Sig P232 Double Feed Problems

[theskunk]

My Sig appears to have a bolt malfunction. The fired shell is dropping before it can hit the ejector. Anyone got a solution?

[Misssissippi Dave]

I'm not too sure about this but have you checked the extractor? Possibly weak ammo or slide isn't properly lubricated. There are plenty of things that might cause this problem. It might be a bit difficult to nail it down to something without more information.

[j2flan]

Would like to help but I`m not sure what you are calling the "bolt" or the case "falling". Will it hand cycle rounds?(point in safe direction or better use dummy rounds, Maybe this schematic will help

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0...icsdetail/P232)

[Rugerismisticness]

That is certainly the extractor, call or go to the Sig arms website and order a new one.

[j2flan]

hey skunk

you posted this on another fourm and showed a picture of a MK111 with that issue? Are you asking about a 232? It does not have a bolt and there is not enough room in the sig slide for what you showed to happen. I have and shoot the 232, might be able to offer some help if you could better explain what is happening with your gun. Hope you get it solved.

[theskunk]

The Sig 232

The gun fires, the shell extracts, but as soon as it clears the chamber the casing stovepipes, or drops in the ejection well.

I have compared it to my Sig 226, Browning HP, Mauser Broomhandle, Kimber Ultra, Ruger 22, but they all hold an empty casing until they hit the extractor.

I have changed ammo, checked the ejector, checked the extractor, etc. and all are functioning. Since it is a new gun I am hoping Sig Sauer will fix it.

[theskunk]

Thanks Mr J2flan ...

What you call the slide, I call the bolt. The area around the firing pin that rests on the chambered round is what I refer to as the bolt face.

[bamaranger]

Welcome to the Forum. You've got some terms mixed up, but we'll be patient.

Auto pistols have slides, and the area supporting the cartridge around the firing pin is known as the breech face. Once a cartridge is fired, it typically is referred to as a spent case, or empty case. A stove pipe is a very classic failure to eject, with the spent case stuck vertically out from the slide. A double feed, I call that a failure in a bolt rifle, manipulated poorly.

First suspects in any auto pistol are the ammo and mags and cleaning and lube. My P230 is fussy re ammo, and some old mags gave me fits till I got new ones. Underpowered ammo can cause smoke stacks. If you are truly consistently getting "smoke stacks" check and be sure that the main spring is not reversed. It is not uncommon for a SIG mainspring to get on backwards. "Tight is right". The main spring has one end a smaller dia than the other. Very slight, but perceptible once your aware of it. The tight end goes on barrel first. (on big SIGS, the tight end goes over the end of the guide rod first). Low slide speed can cause failures. Lack of lube, same same.

If you can rule out all the above, and the spent cases just end up loose to get wedged in the breech area, you may have a a chipped or broken extractor. (you may be able to compare your extractor hook to another pistol and see if its cracked or deformed) or possibly a weak extractor spring, which tensions the "hook" itself. If you consistently load your pistol by dropping the slide on a round manually loaded into the chamber, the extractor hook can receive abnormal wear. Same if you shoot much steel cased ammo. It is also possible that the extractor is gummed up with dirt and grit and the pistol needs armorer stripped and cleaned. P230's get carried in adverse conditions due to their small size, and the extractor is not completely accessible for cleaning in a field strip. I heard a SIG rep state that a very high number of pistols returned to the factory, due to failures and unreliability, simply get detail cleaned and lubed, and run fine.

The ejector would be the last part I'd swap. Its big and durable, and easily visible for inspection.

Good luck. Your little SIG should run like a sewing machine

[theskunk]

Ok Mr Bamaranger ..... You obviously know your guns

My Sig P232 fires, the slide recoils, the spent shells drops, and the slide continues, picks up a new shell, and shoves it at a 45 degree angle into the barrel.

My first thoughts were bad ammo (too weak for total slide function), so I went to factory recommended ammo. Next, I dissasembled and used Sig Miltec oil on all parts. Then I tried a reduced power recoil spring from Wolff. Then I realized the pistol was picking up a 2nd round, so the malfunction had to be something else.

I examined the extractor and found it to be in perfect condition. So, I sent it back to Sig, and they replaced a slide lock.

The gun came back, off to the range, and more double feeds. (Two cartridges jammed together). On closer examination I took out the recoil spring, put a spent cartridge in the chamber, and slowly cycled the slide. That's when I noticed the breech face had no lip to hold the shell.

You have a Sig P230, and your gun has the correct breech face. My P232 doesn't.

[j2flan]

hey skunk
bamaranger explained a lot better than I could.

you got me wondering, the 232 is my everyday carry gun so I have been trying to acheive the same as what you are getting with my 232. I can only get the same jam with the mag slightly out while slowly retracting the slide?

does your extractor show "loaded" with a round in the chamber? put one round in a mag, slide locked, slowly let the slide forward, if it picks up the round, the "lip" as you call it is there. i would think sig would have caught that, but you never know.

you say the fired rounds case drops, it really can`t drop with a round in the mag, does it get catch in the port? i am thinking that if ALL springs are in place correctly it may be a mag issue.

like to know how this ends--good luck

[bamaranger]

hey skunk

You are correct, my P230SL does indeed have a recess milled into the breech face, half moon shaped, to hold/position the case rim re the extractor hook. Am I correct in understanding your 232 does not have this recesss? Are you stating that your 232 should have the breech face recess, but does not?

Hard to believe SIG would miss that !

Is it possible that one of the differences between 230 & 232 is a lack of said recess? I dunno. I had thought the only difference was in the lockwork (trigger mech) but I sure could be wrong.

SIG replacing the slide lock is interesting, because the slide lock also serves as the ejector and by now it's pretty clear you seem to have an ejection problem.

Back to SIG if it were mine.

Good luck

[j2flan]

hey skunk

my 232 does not have a recess in the breach face, it looks like one is there but run a pick across the breach face and it ain`t there. the extractor spring, is it in correctly? other than trying what has already been said, if it still fails to eject, call sig/send it back.

[faacorp]

My 232 runs great when using hollow points but does not work at all when cycling FMJ ammo. My 238 is the opposite, FMJ ammo cycles beautifully while hollow points Jam. Go figure......

[theskunk]

The 232 has no recess, so when the slide retracts the shell falls into the ejection port/mag well. Sig depends on the extractor to richochet the casing out.

Sigs standard answer is ...."Run 600 rounds through it and break it in"

[theskunk]

A recess on a normal bolt/slide. My Sig 232 has no recess. Maks, PPKs, CZ-82, are identical and all have recesses

[bamaranger]

So, ...I learn stuff all the time. The 232 has no recess on the breech face, there you go. Undoubtedly a cost cutting measure. One less operation to mill and produce.

Also, the "extractor" withdraws the spent case from the chamber, the "ejector" kicks it out. Two separate parts and functions. The ejector on the 230/232 series is on the slide lock bar.

Send that puppy back to SIG, tell'em, make it work!!!!!!!!

good luck

[theskunk]

Ya Mr Bamaranger

I took apart eight of my pistols ... everyone had the recess, so did all of my rifles. Then I went to four gun shops, and a gun show. I saw 50 different pistols.

The ejector is just a small lip on the internal slide lock .... more cost cutting.

And the P232 is suppose to be a $700 'Backup pistol'?

[bamaranger]

Well, I didn't pay but about half that for mine, but it was quite a few years ago, and the darn thing has been reliable except for a stint when the two original mags went south for some reason.

The breech face recess issue has been very interesting, I did not know the 232 was not so equipped.

The ejector on my early 230SL is also on the lock bar, a small tab as you describe, and that seems standard, not a cost cut. The P220 and the 226 use somewhat similar arrangements.

All for me, good luck w/ it.

[theskunk]

Bamranger .... Your German made 230 is a classic and it will do nothing but appreciate