Kimber Malfunctions

willr · February 6, 2011, 03:13 PM

Today's newspaper has an article about the North Carolina Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement. The ALE have disposed of 150 Kimber 1911's because they malfunctioned in practice sessions. They say they documented 289 malfunctions during training exercises. The article says they had jamming, broken sights, safety falling off. ALE traded the Kimbers for Sig Sauer 220's apparently.

Whether this is a matter of maintenance, quality control, age, or something else isn't clear.

My experience of Kimber is good, but if anyone else has knowledge of this it might be good to respond.

willr

stickhauler · February 6, 2011, 07:08 PM

I think (from the way I read the report anyway) that they'd found a way to build their personal firearm collection in a much more economical manner, and letting the taxpayers take the loss. Any agency changing out issue firearms on a interval of around every 3 years isn't really researching what they buy. But they found a way for themselves and their buddies to buy quality handguns at half price when they "traded in" their issue handguns.

Sturmgewehre · February 6, 2011, 07:38 PM

This will be a popular news story on the boards shortly.

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/02/06...ome-guns.html#

The agency dropped Kimber saying the pistols were unreliable.

sirsloop · February 6, 2011, 07:41 PM

What exactly is "collector-grade"??

twhidd · February 6, 2011, 07:47 PM

It sounds to me that this "avid gun buff and collector" Bill Chandler chose style over practicality. Why didn't he go with what knew already worked in the first place?

Rugerismisticness · February 6, 2011, 07:48 PM

A sig 220 is not a bad trade, but a 552 for any M4 is a bad move.

sixgun67 · February 6, 2011, 07:59 PM

Sounds like a few officers wanted an 'agency identifiable' souvenir, so they were ordered. Could have been that somebody stepped on somebody else's toes by ordering them, and had to figure a good reason to unload them. I can't believe for one minute that there were so many defects, in the very same agency and not spread around the country, from Kimber.

Original pistols "worn out" in only 3 years? My God man, just how big is their ammo budget? I call BS on this also.
sixgun

**Shane Tuttle** · February 6, 2011, 08:10 PM

Does your newspaper have a website with a link? I'd like to read it...

michael t · February 6, 2011, 08:30 PM

I thought the 500 round break in cured everything guess not.

Guess they should have got Colts

gc70 · February 6, 2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Records show Ledford arranged a deal in July to trade in the agency's 120 Sig Sauer 552 assault rifles, which were bought in 2006 at a cost of $179,400. Ledford said last week that the trade-in was necessary because the 2006 rifles had been discontinued and spare parts were not available.

Wow, no spare parts are available - even though the Sig 55x series is in use by military and police organizations in 10 countries.

This certainly makes me wonder exactly what type of 'deal' Ledford got on the trade-ins.

orionengnr · February 6, 2011, 08:37 PM

Yes. After reading the articles, both original and follow-on, it is clear that this agency has some issues with fiscal responsibility. Bought a bunch of Sigs between 2003 and 2006, then declared that they were "worn out" and needed replacement. The pistols were then offered to the agents at a deep discount. This is the agency that regulates alcohol sales, fer cryin' out loud. It is not the Highway Patrol, or a city agency. The article said that

Quote:

ALE agents rarely get into shootouts, but it has happened. An agent was shot and killed in the line of duty in 1994.

Quote:

A review of Internal ALE records going back three decades shows the agency has bought all new firearms every few years. The old guns are then typically sold to ALE staff, usually for less than half the price the state originally paid.

Then they spent $158,000 on the Kimbers, and

Quote:

there are just 112 full-time agents statewide. An additional 22 retired ALE personnel serve as "reserve agents."

Sign me up for that gig.

It also talked about how they had traded in over 100 Sig 223 rifles for AR15s. Why does an agency that regulates alcohol sales need assault rifles in the first place, let alone new ones every three years? The DHS/Stimulus mindset is running rampant. This is political corruption running rampant with taxpayers' money.
All of the related articles are linked to this post:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=302740

Here's the best part:
After the first two stories got out, the agency decided not to sell some of the "worn out", surplus but still NIB Sigs...

Quote:

In September, ALE conducted a lottery among its agents for the opportunity to buy one of 43 Sig Sauer pistols left over from purchases in 2003 and 2006. Several of the pistols were brand new and in their original boxes.

That presented a problem. State law allows agents to purchase weapons "worn or carried" by the officer in the field, when the agent is issued a new weapon.

With the approval of his supervisors at the N.C. Department of Crime Control and Public Safety, ALE Director John Ledford proposed issuing the Sigs to the agents drawn through the lottery as a "secondary weapon" to their Kimber service pistols. The Sig pistols would then be declared surplus and sold to the agents for as little as $270, a price set by surveying three gun dealers for what they would pay for a used Sig of the same make and model. The pistols originally cost the state $685.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#ixzz1DEIELgAz

DonR101395 · February 6, 2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Does your newspaper have a website with a link? I'd like to read it...

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...et-traded.html

thinktwice · February 6, 2011, 08:53 PM

I think everyone here, can read between the lines...... It's all POLITICS!

LockedBreech · February 6, 2011, 08:56 PM

Things seem a little fishy with that agency's firearm purchase practices.

That said, they are hardly the only ones who have reported reliability issues with Kimber. When lives are on the line, reliability must be assured.

Jim243 · February 6, 2011, 09:15 PM

It sounds like they have been drinking to much moon shine. 115 guns and not one sent back to Kimber for repair and only training falures. 50 cents will get you a dollar that the new guns will be 9mm or 40 S&W. Something stinks in NC beside rotten fish.

Jim

ATW525 · February 6, 2011, 09:20 PM

Did I read that right? Guy orders the Kimbers the same year he retires and then buys one for a dollar?

HammerOfThor · February 7, 2011, 12:56 AM

Kind of off topic but I was able to buy a "cop gun" last summer. They had upgraded to something else. Sig P220 in excellent condition for $320.00/ Gotta love it. They had 13 in all along with a bunch of mossberg shotty's and a mini 14. Needless to say it all went very fast.

By the way. That sig is a very nice pistol. I highly recomend.

**Tom Servo** · February 7, 2011, 01:14 AM

Sig 552's?!? This is one well-funded agency if they're switching out guns that often.

While I've seen my fair share of issues with Kimbers, I find an odd coincidence in the fact that the chief was able to buy his for $1 on retiring, shortly after initiating the change.

golfnutrlv · February 7, 2011, 02:51 AM

There seems to be a whole lot of BS going on at that agency. As well as a whole lot of "personal benefits".

Taxpayers should voice their concerns about it for sure.

Auto426 · February 7, 2011, 03:06 AM

You definitely have to question these reports of unreliability after looking at the departments purchasing records. Seems like these guys will come up with any excuse they can to get new guns, then buy the old ones for themselves at heavily discounted prices. I have to get me one of these government jobs one day

.

eastbank · February 7, 2011, 09:45 AM

my new to me used kimber desert warrion is a good pistol and works fine. eastbank.

Sarge · February 7, 2011, 10:34 AM

If you were sending me straight to a fight and offered me the choice between a Sig 220 or a Kimber, I'd take the Sig every time.

18DAI · February 7, 2011, 12:12 PM

The former director was a Kimber fanboy. Therefore - everybody got a Kimber. No T&E, just a new POS Kimber placed in your holster. 3" no less

He got a sweet deal buying it for $1 when he retired too.

There was nothing wrong with the Sig 229s they had prior to the Kimbers.

The only good news is that ALE did this with confiscated funds, instead of tax payer dollars. Regards 18DAI.

Skans · February 7, 2011, 12:58 PM

Kimbers look nice. Sigs get the job done.

voyager4520 · February 7, 2011, 02:13 PM

The article seems to focus more on the fact that the department buys very expensive new guns every few years and sells the old ones to their officers for as low as $1.

The Kimbers shown in the article are beautiful though, makes me want one.

Anyone know the particular sights on those guns?

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/02/06...ome-guns.html# (I'm referring to THIS article)

February 6, 2011, 03:13 PM	#1
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	Kimber Malfunctions Today's newspaper has an article about the North Carolina Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement. The ALE have disposed of 150 Kimber 1911's because they malfunctioned in practice sessions. They say they documented 289 malfunctions during training exercises. The article says they had jamming, broken sights, safety falling off. ALE traded the Kimbers for Sig Sauer 220's apparently. Whether this is a matter of maintenance, quality control, age, or something else isn't clear. My experience of Kimber is good, but if anyone else has knowledge of this it might be good to respond. willr

February 6, 2011, 07:38 PM	#3
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	NC police agency dumps Kimber This will be a popular news story on the boards shortly. http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/02/06...ome-guns.html# The agency dropped Kimber saying the pistols were unreliable. __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

February 6, 2011, 07:47 PM	#5
twhidd Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 823	It sounds to me that this "avid gun buff and collector" Bill Chandler chose style over practicality. Why didn't he go with what knew already worked in the first place? __________________ Todd NRA Life Member

February 6, 2011, 08:10 PM	#8
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,455	Does your newspaper have a website with a link? I'd like to read it... __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

February 7, 2011, 01:14 AM	#18
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,095	Sig 552's?!? This is one well-funded agency if they're switching out guns that often. While I've seen my fair share of issues with Kimbers, I find an odd coincidence in the fact that the chief was able to buy his for $1 on retiring, shortly after initiating the change. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

February 6, 2011, 07:08 PM	#2
stickhauler Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2009 Posts: 244	I think (from the way I read the report anyway) that they'd found a way to build their personal firearm collection in a much more economical manner, and letting the taxpayers take the loss. Any agency changing out issue firearms on a interval of around every 3 years isn't really researching what they buy. But they found a way for themselves and their buddies to buy quality handguns at half price when they "traded in" their issue handguns.

February 6, 2011, 07:41 PM	#4
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	What exactly is "collector-grade"??

February 6, 2011, 07:48 PM	#6
Rugerismisticness Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 909	A sig 220 is not a bad trade, but a 552 for any M4 is a bad move.

February 6, 2011, 07:59 PM	#7
sixgun67 Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2009 Location: New Philadelphia, Oh Posts: 238	Sounds like a few officers wanted an 'agency identifiable' souvenir, so they were ordered. Could have been that somebody stepped on somebody else's toes by ordering them, and had to figure a good reason to unload them. I can't believe for one minute that there were so many defects, in the very same agency and not spread around the country, from Kimber. Original pistols "worn out" in only 3 years? My God man, just how big is their ammo budget? I call BS on this also. sixgun

February 6, 2011, 08:30 PM	#9
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	I thought the 500 round break in cured everything guess not. Guess they should have got Colts

February 6, 2011, 08:53 PM	#13
thinktwice Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2007 Posts: 293	I think everyone here, can read between the lines...... It's all POLITICS!

February 6, 2011, 08:56 PM	#14
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Rocky Mountain West Posts: 3,395	Things seem a little fishy with that agency's firearm purchase practices. That said, they are hardly the only ones who have reported reliability issues with Kimber. When lives are on the line, reliability must be assured.

February 6, 2011, 09:15 PM	#15
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	It sounds like they have been drinking to much moon shine. 115 guns and not one sent back to Kimber for repair and only training falures. 50 cents will get you a dollar that the new guns will be 9mm or 40 S&W. Something stinks in NC beside rotten fish. Jim

February 6, 2011, 09:20 PM	#16
ATW525 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Concord, NH Posts: 2,723	Did I read that right? Guy orders the Kimbers the same year he retires and then buys one for a dollar?

February 7, 2011, 12:56 AM	#17
HammerOfThor Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Posts: 19	Kind of off topic but I was able to buy a "cop gun" last summer. They had upgraded to something else. Sig P220 in excellent condition for $320.00/ Gotta love it. They had 13 in all along with a bunch of mossberg shotty's and a mini 14. Needless to say it all went very fast. By the way. That sig is a very nice pistol. I highly recomend.

February 7, 2011, 02:51 AM	#19
golfnutrlv Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 1,347	There seems to be a whole lot of BS going on at that agency. As well as a whole lot of "personal benefits". Taxpayers should voice their concerns about it for sure.

February 7, 2011, 03:06 AM	#20
Auto426 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,323	You definitely have to question these reports of unreliability after looking at the departments purchasing records. Seems like these guys will come up with any excuse they can to get new guns, then buy the old ones for themselves at heavily discounted prices. I have to get me one of these government jobs one day . __________________ *"Si vis pacem, para bellum"* - If you want peace, prepare for war.

February 7, 2011, 09:45 AM	#21
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,512	my new to me used kimber desert warrion is a good pistol and works fine. eastbank.

February 7, 2011, 10:34 AM	#22
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,495	If you were sending me straight to a fight and offered me the choice between a Sig 220 or a Kimber, I'd take the Sig every time. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

February 7, 2011, 12:12 PM	#23
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	The former director was a Kimber fanboy. Therefore - everybody got a Kimber. No T&E, just a new POS Kimber placed in your holster. 3" no less He got a sweet deal buying it for $1 when he retired too. There was nothing wrong with the Sig 229s they had prior to the Kimbers. The only good news is that ALE did this with confiscated funds, instead of tax payer dollars. Regards 18DAI.

February 7, 2011, 12:58 PM	#24
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,332	Kimbers look nice. Sigs get the job done.

February 7, 2011, 02:13 PM	#25
voyager4520 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2009 Location: SE Colorado Posts: 840	The article seems to focus more on the fact that the department buys very expensive new guns every few years and sells the old ones to their officers for as low as $1. The Kimbers shown in the article are beautiful though, makes me want one. Anyone know the particular sights on those guns? http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/02/06...ome-guns.html# (I'm referring to THIS article)