PPS owners beware! I had a total back strap failure today!

C Philip · September 3, 2011, 03:20 PM

For those who do not know, the Walther PPS has an interchangeable back strap that also acts as a "safety device," when removed the gun is disabled. It has been an object of controversy, and today I found out why.

My PPS only has about 3000 rounds of factory standard pressure ammo through it. No +p stuff.

Today when at the range, midway through a magazine, the trigger did not reset. I thought I had a bad primer, but soon saw that the back strap had come loose. When I took it off, the wear was obvious. It had become completely rounded.

The metal part that holds the clip was also a bit shiny and rounded, but not sure if this is wear or normal.

Main points:

1. The special magazines that are supposed to hold the back strap on do not work! I tried several, none held it tight enough to allow the gun to function. See the photo below.

2. This was a low round count gun, and I did not take the back strap on and off frequently. Once I found the one I liked, I left it on for probably 2500 rounds until today. Something is causing it to wear even if it isn't being removed!

3. Check your back straps! They may be worn and cause a potentially fatal failure in an emergency!

Possible solutions:
1. Treat the back strap as a wear part and replace every 1000 rounds.
2. Get a handall grip or similar to put over it. But I'm not sure if this will hold it tight enough under recoil.
3. Find the size you like and epoxy it in place.

I'll probably go with #3. I don't like the handall type grips at all, don't want the hassle of replacing parts every 1000 rounds, and don't foresee needing to change my grip size in the future.

Here is a photo showing the gap even with the magazine in place. The gun will not function:

Here is a video:

Bad stuff. I'm lucky this happened to me at the range. Making the back strap disable the gun was a big design mistake. I still like this gun, and will epoxy a new one in place, but I shouldn't have to. Removable back straps are nice... making them disable the gun is not.

Uncle Malice · September 3, 2011, 03:38 PM

This is definitely not normal. I just checked mine and it shows no wear here. I'm curious to understand how that wear would even occur.

Just call Smith and Wesson. Send them these pics. I'm sure they will want to see the gun, and possibly replace it.

I wouldn't bother with epoxy. If you really think it might be an issue in the future, ask for several replacements. S&W will make it right, on their dime, quickly.

Don Glock · September 3, 2011, 04:08 PM

i've been posting warnings about this on threads since the PPS came out, but was dismissed by PPS owners.

hate to say, "i told you".......actually i like saying that

designing a "snap-on" backstrap as a safety that locks up the gun is idiotic.

Kreyzhorse · September 3, 2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

3. Find the size you like and epoxy it in place.

Better yet, call S&W first and see what they suggest. Send them the pictures as well. I'll be they have a better option that epoxy.

Uncle Malice · September 3, 2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

i've been posting warnings about this on threads since the PPS came out, but was dismissed by PPS owners.

It's not a common or notable problem. This doesn't normally happen.

"I've been talkin' bout those Glock kaBooms since they came out! Hate to say I told ya so!"

C Phillip, give them a call and your troubles will be remedied.

Don Glock · September 3, 2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

It's not a common or notable problem. This doesn't normally happen.

you're right, let's just dismiss the whole thing. no need to inform potential purchasers of this potential issue.

.....and people blowing up their glocks with bad reloads is also a fitting analogy to this topic.

(

)

C Philip · September 3, 2011, 04:32 PM

I will definitely call S&W, but it will have to wait till Tuesday due to the holiday. I really hope they can fix it without replacing the gun. The action is nicely broken in. I would hate to have to spend another 500 rounds on the break in period for a new gun.

Uncle Malice · September 3, 2011, 04:49 PM

One potential issue is that maybe the back strap wasn't completely/correctly installed and was only catching on the very edge of the locking edge. The back strap should be installed with the slide locked in the open position.

You will notice that to try installing the back strap with the slide closed is much more difficult than installing it with the slide open. If you don't want the gun to be replaced, I would just ask for a couple of replacement grip panels. I'm sure they'll be happy to send some out to you.

AZGlock13 · September 3, 2011, 05:34 PM

Yep, definitely give S&W a call on Tuesday and hopefully they will simply ship you some replacement back straps of that size you need. The idea of using epoxy on the back strap to keep it secured to the gun is one I would not entertain personally, even as a last resort (but that's IMHO). If you want to look into a possible rubber slip-on grip to try on your PPS, I highly recommend the Limbsaver slip-on rubber grip. It feels really great on my PPS and stays in place (I added a rounded strip of double sided tape under the grip on both sides after I got the grip in place on the gun). I also like Pachmayr's line of rubber slip-on grips as well (have them on my Glocks). Here is the link to the Limbsaver grip I bought (part# 12013) for my Walther PPS 9mm:
https://www.limbsaver.com/store/prod...cat=273&page=1
Here is a pic of my PPS with the Limbsaver installed, so you can see how it looks on it:

Shadi Khalil · September 4, 2011, 12:50 AM

Isn't the big selling point of the PPS supposed to be how thin it is? it seems like putting a hand all on it defeats the purpose.

voyager4520 · September 4, 2011, 12:55 AM

That's quite disturbing. I like the design but not the backstrap part of it. If I bought one I'd probably try some way to modify the mechanism internally, much like removing the magazine safety on many handguns.

You could do with grip sleeves what many Glock owners do, cut some strips of bicycle inner tube.

Carry_24/7 · September 4, 2011, 05:08 AM

My PPS-9 has "alot of rounds through it (possibly over 2500, I did not do an exact count) with the same (small) backstrap, shows no wear, and is as tight as the day it was purchased; so hoooold your "I told you so" assists....

Some folks are talking like no other weapon made by a credible manufacturer "ever" fails and must be repaired....right?

Don't epoxy it, send it for repair, as something may have been wrong with the gun all along.

Thanks for the report, I can now really watch for this issue.

kinoons · September 7, 2011, 12:54 AM

Best I can say is that my .40 cal PPS has 2000+ rounds through it with no issues. I have not removed my backstrap in over two years. Double checked it today and no wear. I do have a limbsaver installed to help with the recoil of the .40 cal.

With that being said, all guns are mechanical devices and therefor can fail. As a responsible owner you should be aware of this and check your equipment regularly.

loose_holster_dan · September 8, 2011, 12:56 PM

wow that is one seriously ugly gun!

James K · September 8, 2011, 02:05 PM

I don't have a PPS, but I think I see what happened. The metal block that the backstrap locks into seems to be of some soft metal that has been subjected to strain and broke out (not wore) at the top edge. That could have happened two ways. One would be if the backstrap were pried off using a lot of force (no signs of that) or was put in without being lined up, then forced in, with the curve of the latch out of position. That could break the metal block, possibly even if it were good steel.

Did the OP cause the problem? Maybe not. It could have happened at the factory or in a gun shop. I do think the OP needs to study the situation a bit before shipping the gun back to S&W. He could help identify the problem and also make sure the fix is correct when the gun is returned to him.

Jim

September 3, 2011, 03:20 PM	#1
C Philip Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 784	PPS owners beware! I had a total back strap failure today! For those who do not know, the Walther PPS has an interchangeable back strap that also acts as a "safety device," when removed the gun is disabled. It has been an object of controversy, and today I found out why. My PPS only has about 3000 rounds of factory standard pressure ammo through it. No +p stuff. Today when at the range, midway through a magazine, the trigger did not reset. I thought I had a bad primer, but soon saw that the back strap had come loose. When I took it off, the wear was obvious. It had become completely rounded. The metal part that holds the clip was also a bit shiny and rounded, but not sure if this is wear or normal. Main points: 1. The special magazines that are supposed to hold the back strap on do not work! I tried several, none held it tight enough to allow the gun to function. See the photo below. 2. This was a low round count gun, and I did not take the back strap on and off frequently. Once I found the one I liked, I left it on for probably 2500 rounds until today. Something is causing it to wear even if it isn't being removed! 3. Check your back straps! They may be worn and cause a potentially fatal failure in an emergency! Possible solutions: 1. Treat the back strap as a wear part and replace every 1000 rounds. 2. Get a handall grip or similar to put over it. But I'm not sure if this will hold it tight enough under recoil. 3. Find the size you like and epoxy it in place. I'll probably go with #3. I don't like the handall type grips at all, don't want the hassle of replacing parts every 1000 rounds, and don't foresee needing to change my grip size in the future. Here is a photo showing the gap even with the magazine in place. The gun will not function: Here is a video: Bad stuff. I'm lucky this happened to me at the range. Making the back strap disable the gun was a big design mistake. I still like this gun, and will epoxy a new one in place, but I shouldn't have to. Removable back straps are nice... making them disable the gun is not.

September 3, 2011, 03:38 PM	#2
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	This is definitely not normal. I just checked mine and it shows no wear here. I'm curious to understand how that wear would even occur. Just call Smith and Wesson. Send them these pics. I'm sure they will want to see the gun, and possibly replace it. I wouldn't bother with epoxy. If you really think it might be an issue in the future, ask for several replacements. S&W will make it right, on their dime, quickly. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

September 3, 2011, 04:49 PM	#8
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	One potential issue is that maybe the back strap wasn't completely/correctly installed and was only catching on the very edge of the locking edge. The back strap should be installed with the slide locked in the open position. You will notice that to try installing the back strap with the slide closed is much more difficult than installing it with the slide open. If you don't want the gun to be replaced, I would just ask for a couple of replacement grip panels. I'm sure they'll be happy to send some out to you. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

September 3, 2011, 05:34 PM	#9
AZGlock13 Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2007 Location: AZ Posts: 270	Yep, definitely give S&W a call on Tuesday and hopefully they will simply ship you some replacement back straps of that size you need. The idea of using epoxy on the back strap to keep it secured to the gun is one I would not entertain personally, even as a last resort (but that's IMHO). If you want to look into a possible rubber slip-on grip to try on your PPS, I highly recommend the Limbsaver slip-on rubber grip. It feels really great on my PPS and stays in place (I added a rounded strip of double sided tape under the grip on both sides after I got the grip in place on the gun). I also like Pachmayr's line of rubber slip-on grips as well (have them on my Glocks). Here is the link to the Limbsaver grip I bought (part# 12013) for my Walther PPS 9mm: https://www.limbsaver.com/store/prod...cat=273&page=1 Here is a pic of my PPS with the Limbsaver installed, so you can see how it looks on it: Last edited by AZGlock13; September 3, 2011 at 05:42 PM.

September 3, 2011, 04:08 PM	#3
Don Glock Junior member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Posts: 1,141	i've been posting warnings about this on threads since the PPS came out, but was dismissed by PPS owners. hate to say, "i told you".......actually i like saying that designing a "snap-on" backstrap as a safety that locks up the gun is idiotic.

September 3, 2011, 04:32 PM	#7
C Philip Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 784	I will definitely call S&W, but it will have to wait till Tuesday due to the holiday. I really hope they can fix it without replacing the gun. The action is nicely broken in. I would hate to have to spend another 500 rounds on the break in period for a new gun.

September 4, 2011, 12:50 AM	#10
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Isn't the big selling point of the PPS supposed to be how thin it is? it seems like putting a hand all on it defeats the purpose.

September 4, 2011, 12:55 AM	#11
voyager4520 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2009 Location: SE Colorado Posts: 840	That's quite disturbing. I like the design but not the backstrap part of it. If I bought one I'd probably try some way to modify the mechanism internally, much like removing the magazine safety on many handguns. You could do with grip sleeves what many Glock owners do, cut some strips of bicycle inner tube.

September 4, 2011, 05:08 AM	#12
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	My PPS-9 has "alot of rounds through it (possibly over 2500, I did not do an exact count) with the same (small) backstrap, shows no wear, and is as tight as the day it was purchased; so hoooold your "I told you so" assists.... Some folks are talking like no other weapon made by a credible manufacturer "ever" fails and must be repaired....right? Don't epoxy it, send it for repair, as something may have been wrong with the gun all along. Thanks for the report, I can now really watch for this issue.

September 7, 2011, 12:54 AM	#13
kinoons Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2008 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 409	Best I can say is that my .40 cal PPS has 2000+ rounds through it with no issues. I have not removed my backstrap in over two years. Double checked it today and no wear. I do have a limbsaver installed to help with the recoil of the .40 cal. With that being said, all guns are mechanical devices and therefor can fail. As a responsible owner you should be aware of this and check your equipment regularly.

September 8, 2011, 12:56 PM	#14
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	wow that is one seriously ugly gun!

September 8, 2011, 02:05 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't have a PPS, but I think I see what happened. The metal block that the backstrap locks into seems to be of some soft metal that has been subjected to strain and broke out (not wore) at the top edge. That could have happened two ways. One would be if the backstrap were pried off using a lot of force (no signs of that) or was put in without being lined up, then forced in, with the curve of the latch out of position. That could break the metal block, possibly even if it were good steel. Did the OP cause the problem? Maybe not. It could have happened at the factory or in a gun shop. I do think the OP needs to study the situation a bit before shipping the gun back to S&W. He could help identify the problem and also make sure the fix is correct when the gun is returned to him. Jim