Hiding serial numbers in posted pictures

Cascade1911 · May 22, 2011, 08:47 AM

I see some do and some don't. I'm wondering why you would or wouldn't.

Double Naught Spy · May 22, 2011, 09:52 AM

It is identifying information that others don't need to know...which is a good reason to hide it.

Cascade1911 · May 22, 2011, 10:03 AM

I'm sure you are right as far as less info is better but what exactly would someone do with the info.
Or to put it another way, you declare to the world that you own a 4" Colt Python, post a picture of it, how can showing the serial number be more revealing?
I'm of the mind that if I'm concerned about what info I put out on the internet (and I am) I probably shouldn't be posting pictures of my gun collection at all.

jmr40 · May 22, 2011, 10:50 AM

Same reason you don't post your SSN on the net. Someone out there will find a way to use that info in a way harmful to you.

Double Naught Spy · May 22, 2011, 10:59 AM

Watch what happens if somebody sees a pic of your gun with its serial number and then reports it as stolen. You now have a gun with a serial number that is on a lot of lists as a stolen gun.

Is that a hassle you are willing to have to handle?

The notion that if you should not post the serial number that maybe you should not post the pic at all is a bit silly. However, if you are into the all or nothing sentiment, then you should not even be on the internet.

Your picture alone won't do anything because it is a picture of an item for which there are 10s of thousands or more. A serial number makes it very specific.

Cascade1911 · May 22, 2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Same reason you don't post your SSN on the net. Someone out there will find a way to use that info in a way harmful to you.

Again, not disagreeing but what is someone going to do with the serial number? How is posting the S/N more dangerous than posting a picture of the firearm itself with the s/n blanked.

I could be wrong but I do not think SSN is a good analogy. I can't open a line of credit with a gun s/n. I can't access a bank account with a gun s/n. What can someone do with a s/n any more than they could do with say a VIN #?

Cascade1911 · May 22, 2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Watch what happens if somebody sees a pic of your gun with its serial number and then reports it as stolen.

That's an interesting idea. Not sure how it works in the real world, If I wanted to do that I could go to a gun shop, gun show or gunbroker.com, copy a s/n and report it stolen. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me but you could have something.

As far as "all or nothing", not at all. To me, I can see that making my collection wide spread public knowledge could be much more dangerous (to would be thieves) than the actual s/n. Again, I could be wrong.

bigbaby · May 22, 2011, 11:33 AM

You guys are scaring me; there go my pics! Thanks for the heads up! This is a cool convo.

**Bud Helms** · May 22, 2011, 11:38 AM

What is a convo?

bigbaby · May 22, 2011, 11:44 AM

It is street talk for conversation. Spelling is not a priority for who ever first said that. LOL

teumessian_fox · May 22, 2011, 12:39 PM

It's nothing more than paranoia. If you peruse gunbroker.com you'll find hundreds of examples of people fully revealing the serial numbers of their guns.

And, it's absolutely nothing like posting one's social security number.

With all the caveats re posting the serial number, nobody has ever shown where anybody has gotten into difficulty doing such.

Rifleman1776 · May 22, 2011, 02:07 PM

I have always thought hiding the ser # was a silly, paranoid, precaution.
However, the argument that the gun might be reported as stolen seem, to me, to be a valid concern and reason to conceal the number.
Why someone would want to do that is a silly question.
Same reason someone would want to create a computer virus that harms peoples computers and lives.
Because they are nutso, sociopathic creeps. That's why.
I'll hide my numbers on-line in the future.

teumessian_fox · May 22, 2011, 02:29 PM

OK. I'll bite.

Show me a single instance where someone has done what you describe.

Show me a single instance where a legitimate gun owner has run into difficulty because a) he posted a gun's serial number online and (you understand the significance of the conjunction in logic, right?) b) someone else falsely reported the gun as stolen.

With the, probably hundreds, of threads posted re this subject, and the thousands of paranoiacs singing the same tune, it shouldn't be difficult. That is, if, in fact, it has ever happened.

jmr40 · May 22, 2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Same reason you don't post your SSN on the net. Someone out there will find a way to use that info in a way harmful to you.

Again, not disagreeing but what is someone going to do with the serial number? How is posting the S/N more dangerous than posting a picture of the firearm itself with the s/n blanked.

I could be wrong but I do not think SSN is a good analogy. I can't open a line of credit with a gun s/n. I can't access a bank account with a gun s/n. What can someone do with a s/n any more than they could do with say a VIN #?

Using a photo of your gun with SN can and has been used in insurance scams. A dishonest person can print a photo of your gun to show proof of ownership and report it as stolen to the police and his Insurance company. You may never know it happened unless the police run the SN on the gun for some reason. It could be years, even decades later. Probably never, but if your gun shows up on a list of stolen guns it will be a major inconvience for you at least. Many of my guns were purchased used with no paper trail decades ago before I ever gave any thought to such things. It becomes my word against someone else.

While I'm confident I could stay out of jail, it is just so much easier to never put myself in such a position.

tape · May 22, 2011, 04:34 PM

like hiding your plates on your car, seems silly to me, showing your sn won't cause anything bad, I will give you my sn's off my guns if you like them.

teumessian_fox · May 22, 2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

A dishonest person can print a photo of your gun to show proof of ownership and report it as stolen

Yeah, like I said, I'm still waiting for you to show an example of this having happened. Just one example, please.

tape · May 22, 2011, 09:38 PM

^^^ditto^^^, sure would look funny me having the receipt and someone reporting it stolen.

ClayInTx · May 22, 2011, 11:01 PM

Hindsight: If I had known then what I know now....

Double Naught Spy · May 22, 2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

^^^ditto^^^, sure would look funny me having the receipt and someone reporting it stolen.

Unless you carry the receipts with you at all times, your chance to prove you have the receipts certainly may come AFTER you have been arrested, booked, and/or charged with a crime.

While not from a gun image online, when I worked in a pawn shop, we had 2 particular guns seized (handguns). The owner was arrested for the stolen guns. He did not have the receipts and it would not have mattered if he had given that he was arrested away from home (where most folks keep such records). Eventually, things were cleared up. The report was given by a disgruntled former roommate who was seeking revenge on our customer. He had actually reported a lot of things stolen several months prior, but only the guns had been pawned. Before they split, the upset roommie had copied down makes, models, SNs, etc. of many of our customer's items. Being arrested caused numerous problems for our customer, though in the end he was cleared, record expunged (or so I was told) and the roomie arrested.

The reason I am familiar with the incident as this was back when all of our pawn tickets were collected weekly by the police and so we were kept in the loop on what was happening with the case regularly.

Is letting folks know the SN a big threat? No, of course not. However, it is a simple precaution that could prevent you from suffering a lot of hassle you don't deserve.

Dre_sa · May 22, 2011, 11:10 PM

an ounce of prevention I think it goes...

I doubt anyone would do anything with my serial numbers, unless they plan to be truly malicious. I'm just not willing to take that chance.

I do however like guns and photography both, so I try to take good pics and share them with whoever cares to look.

tape · May 22, 2011, 11:22 PM

Double Naught Spy, It doesn't matter, in the end whoever claims it was stolen will end up in prison. It would just be completely stupid to even think about it. I stand by my posts on this issue.

kilimanjaro · May 22, 2011, 11:35 PM

I don't toss a single piece of paper with personal identification or account numbers, whatever, in the trash. It goes in the fireplace, instead. The reasons behind that are the same reasons I don't post lists of my collection online, put NRA stickers on my car, or tell people I'm carrying a concealed weapon. It's no one else's business and disclosure can cause problems I would rather not have. Same with the serial numbers. I'll share that data with whoever needs to know it, not the entire planet.

HotShot.444 · May 23, 2011, 01:10 AM

... compared to 39! Amazing! (But Bud should've known what 'convo' means!)

jmr40 · May 23, 2011, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Yeah, like I said, I'm still waiting for you to show an example of this having happened. Just one example, please.

I'm not sure of the exact details, but several years ago a group of hunters were traveling to Canada. All guns going into Canada from the US must be registered. When the SN's were run one gun came back stolen. The hunter had purchased the rifle years earlier from an individual at a gunshow and had no receipt. He was allowed into Canada where he hunted with a borrowed rifle.

After returning home he was able to contact Remington, who had a record of him sending the rifle to them for repair work. The rifle was returned to the hunter after Remingtons documentation proved he was in ownership of the rifle prior to the gun being reported stolen. It took severtal months and a trip back to the border to get his rifle.

Things like this probably happen a lot more than we realize. How often do you have the SN's run on your guns to check to see if they have been reported stolen? I've owned several hundred guns in my lifetime, down to around 60 at this time and I've had the SN ran by LE exactly 1 time. I was planning an extended cross country trip and wanted to carry a gun I had purchased used. I called a friend in LE to double check that gun before leaving. I could very easily own several guns that have been reported as stolen and would never know until my grandchildren try to sell them 50 years from now.

I realize the internet is not the only way to obtain a guns SN, but it is so easy just to not let others know what they are. In a nutshell nothing good could ever come from posting a guns SN, only bad. So why do it?

**Bud Helms** · May 23, 2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

(But Bud should've known what 'convo' means!)

Bud has urbandictionary.com bookmarked. The context clued me in, but it was ambiguous enough, I wasn't sure. So, I had to look it up.

On topic ... I do wonder about the safety of guarding your serial numbers, while having a list of every gun you own in your signature line. That is all it really takes. The serial number doesn't matter until a subsequent owner tries to transact legally at a later date.

I have heard of bogus claims of stolen guns, using a serial number found in an online photo. But I don't know if it is a big problem.

May 22, 2011, 08:47 AM	#1
Cascade1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 450	Hiding serial numbers in posted pictures I see some do and some don't. I'm wondering why you would or wouldn't.

May 22, 2011, 09:52 AM	#2
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,793	It is identifying information that others don't need to know...which is a good reason to hide it. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 22, 2011, 10:59 AM	#5
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,793	Watch what happens if somebody sees a pic of your gun with its serial number and then reports it as stolen. You now have a gun with a serial number that is on a lot of lists as a stolen gun. Is that a hassle you are willing to have to handle? The notion that if you should not post the serial number that maybe you should not post the pic at all is a bit silly. However, if you are into the all or nothing sentiment, then you should not even be on the internet. Your picture alone won't do anything because it is a picture of an item for which there are 10s of thousands or more. A serial number makes it very specific. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 23, 2011, 01:10 AM	#23
HotShot.444 Junior member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Posts: 112	Amazing, the wisdom of 11,788 posts ... ... compared to 39! Amazing! (But Bud should've known what 'convo' means!)

May 22, 2011, 10:03 AM	#3
Cascade1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 450	I'm sure you are right as far as less info is better but what exactly would someone do with the info. Or to put it another way, you declare to the world that you own a 4" Colt Python, post a picture of it, how can showing the serial number be more revealing? I'm of the mind that if I'm concerned about what info I put out on the internet (and I am) I probably shouldn't be posting pictures of my gun collection at all.

May 22, 2011, 10:50 AM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,973	Same reason you don't post your SSN on the net. Someone out there will find a way to use that info in a way harmful to you.

May 22, 2011, 11:33 AM	#8
bigbaby Member Join Date: May 11, 2011 Location: Baltimore Posts: 79	You guys are scaring me; there go my pics! Thanks for the heads up! This is a cool convo.

May 22, 2011, 11:38 AM	#9
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	What is a convo?

May 22, 2011, 11:44 AM	#10
bigbaby Member Join Date: May 11, 2011 Location: Baltimore Posts: 79	It is street talk for conversation. Spelling is not a priority for who ever first said that. LOL

May 22, 2011, 12:39 PM	#11
teumessian_fox Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2010 Location: Staying ahead of Laelaps Posts: 196	It's nothing more than paranoia. If you peruse gunbroker.com you'll find hundreds of examples of people fully revealing the serial numbers of their guns. And, it's absolutely nothing like posting one's social security number. With all the caveats re posting the serial number, nobody has ever shown where anybody has gotten into difficulty doing such.

May 22, 2011, 02:07 PM	#12
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	I have always thought hiding the ser # was a silly, paranoid, precaution. However, the argument that the gun might be reported as stolen seem, to me, to be a valid concern and reason to conceal the number. Why someone would want to do that is a silly question. Same reason someone would want to create a computer virus that harms peoples computers and lives. Because they are nutso, sociopathic creeps. That's why. I'll hide my numbers on-line in the future.

May 22, 2011, 02:29 PM	#13
teumessian_fox Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2010 Location: Staying ahead of Laelaps Posts: 196	OK. I'll bite. Show me a single instance where someone has done what you describe. Show me a single instance where a legitimate gun owner has run into difficulty because a) he posted a gun's serial number online and (you understand the significance of the conjunction in logic, right?) b) someone else falsely reported the gun as stolen. With the, probably hundreds, of threads posted re this subject, and the thousands of paranoiacs singing the same tune, it shouldn't be difficult. That is, if, in fact, it has ever happened.

May 22, 2011, 04:34 PM	#15
tape Junior member Join Date: May 15, 2011 Posts: 136	like hiding your plates on your car, seems silly to me, showing your sn won't cause anything bad, I will give you my sn's off my guns if you like them.

May 22, 2011, 09:38 PM	#17
tape Junior member Join Date: May 15, 2011 Posts: 136	^^^ditto^^^, sure would look funny me having the receipt and someone reporting it stolen.

May 22, 2011, 11:01 PM	#18
ClayInTx Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,066	Hindsight: If I had known then what I know now....

May 22, 2011, 11:10 PM	#20
Dre_sa Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Left coast Posts: 610	an ounce of prevention I think it goes... I doubt anyone would do anything with my serial numbers, unless they plan to be truly malicious. I'm just not willing to take that chance. I do however like guns and photography both, so I try to take good pics and share them with whoever cares to look.

May 22, 2011, 11:22 PM	#21
tape Junior member Join Date: May 15, 2011 Posts: 136	Double Naught Spy, It doesn't matter, in the end whoever claims it was stolen will end up in prison. It would just be completely stupid to even think about it. I stand by my posts on this issue.

May 22, 2011, 11:35 PM	#22
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I don't toss a single piece of paper with personal identification or account numbers, whatever, in the trash. It goes in the fireplace, instead. The reasons behind that are the same reasons I don't post lists of my collection online, put NRA stickers on my car, or tell people I'm carrying a concealed weapon. It's no one else's business and disclosure can cause problems I would rather not have. Same with the serial numbers. I'll share that data with whoever needs to know it, not the entire planet.