Can anyone identify this artillery round?

[PennState]

Cleaning out my dad's basement and found this artillery round. Can anyone identify it? The only thing stamped on the end of the case is "N". The projectile appears to be solid. Looks like it was pushed into the casing with some fabric around it to keep it in place.

[Boomer58cal]

What diameter is it?

It looks like a Korean or Vietnam era 37 or 40 mm anti aircraft shell.
Boomer

[Patriot86]

The length looks about right for a Bofors 40MM shell






I believe its a little short to be a Soviet/Combloc 37MM AA round. Also the taper looks wrong.


The case also does not look right for a 35MM Orlikin round



Unless it is something super exotic I think its a bofors 40MM round.

[DaleA]

I'm guessing your Dad is not around to tell you about the round and whether or not it is 'safe'.

With that as a given the advice is always the same, contact the authorities who can come out and 'handle' it for you.

And welcome to The Firing Line.

[g.willikers]

Yeah, judging from the second picture, taken from the rear, the primer looks very healthy.
Don't drop it.

[Bart Noir]

Those things had explosive shells. And while I didn't see a fuze we didn't get a good look at the pointy end.

So you might have a very dangerous piece of ordnance in your house. Or you might have a display shell that is perfectly safe. But how are you going to sleep at night until you find out?

Best of luck.

Bart Noir

[dajowi]

It looks to me to be smaller than some...but bigger than others

[Mike Irwin]

40 mm Bofors.

The shell looks as if it is a solid, not explosive.

[Patriot86]

I wouldn't want one, solid shell or not going off outside the chamber; or inside the chamber for that matter in my house.

[44 AMP]

Most likely, 37mm or 40mm, either AA or infantry/tank cannon shell.

The British 2 pounder (40mm) cannon used in early WWII tanks fired a solid shot. Several different nations used a 37mm round as the standard tank and anti tank gun at the beginning of WWII (US, Germany, etc). Plus there are the different 37mm AA guns and aircraft cannon...

Each gun used its own shells (although there were "families" of guns using the same shells). These shells all look roughly similar, and the details of case dimensions are needed to correctly identify which one it is.

it is possible that the cloth is used to hold the projectile in the case from friction. It MAY be that the original "bullet" was replaced with an inert one. I have seen that done before, although usually done with a fired case to make a dummy round.

I have also run across live explosive shells that had their powder dumped and the warhead put back in the case to make a display round. Some don't know that doesn't make it safe.

If you just want it gone, call the cops, they'll send the bomb squad and take it away. They may even let you back into your house afterwards.....

Even if it is live, it hasn't gone off yet, so it likely won't. That does NOT mean it CAN"T go off. Carefully move it someplace where it would be safe if the worst happens, and if you can, get good measurements of all the dimensions (something better than the yardstick).

What I think you have is a display round someone made up, BUT it may not be, I can't tell for sure, so if you keep it, err on the side of caution until it is positively identified. If it does turn out to be a live explosive, it will have to be taken and disposed of by the authorities.

These kinds of things turn up often, cannon shells, artillery rounds, grenades and even aircraft bombs. Most of them are harmless. Some are not, even if someone at one time thought they were. Generally there is no problem if they are reported and dealt with by the authorities. But, if you know that it is a live explosive, and you keep it, there are legal problems involved in that.

be safe, and be legal.

[bamaranger]

Pretty sure that is NOT a 40mm bofors. The neck/shoulder and case taper look way off. If I had to guess and its just a guess, I'd say its a 37mm cannon/ or anti-tank round from the wheeled/towed gun or the Stewart tank of WWII

[Mike40-11]

I with bamaranger. Looks closest to 37x223R anti-tank round. For the M-3 anti-tank gun among others. M-3.
Odd though, these type of rounds usually had fairly extensive headstamps identifying them. Don't think the fabric around the projectile is original. Probably stuffed in that way after it was pulled, hopefully to dump the powder.

[JimPage]

Get it checked out by eod specialists

[Mike Irwin]

Looking at it more, and at better examples of bofors rounds, I think my answer was incorrect.

Sigh...

[Wreck-n-Crew]

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/805097...shell-exc-cond

[bamaranger]

There is a rather interesting video on Youtube of a guy reloading 37mm M3 shells and the example in the OP certainly seems to be similar.

The 37mm M3 has always intrigued me, but I guess it was obsolete by WWII, though it saw action. Read somewhere the Marines liked it with canister shot.

[Aguila Blanca]

Too small to be 40mm anything. The projectile scales about 1-1/4 inches. That's approximately 32 mm.

[44 AMP]

From the pic it could also be approx. 1.5" (37mm), but using an yardstick, at an angle is hardly precise, and could be off 1/4" and not be noticed, easily.

There are 30, 35, 37, & 40mm rounds, used in aircraft, AA, ground, and tank mounts by numerous countries since the late 1920s on up that fit the same general size and shape as the round the OP has. Absent identifying markings, accurate measurement is the only way to be reasonably sure which round it is.

[rickyrick]

Without the yardstick, I'd swear it was .303 Brit lol

[Slamfire]

In 2006, in Ventura California, a teacher had a 40 mm projectile as a paper weight in the class room. Apparently had it for years. Then he smacked a bug and it went off, putting a hole in his hand in the ceiling.

In June, someone brought a 20mm to school:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...boy-10-1936793

You know, there are all sorts of news articles on old unexploded ordnance that people kept around until the ammunition converted itself to exploded ordnance.

I have no idea. You need to take more precise measurements of the shell diameter and case length.

What about a nice clear picture of the case head?

[44 AMP]

In 1977, in Germany, I got extensive training on un-exploded ordnance. Some of the guys were out in the boonies on post, and found a "shell" (unexploded fired projectile, in this case) and brought it back to the barracks. Sat night, some drinking, table gets bumped, shell falls (THUMP) onto the floor. Noise alerts the CQ, he investigates, sees the shell, and clears the room, calls EOD.

EOD runs us all out of the barracks in the middle of the night, and takes it away. The next morning, Sunday, usually a day off, we ALL get mustered in formation, and marched to the post theater.

There we got a half day class on unexploded ordnance, and what NOT to do if we found any. It was one of the better instruction sessions the Army ever gave me, both in content and presentation. There was a large display stand of ordnance, and the instructor would pick them up and tell us about them. At several points during the class, when he picked up something, it "exploded" (simulator under the display stand). Let me tell you, if you were dozing off, it REALLY woke you up.

Besides it being a field grade court martial offense to pick this stuff up, the most important thing was that the only thing you could tell about a "dud" was that it didn't go off when it was expected to. NOTHING else.

They told us the story about a private who was picking up the golden eggs on a grenade range (40mm grenade projectiles). All duds, meaning they were safe, right? Supposedly had one in each pants pocket, one in each shirt pocket, and one in each hand, when he bumped his hand against his pocket, and (at least) one of them went off. Letter to the family, GI insurance, and a closed casket.

They told us the story about a LAW range at FT Hood, used for years, shooting LAW rockets at old tanks and halftracks. Lots of duds in the field. They set fire to the field to clean it up. Many explosions. The remainder must be dead, right? Sent guys out to pick them up. Had the burnt, dud rockets piled up like cordwood. One guy tosses another one on the pile, and it (or several) explodes. At least one fatality from that one.

The told us about how warheads with piezoelectric crystals in their fuzes could get really unstable, and had, after lying in the open, for years, gone off from the change in temp of someone's shadow falling across it. They told us a lot of other stuff too.

The warhead the guys in my barracks found, which did not go off when it fell off the table (directly above, one room to the left of mine) was a WWII German 10.5cm WP (white phosphorus) round, and that afternoon, we were taken to the range where the EOD detonated it. Very impressive. Had it gone off in the barracks (which were two story concrete construction) it would have destroyed one wing completely, and set fire to the rest!

NO warhead is safe, until and unless a real expert (and not an armchair expert like me) certifies it is. DON"T TAKE CHANCES!

[Slamfire]

People get killed all the time with UXO even at military ranges. I heard that a EOD was killed at White Sands Missile Range because he had gotten too causal with UXO. The story I heard he picked up one unexploded anti personnel/anti vehicle bomb let, about baby food jar sized, it was on the ground after a dispersion test. The guy picked it up and tossed it back. It went off on contact with the ground and the guy bled to death before emergency vehicles could reach him.

Once, at Holloman AFB, the MP police had roped off several square miles of the base. Seemed they found a big unexploded bomb. It was taking lots of time as they were going to haul the thing off. The friend who told me this asked why they did’nt just blow it in place instead of hauling it off. He was told “it could be a chemical weapon”. Just imagine exploding a nerve agent bomb in place. That would be a big “OOPS! moment”

People should never take ordnance or gunpowder for granted.

HAZARDS OF ALTITUDE TESTING AT AEDC

In 1982, a Peacekeeper stage 2 failed during a test at AEDC. This was a new booster being tested as a Production Assurance Quality Test. Ignition failure occurred during the burn test and most of the 60,000 lbs of unburnt propellant fell out of the booster into the bottom of the test cell. This test cell was hundreds of feet deep. Aerojet’s recommendation was to cut the propellant in the bottom of the stand into chunks with a wire and physically lift out the chunks. Safety’s recommendation was to keep the propellant wet but this was not implemented by the workers on site. It is not known if keeping the propellant wet would have prevented the ignition of the last 30,000 lbs in the cell, regardless three Aerojet and 1 AEDC contract employee were killed when the propellant ignited.


This one, just the static electricity was enough to set off a perfectly good Pershing rocket.

3 Gis Killed In Missile Accident: fuel Fire leaves 7 Injured

January 12, 1985|By James M. Markham, The New York Times

BONN — The solid-fuel motor of an unarmed Pershing 2 missile caught fire and burned during a training exercise in southern Germany Friday, killing three American soldiers and injuring seven others, the U.S. Army announced.
The accident was the most serious so far involving the American-built ballistic missiles, and it seemed certain to sharpen West German anxieties over the issue of nuclear weapons stationed in the country. The Pershings were first deployed in late 1983 after heated controversy in West Germany.

Technical Investigation of 11 January 1985 PERSHING II Motor Fire
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADP005343

Demilling old ordnance kills people:


2010 Deadly Redstone Arsenal explosion caused by company's safety lapse, investigation shows

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/02/...al_explos.html

People complain about TSA, airport security and stupid. Well it is not limited to TSA. I have one more story about the levels of stupid you can get with hired help.

A bud of mine was in uniform when we had nuclear tipped Pershing Missiles based in Germany.



He was at a storage base in Germany and a worker there moved a Pershing nuclear warhead with a fork lift. According to my bud there were rules about moving nuclear war heads. One was that the fork lift operator had to have special training and that there was supposed to be a guide in front of the fork lift. Instead the forklift operator was not trained, there was no guide to slow the fork lift. The operator got the fork lift moving too fast, the nuke in the box started bouncing on the forklift rungs, the operator got scared and braked hard. Evidentially the operator had not been educated about inertia because the crate kept going,slide off the rungs, and fell on the asphalt.

Everyone there took a deep breath after they discovered they were still alive. Just imagine the size of the crater had it gone off!

[PennState]

So it looks like the best thing to do is call the cops, let them call the state police EOD, and go to a movie while they're there.

[southjk]

Sounds like a good plan.

[Major Dave (retired)]

tank round. anti-aircraft round, tank destroyer round.

Definitely NOT field artillery.