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Old August 25, 2011, 06:27 AM   #1
Funtimes
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Lawsuit Filed against Honolulu Police Chief and State of Hawaii

Aloha all,

Just wanted to stop and drop by our little press release.

NEWS RELEASE

Hawaii Defense Foundation
P.O. Box #1798  Aiea, Hawaii 96817
(808) 664-1827  Fax: 808-748-3376

For Immediate Release: 8/23/2011

Honolulu, HI – The Hawaii Defense Foundation’s founding director and president, Christopher Baker, has filed a lawsuit against Honolulu Chief of Police Louis Kealoha, the Honolulu Police Department, the City and County of Honolulu, the State of Hawaii, and Governor Neil Abercrombie in connection with civil rights violations of the Second and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution.

The complaint filed in the United States District Court for the District of Hawaii by attorneys Richard Holcomb, Alan Beck, and Kevin O’Grady alleges that Hawaii’s license to carry statute and various other firearm regulations are unconstitutional. State law mandates that citizens may be provided licenses to carry only in “exceptional circumstance” or “where a need or urgency has been sufficiently indicated,” all at the discretion of the county’s Chief of Police. The complaint asserts that this language violates the Second Amendment, which secures the right of all responsible, law-abiding citizens to bear arms for the purpose of self-defense. Additionally, the complaint also addresses the use of non-lethal tools for self-defense such as electric guns, which are banned in in Hawaii.

“The Second Amendment protects the right to self-defense. Everyday around the islands good people are robbed, assaulted, raped, or in the worst cases murdered. It’s simply a matter of physics, the Police can’t be everywhere to stop criminals from committing violent acts. We must be allowed to carry the tools that give us a chance to protect ourselves from harm,” says Chris Baker. “We want criminals to have to think about the consequences of attacking someone,” he continued, “but right now, nothing serves as a deterrent to them - the odds are in their favor.”
Hawaii Defense Foundation (www.TheHDF.org) is a domestic not-for-profit corporation based in Honolulu, Hawaii. The Foundation serves the community by providing various services, such as: legal defense of civil rights, educational courses on firearm safety, self-defense training, and life saving techniques – such as first aid and CPR. The Foundation has many supporters and members across the State of Hawaii.

If you would like to show your support or are looking for additional information please contact the Foundation’s Secretary, Erica Castillo, at (808) 664-1827 or info(at)hawaiidefensefoundation.org.

###
Copy of the complaint can be found:
http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.o...513SOM-RLP.pdf

Copy of the press release:
http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.o...ss-Release.pdf


****************************************************************

Some answers to quick comments that surfaced on other forums--

Yes, I missed para.27/28 we are filing an amended complaint to fix a few clerical and printing errors that surfaced.

Close attention must be paid to how interconnected the regulations are, which is why a challenge to multiple statutes had to be made (in our opinion).
It's not a shotgun strategy, or toss it up and see what sticks. The laws just link back and forth for exemptions and stuff so it gets kind of difficult. I know Al had to read it 3 times to really grasp it.
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Old August 25, 2011, 08:45 AM   #2
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Does Hawaii have open carry? Is the permit process required to open carry, concealed carry, or both?
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Old August 25, 2011, 09:34 AM   #3
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Although not an American citizen, I fully support your rights and wish you the best of luck.
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Old August 25, 2011, 09:47 AM   #4
Funtimes
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To open carry you must be a licensed guard or detective, and then only "when the need urgency exists." CCW is non-issue ala Chief of Police.

Basically they let Loomis, Wells Fargo etc. carry guns, but no one else.
Even those who are small time ATM vendors get denied, even thought they carry like 50k+ dollars.
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Old August 25, 2011, 11:29 AM   #5
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Thanks for starting this thread, Funtimes.

As I expressed in the main 2A Cases thread, my first read of the complaint was somewhat critical. It was hard to follow, as HI laws are so circular, as it regards firearms and CC permitting. It did take me reading the complaint 3 times, before it finally began to make sense.

These laws do not inform the average citizen of what activities are expressly forbidden. They are, on their face, invalid because of that aspect alone.

PACER finally was updated last night. As was Justia. All the links to this case are now being updated.
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Old August 28, 2011, 06:30 AM   #6
blume357
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It's kind of funny that there is rhetoric in many things... like after Wisconsin got concealed carry.... we hear that Illinois is the only state left that doesn't allow it.... when in fact there are a number of states that don't.... like Hawaii. Just because in theory they do allow it even though no one is ever given a permit.
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Old August 28, 2011, 12:04 PM   #7
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
Just because in theory they do allow it even though no one is ever given a permit.
Right. But the fact that there is at least a mechanism in the law to issue licenses is one hurdle that won't need to be addressed, once the state is properly back-handed by an appropriate court ruling.
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Old August 29, 2011, 08:48 AM   #8
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Allowing a local sheriff to decide who can and cannot be issued a permit has always been a key part of making it 'racist' and prejudiced....

Oddly enough I first had this pointed out to me while reading about how most gun laws are based on racisim by studies done in California of all places.
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Old August 29, 2011, 01:27 PM   #9
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Aloha from NC,

I have spent many years in Hawaii, am an active member of the 2AHawaii forum and they need our help as much we can give them. When they win this, it should start a landslide effect for all non-adherence 2A states and Local Governments.

Even just becoming a member of the 2A forum can help.

Mike

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?action=register
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Old September 9, 2011, 09:57 PM   #10
Al Norris
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I was sorta hoping Funtimes would have been back to tell us the news!

On 08-29, in docket entry #15, in Baker v. Kealoha, plaintiff baker filed a notice of dismissal pursuant to Rule 41 of the FRCP (this means that Funtimes has dismissed his own lawsuit, without prejudice).

The very next day, Baker is refiled. Case #11-00528 has a new docket, here. The new complaint is here.

After reading the complaint, I can see why. They have incorporated much of the reasoning of the Ezell decision and the Shepard case (filed contemporaneously with the complaint is a Motion for a Preliminary Injunction) in his newly file complaint. They are going for a straight forward RKBA carry case, to include non-lethal self defense weapons along with handguns.

This new litigation strategy will be interesting, to say the least.

What I really want to read is how there is no 2A outside the home... Oh... wait a minute... We don't allow it in the home either!
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Old September 9, 2011, 10:32 PM   #11
Jim March
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Well the really cool part is that without any sort of open carry OR concealed carry, the existing 9th Circuit case law from the California cases (Yolo County and San Diego) actually helps. Both cases say "because unloaded open carry is legal in Cali, the heavy restriction on concealed carry is OK". Those cases can actually be jammed down Hawaii's throat.
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Old September 10, 2011, 10:46 AM   #12
Al Norris
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Jim, there's certainly that. Also, they won't be able the chant the "in the home" mantra that we are so used to hearing.

Those parts of HI handgun law are toast. They will absolutely have to allow handguns in the home. They will have to allow for (handgun and ammunition) transport to and from gun ranges.

The permitting process will have to be changed, to allow for challenges to denials.

Actually, barring the "outside the doorstep" meme, a whole slew of changes will have to be made.

They can fall back of issues of Standing, but that will only take them so far. The real issue is carry for self defense and the plaintiff has made no bones about that. It's either a protected right or it isn't.
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Old September 10, 2011, 12:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
the Police can’t be everywhere to stop criminals from committing violent acts
Where's Dano when you need him?
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Old September 10, 2011, 12:28 PM   #14
maestro pistolero
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Al, wasn't aware that keeping in the home was problematic in HI. When I was there a year and a half ago, I registered two firearms giving my hotel as a HI address.

I realize there is a lot that needs fixing, but I didn't think keeping in the home was one of them.

They were very accommodating, actually. Those will be the two guns that I take on any future trips. Here's to hoping I can actually carry them when the time comes.
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Old September 15, 2011, 11:17 PM   #15
Derek Scammon
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Keeping firearms in the home is legal in Hawaii; but they must be properly registered.

The news as far as I know out here in HI is that the state's response is due on the 21st of this month (September), and the initial hearing for the preliminary injuction is on January 17, 2012. We're keeping our fingers crossed, and those of us who are military and therefore residents of other states are keeping a close eye on HB 822, the nationwide reciprocity bill.

Personally, I'm expecting a good laugh upon reading the thin gruel that the state will hang their case on, which I'm sure will transition into puzzled rage when the district court finds merit in their BS. We'll see!
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Old September 16, 2011, 07:56 AM   #16
Al Norris
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You know... I wondered why a date of Jan was set for the hearing on the PI. Seems to me that some info is missing, when setting such a long date for a hearing that involves irreparable harm.

As for the States response, the only thing they can really push is that there is no right to carry, outside your front door step... Just keep putting all your eggs into one basket, boys and girls!
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Old September 16, 2011, 10:21 AM   #17
KyJim
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Quote:
You know... I wondered why a date of Jan was set for the hearing on the PI. Seems to me that some info is missing, when setting such a long date for a hearing that involves irreparable harm.
I agree. I would think the plaintiff should be pushing for an earlier hearing unless there is something we don't know. Or, maybe the plaintiff pushed and the judge said no.
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Old February 14, 2012, 04:47 AM   #18
Funtimes
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We are the target of the anti-gun lobby.

Brady Center Urges Court To Throw Out Challenge To Hawaii Gun Law

Feb 13, 2012

Washington, DC -- The Brady Center filed a brief today in the U.S. District Court for the District of Hawaii urging the court to dismiss a challenge to Hawaii’s strong gun laws restricting the carrying of loaded guns in public.

“Hawaii’s strong gun laws protect families from the severe danger of loaded guns in public,” said Jonathan Lowy, Director of the Brady Center’s Legal Action Project. “We urge the court to follow more than a dozen other courts around the nation in recognizing that there is no right to carry loaded guns in our streets, parks, and playgrounds.”

The lawsuit, Baker v. Kealoha, challenges Hawaii gun laws limiting public carrying of loaded guns to “exceptional case[ s ] ” because of the severe risks posed by guns in public. The Brady Center’s brief urges the court to dismiss the lawsuit, citing legal rulings from around the nation that the Second Amendment is limited to a narrow right to possess guns in the home for self-defense and does not grant a right to carry loaded guns in public.

The Brady Center’s brief cites studies showing that guns in public expose all members of society to great risks, as guns are used far more often to kill and wound innocent victims than to kill and wound criminals, and guns are also used far more often to intimidate and threaten than they are used to thwart crimes.

The Brady Center’s brief also cites data showing that Hawaii’s strong gun laws have helped Hawaii achieve the lowest gun death rate in the nation, less than a third the national average.

The Brady Center is being represented by attorneys with the Brady Center’s Legal Action Project; Mark M. Murakami of Damon Key Leong Kupchak Hastert in Honolulu and; Jonathan Diesenhaus from Hogan Lovells in Washington, D.C.
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Old February 14, 2012, 07:39 AM   #19
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So if the last court date was supposedly in January 2012 has a ruling been made yet?

Last edited by Tom Servo; February 14, 2012 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Removed response to deleted post
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Old February 14, 2012, 08:05 AM   #20
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See post #18.
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Old February 14, 2012, 08:46 AM   #21
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What do you suppose makes one place more dangerous than another? Hawaii had a total of 24 murders in 2010 with a population of around 1,375,000. Pretty dangerous, huh? Phoenix with a population of 1,445,000, had 119 murders while Dallas had 148 murders with a population of about 1,200,000.

If you want danger, go to Birmingham. There were 273 murders with a population of 212,000. More dangerous than El Paso.

The county where I live has a resident population of about 1,100,000 but could only manage 16 murders.
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Old February 14, 2012, 02:18 PM   #22
tnxdshooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
See post #18.
So how are they filing briefs after a ruling that was supposed to be made in January. I reckon it is painfully obvious that they didn't rule on it.
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Old February 14, 2012, 08:51 PM   #23
Funtimes
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The case was delayed till March, the judge was unavailable for the hearing.
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Old February 14, 2012, 09:50 PM   #24
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That's a heck of a note - can the judge be removed for incompentance or subpoened for failure to appear?
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Old March 8, 2012, 11:00 PM   #25
Funtimes
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http://ia600709.us.archive.org/0/ite...53.docket.html

LOTS of updates and filings back and forth - funny reading is in the police declaration at the end.
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