I was planning on starting at 6 gr.

[AlaskaMike]

Why drop it to 6 grains? If 8 grains under the 200 grain jacketed bullet is working well, I'd start there with the cast bullet and vary the powder charge up or down as needed.

Just to verify though--you're using .44 mag brass in a .44 mag revolver, right? The way you phrased it wasn't very clear.

[Swampman1]

Correct, a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag. Just mainly wanted to see if there was anyone else out there in this scenario, (probably unlikely) and what was working for them. But that being said, although I was using 8 gr. with jacketed bullets, anytime I work with a "new" component I will start lower than normal. Overly cautious...probably.

[Unclenick]

Does the bullet have a single or a double crimp groove? Many have two, one being lower down for use with the shorter Special case, If you use the lower Special crimp groove in the longer Magnum case, you get a longer cartridge and more powder space, but if you use the upper groove you don't get any more powder space.

I show 8 grains giving around 18KPSI in the Magnum at the short length and 15KPSI if seated long. Nothing unusual for cast bullets to deal with.

[salvadore]

I don't have a 44 magnum, but the old Anderton bullet and its modern counterpart along with Keith and Lee's 240 RN work well in my 44 spec. What exactly is a jacketed bullet?

[Strafer Gott]

Gotta love them boolits. I like the Unique for my lead loads. I dial them way back for my '72 Opentops. I drop back to 210 gr lead for .44 Colts, another sweetheart round.

[madmo44mag]

Does the bullet have a single or a double crimp groove? Many have two, one being lower down for use with the shorter Special case, If you use the lower Special crimp groove in the longer Magnum case, you get a longer cartridge and more powder space, but if you use the upper groove you don't get any more powder space.

Ok correct me if I am wrong.
Is not the lower groove intended for the bullet lube?
I have been loading this cartridge for many years and have never heard of anyone crimping in the lower groove on a cast bullet.
Not saying you can't do it, just never heard of anyone doing it.

[PawPaw]

Originally Posted by Salvadore

What exactly is a jacketed bullet?

Ha! I'm with you on that one. I don't think my .44 magnum has ever fired a j-word bullet. Matter of fact, the only bullet I use in it is the Lee TL430-240-SWC, which gets used in both magnum and special cases. For the special, I use Skeeter's Load, which is 7.5 grains of Unique and a standard primer. That gives me 970 fps from my revolver and is plenty good medicine for 95% of what I want a .44 to do.

[PawPaw]

I have been loading this cartridge for many years and have never heard of anyone crimping in the lower groove on a cast bullet.

Back in the day, Ray Thompson designed a bullet with two crimp grooves for the .38/.357. The idea was that the bullet could be crimped in the upper groove for both cases, but if the handloader wanted to get a little more "oomph" out of the special case, he could seat the bullet so that he could crimp in the lower crimp groove with the special case, which gave enough room (and the proper COAL) for a magnum charge under the bullet. Lyman standardized the bullet as their #358156. I've used that design in the .357, and it's entirely possible to get magnum velocities out of the special case with the bullet seated out to the .357 length.

However, I've never seen a reference for a bullet like that designed for the .44 Spec/.44 Magnum. If anyone knows of a bullet design with two crimp grooves for the .44, I'd love to hear about it.

[madmo44mag]

Cool PawPaw.
So the bullet you note is the exception to the rule.

[PawPaw]

Originally Posted by madmo44mag

Cool PawPaw.
So the bullet you note is the exception to the rule.

Well, it's the only one I know of especially designed for that purpose, but when I was examining my Lee tumble-lube molds, I noticed that those little tumble lube grooves look just exactly like crimp grooves. So, the next time I was loading .38, I set the seating die out to .357 length and seated it to the length that mimiced the COAL of the .357 magnum. Sure enough, one of those little lube grooves lined-up, so I crimped in that lube groove. I suppose that I could use the tumble lube grooves in that TL430-240 for the same purposes, but I've never experimented with the .44 in that regard. I've got plenty of .44 magnum cases (and I need to fill some this weekend. I've noticed I'm about out.)

[Unclenick]

Note that the .44 Special and .44 Magnum have only 0.005" difference in SAAMI maximum COL's. I suspect the slightly shorter one for the Magnum is to allow for more bullet back out due to recoil. The result is, to get the same bullet to hit the two SAAMI COL's on the money, it needs two crimp grooves spaced 0.13" apart.

A number of molds have those. The NEI 429-295-GC, 429-325-BB, 429-350-GC, the Lee 430-310 RF, are examples. Three of Beartooth Bullet's heavier selections are from dual crimp groove molds.

The other obvious possibility is to make .44 magnum cylinders an extra 0.13" long so .44 Special crimp grooves can be used with a .44 Magnum case, despite producing an over-SAAMI COL of 1.740". That also makes more room for powder. That's what Ruger has done, among others.

[reloader28]

"What exactly is a jacketed bullet?"

Hes talking about those copper patched things. You know, the condom coated boolit wannabees that store owners somehow get people to spend money on.

I always thought they were for decoration until I saw a guy actually buy a box.

5gr Bullseye works good for my plinking with 260gr Keith. Very accurate in 4 different guns.

[madmo44mag]

I never got into bullet casting which is kinda dumb considering how much I shoot.
I suppose that is why I have so little knowledge of the various bullet mold designs.
I've loaded a lot of over PSI 44mag rounds with compressed loads.
Of course these are all jacketed bullets with a canalure.
All 44 spl / 44 mag lead bullets are loaded at range charges and have never had a need to crimp below the intended canalure.
I can see where loading 44 spl cases to higher charge weights not wanting to compress the load to use one of the lube grooves.
Knowing how Elmer Keith developed the 44 mag from the spl, this makes sense.
Geeeeeezzzzzz some times ya have to get hit with a brick for the light bulb to come one

[PawPaw]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Note that the .44 Special and .44 Magnum have only 0.005" difference in SAAMI maximum COL's.

I never noticed that until you pointed it out, but it appears that the SAAMI COL of the .44 Special (1.615") is longer than the COL of the .44 magnum (1.610). I've been loading both for several years and never looked at the SAAMI drawings side-by-side. That is interesting. I learn something new every time I come to this forum.

[Swampman1]

Interesting, Hornady has the COL for the special at 1.500 and the magnum at 1.610

[Unclenick]

Swampman,

My copy of Hornady's manual (#6) gives 1.615" as the .44 Special maximum COL on the introductory page preceding the load data. The actual COL's they list in the data are 1.470" to 1.490", but those are for their flat nose shapes and hollow points. Those nose shapes don't stick out as far from the full diameter bearing surface of the bullet as a round nose does.

[Swampman1]

Yeah Nick I'm looking at the Hornady 9th edition, and this is the intro page, before the load data pages. So apparently they've made a correction. Pic is kinda small, sorry bout that.

[Unclenick]

Not a correction, but a typo I would guess. Since the industry is SAAMI compliant, by and large, chambers will be made to accommodate for the 1.615" SAAMI length.