why so serious? Bubba?

[tahunua001]

let's see if I can go about this in a way that fosters civility. not long ago I saw a guy on the high road that started a thread begging everyone not to "ruin" their milsurp rifles by "bubba-ing" them up. while I don't fully agree with him I was surprise with how quickly the thread turned into a flame fest over "nonya-bizniss" and "my gun, my rights" arguments so I was just wondering what everyone's position was over here on this side of the internet.

while I can see his point that milsurps retain a lot more collectors value if they are all original configuration, guns with non matching parts will never be a sought after collectors piece so there is little point in keeping it standard. case in point. I have an Enfield NO4 MK1 that's all matching numbers and factory configuration, it's worth $350-ish. the same weekend I bought mine my little brother built himself a no4 MK1 in a friends basement that is in much better condition, however none of the numbers match and he was forced to go with a synthetic sporter stock because it was the only stock that fit, his rifle is only worth $150 tops. both bring different experiences to the table and now both of us have experienced the beauty and the bubba end of the spectrum. the fact is that 10 years down the line my rifle could be worth $500 dollars but regardless of sporter or not, my little brother gun would have equal or similar value as it does today because of mix and match parts. that's why I see little harm in upgrading an non collectible milsurp but that's my position, what's yours?

[Neatfreak]

I understand the "it's mine, I'll do what I want" mentality (seems to be a common thread with gun owners) and I can see the keeping it original side too. I personally subscribe to the "If I can't use it, it ain't worth much" camp. I don't buy guns or knives or dogs that are just purdy, they gotta be useful. Otherwise, IMHO, they don't have as much value. I own some of the above and use, carry and or care for all of 'em nearly daily. Enfields, Mausers, Springfields, etc., are as original as I got them, but sometimes numbers didn't match and I "personalized" them to suit me.

[emcon5]

"no collector value" is a sliding scale.

In the 50s, Mausers and 1903s, were dirt cheap and widely available. They had "no collector value".

Now, a matching K98 can fetch $1000, and even ratty Soviet capture reworks are going for $4-500.

1903s and 03A3s start around $500, and go up from there.

Right now Mosin 91/30s are going for about $80, and there are a bunch of them out there. Then again, it was only about 2 years ago M38 and M44 Mosins were selling for a little over $100. Now, if you can find one, they are north of $150 for M44s, and I have seen M38s listed for $200.

It is your rifle, and you can do what you want, but generally speaking you are destroying a historical artifact by doing so.

[cornbush]

I would definitely not "tacticool" a milsurp.
I would also not sporterize an intact matching specimen either........but one that doesn't match or has already been tinkered with........in a heartbeat, they are great old rifles that can still be very functional.
I'll take a nice Springfield or Mauser sporter over a new rifle any day.

[Scharfschuetzer]

I enjoy old military rifles (pre semi-auto) and if original, feel that they should be kept that way.

On the other hand, I have bought some 98s and 1903s that previous owners had "sporterized" by drilling and tapping the actions or by refinishing as project guns for various shooting activities. Once "damaged" in such a manner they can still make for a great cast bullet rifle in 35 Remington, off hand match rifle or just a plain hunting rifle.

If not drilled and tapped, refinished or otherwise modified, they can be restored. I have been able to restore a couple of 1903 Springfields back to original stature by replacing the "sporterized" parts with original barrels, stocks, sights and other metal parts. While perhaps not arsenal reconditioned, they are hard to tell from one. It is getting harder and harder to find these old parts though. When I run across them at gun shows and the price isn't too high, I buy the parts for future use.

[ScottRiqui]

I'm generally in the "it's your stuff - do what you want" crowd, but I also feel that in the case of firearms that are truly *rare* (i.e. only a handful were made or still exist), or when you're talking about a particular example that has historical significance, then I feel that we have an obligation to our fellow man to either leave the gun unmolested or to sell/give it to someone that will preserve it for future generations.

I feel the same way about art, too. Just because you're the legal owner of a Picasso or a Van Gogh, I don't think that morally justifies destroying it or defacing it.

[kraigwy]

Didn't see a "NO" in the poll. I like military surplus rifles but I want them "as issued" not bubbafied.

I don't care about collecter value, not like I'm going ot sell them. I'm going to shoot them in CSM GSM matches.

[SharkHat]

Sporterizing a milsurp rifle is like putting hydraulics on a classic Impala.

Would I ever do it? Nope.
Does it bother me if someone else does? Nope.

[L_Killkenny]

Both A and C are right. Sporterize in a heartbeat, Tacticool not in a million years.

LK

[Scorch]

We used to buy crates of Mauser 98s just for the actions. When they were so cheap and plentiful, it was easy, and no one seemed to care. Nowadays, after the WW2 movie craze from the 1990s on (after Desert Storm and Saving Private Ryan), and everyone suddenly becoming so militaristic, it's hard to do it economically. It's cheaper to just buy a Winchester or Remington to start with.

[tahunua001]

1903s and 03A3s start around $500, and go up from there.

if you ever see an original 1903 for $500 PM me IMMEDIATELY!!!
I've had issues finding them for less than a grand lately.

Didn't see a "NO" in the poll.

I guess I figured the "not in a million years" option might cover that field.

It's cheaper to just buy a Winchester or Remington to start with.

I dont know, I'm thinking about piecing myself together a 91/30 for $50 and getting a Boyds Thumbhole stock for $100(nothing fancy)... Remington better drop their prices if they want to compete

[rickyrick]

One that's already been damaged or tinkered with, ok.

Before I got my mosin I looked at the synthetic stocks and all the doodads. When I finally got one, I couldn't bring myself to change anything. It had been a long time since I seen a milsurp in such good condition.

[Bigfatts]

I have had many sporterized rifles and I've rescued a few bubba'd guns as well. I've had sporter built on 1903s, M98s, 1917s, SMLEs, etc. They've been some of the best rifles I've owned. Right now I'm into the No4s. I just finished a sporter a few months ago and am slowly piecing together parts for another build. It's fun, cheap, easy. I built a custom sporter that I love for right around $300. Try that with a Remington. I bought both of my bubba'd No4's for around $100. I'll breath new life into them and make them something other than junk on a pawn shop shelf. So while I'll build a sporter out of mostly anything (my dream is an 1898 Krag in 6.5x55) I wouldn't use an intact, correct gun. But if someone elae has already started it, why not finish it?

My last sporter:




A couple others I've had:

M95


1917 .375H&H


Navy Arms Summit Rifle .45-70

[bejay]

I realize there is collectors that may buy rifles and not use them much if at all and keep them in original condition. you cant always put value of a rifle in just what its worth in money, sporterizing a rifle may make it more valuable to the owner who is likely going to use it and enjoy it more and hes already spent more on the rifle sporterizing it so it wasnt really bought for the purpose of what it may be worth 10-20 years down the road.

[tahunua001]

Bigfatts,
I absolutely love your efields, the M95 is interesting to say the least and even though I've never been much for the 1917s, that is a very nice rifle.

[springer99]

I can still fondly remember the days when you could pick up British SMLE's, including Jungle Carbines, 1903A3's, 1917's and 98K Mausers for the lordly prices of $15-$40. Johnson Automatic Rifles and M1's were, of course, a little higher but not much.

At the time, we all said, "They'll never have any collector value, so chop away". The gun rags of those days couldn't miss an issue that didn't include "How-to" make a great woods-rifle out of all of them.

Makes you want to cry today though. Just bear that in mind before you pick up the saw.

[rickyrick]

Am I correct, I read that the last enfield is in 45/70?

That's pretty cool.

[Mrgunsngear]

Who would bubba-ize a rifle?? Me, that's who!

I still have all the original equipment that came with my SKS, but I didn't like the LOP on the factory stock and l wanted to change it... So, my gun my tastes I guess. That said, I can just switch it back if I ever want to.

[Scorch]

Remington better drop their prices if they want to compete

Rem 700 in the plastic stock, $430 at WalMart, including a scope and rings, ready to go. It's getting harder to beat their prices every day . . .

[trap4570]

I can understand keeping a mil-surp unaltered for historical purpose if it is a fine representation. I can also rebut to the purist that an altered gun just makes the rest that much more valuable. I've rebuilt basket case guns before to make them usable and somewhat pleasing to the eye. It's up to the owner. I envision a bubba'd gun as one that has a beer opener on the side of the stock or a .22 with a recoil pad. I guess everyone has their own opinion.

[Chris_B]

Depends on what you mean.

Would I take a rifle that has collectible value now, or is scarce and do this? No.

But let's say for the sake of argument that ten million M-16s were being offered for sale to the general public. Work with me here, this is for the sake of argument. They are selling for 500 bucks each. Would I buy one and then feel obligated to keep it in its 'USGI' original configuration?

Of course not

But would I take a Krag and sporterize it? My 1944 M1? My Dad's 1903A3? Um, no, no I wouldn't even dream of it

A few months back, Victory revolvers that had been in storage in cosmoline since WWII were available, at attractive prices. Original boxes, etc. Would I buy one and have it blued and have target sights put on it? No.

[Art Eatman]

I'd likely not do a custom job on a collectible military rifle, but I do tend to raise an eyebrow when somebody regards an SKS or a semi-auto AK 47 as somehow deserving preservation in original condition.

A Model 98 Mauser in high-grade condition is not IMO a good choice for customizing. Keep it as-is. But one which is pretty beat-up? Different story, for me. I guess that's pretty much how I feel about a lot of those old mil-surps. High grades are in a different category than beat-ups.

[BigMikey76]

For me, a rifle is a tool, and it has a job to do. If it can't do the job as is, it needs to be adjusted. That being said, I would not make changes to a truly valuable piece... then again, I probably wouldn't buy it to begin with. Right now, I can only afford to have functional utilitarian rifles. There is no room in my safe for queens...

[tobnpr]

Honestly, I think common sense rules here...for those that have any.

I have sporterized two 91/30's, both are moa rifles (took a lot of modifications), but they had little dollar value- and therefore, little collector value to begin with.

For cripes sake, there were over 30 million of them made. You don't see anyone griping about AK-47's in ATI stocks, do ya?

IF it's a collectible rifle worth real $$, why in the world would anyone bastardize it and lower it's value???

If I want to make a real shooter project from a milsurp, I'll find one that has little collector value (bad stock, non-matching numbers, worn blueing) and work that one.

I think the "high horse" guys are overreacting. The valuable weapons will always remain as they should, because the guy that paid good $$ for it isn't that stupid...

[TimT]

I wouldn't do anything that couldn't be undone.

But I really don't care what you do to yours. (But if you do something that can't be undone to a really collectible milsurp like a 3 digit M1, then you are going to hell, plain and simple )