How to align sights on a hand gun?

kemassey · November 30, 2010, 08:49 PM

I'm new to handguns and am trying to figure out how to use the sights. I have an HK USP .40 and a Springfield XDM .45 that I target practice with. I'm using the nice orange and black bullseye that shows white when you hit the target. With the .40 I was shooting at the right side and hitting on the left side. With the .45 I was shooting at the bullseye and hitting on the left side. These are both factory sights that have not been messed with. I guess that I just don't know how to aim with a hand gun. Any help would be appreciated so hopefully I can get on the paper.

KurtC · November 30, 2010, 09:04 PM

This diagram shows how to align the various types of sights that are on handguns and rifles, using a 6 o'clock hold on circle target.

Casimer · November 30, 2010, 09:07 PM

You're probably aiming correctly, but throwing the shot w/ your execution.

This is what your sight alignment should look like.

Your problem may be related to the placement of your trigger finger. If so, dry firing is a good way to diagnose this problem, and correct for it.

shortwave · November 30, 2010, 09:24 PM

Are you sure its the sighting rather than your trigger pull? If you align your front sight in the middle of the rear, aiming dead bullseye and both guns are shooting to the left chances are its your shooting technique and that needs corrected.

Are you shooting right handed?

If so, since both your pistols are shooting to the left, maybe its due to you squeezing the gun with your whole hand when pulling the trigger rather than just moving your trigger finger.

If you tighten your whole grip on the gun while pulling the trigger, more than likely when shooting right handed, you'll hit left.

Practice shooting, concentrating on squeezing the trigger, moving only your trigger finger straight back and not gripping the rest of your hand/fingers tighter the more you squeeze the trigger.

Also, how much of your trigger finger are you applying to the trigger? To much can pull right while to little can push left.

A good tool to use for practicing trigger control is a laser sight.

When dryfire practicing, a cheap pencil type laser light taped to the muzzle will show you exactly how your barrel is dancing as you squeeze the trigger. Especially aimed at a wall in a dark room. Of course, naturally doublecheck and make sure your gun is unloaded.

4runnerman · November 30, 2010, 09:33 PM

Kurtc. Thanks for the pic. I can use that too,Glad i jumped into this post.

SauerGrapes · November 30, 2010, 09:51 PM

Might I suggest an NRA basic pistol course? If you shoot at a gun club, maybe you can get some help from an experienced shooter.

If your just starting out with pistols, an instructor can be a big help to get you going in the right direction. NRA guy or just a verteran pistol shooter.

I shot pistol for about a year before I learned a lot of what I was doing was counterproductive.

kemassey · November 30, 2010, 10:57 PM

Thanks for all the good replys. I do shoot right handed. I try to get just enough finger to cover the trigger and not overlap to much. I think I have been doing all the above mentioned things that cause problems. I have been dry firing it. I noticed sometimes that when I pulled the trigger the gun would move to the side. I think most of the problems are caused by me. I'm also curious about dry firing, if it will damage the firing pin on either pistol? Also thanks for illustrations. If it warms up will get out and practice more.

iMagUdspEllr · December 1, 2010, 03:52 AM

I was wondering about this 6 o'clock hold thing for a while. I saw your thread and I did some more digging about it. I found this link: http://www.fuzzylimey.net/oddsnends/...ml#anchor75121

It explains how 6 o'clock hold really works. It isn't just a matter of putting the target on top of the sights. Apparently you have to imagine a circle with a diameter equal to the width of the front sight sitting on top of the front sight. The center of that imaginary circle should be where the bullet hits when using a 6 o'clock hold.

That is... if I interpreted that article correctly. Apparently this technique doesn't work at very close or very long ranges because the bullet is on its way up past the sights or down past the sights at those distances (just use POA=POI at those distances).

testuser · December 1, 2010, 07:18 AM

You should also try out several difference stances. I found that a modified isosceles really improved my shooting. I've tried them all nothing else works for me. Keeping my hips and shoulders square with the target was the key. Shoulders rounded, body weight forward and one leg back. When I'm in the weaver stance all I do is pull my shots to the right.

The other problem I see all the time is flinching. That's not easy to fix, but there are some tricks. One of the best is randomly placing a few snap caps in your magazines. If you're flinching, then you'll see the pistol noticeably drop, which is sometimes harder to detect under recoil.

If you're having a trigger control problem, then you'll see the sights jerk when you reach the dummy cartridge.

One thing I will say is pistol shooting doesn't have much to do with strength. I've seen very small women shoot even a .44 magnum reasonably well. It's mostly about trigger control, sight alignment, and recoil management.

TDR911 · December 1, 2010, 08:16 AM

Here is a target that might help.

Kreyzhorse · December 1, 2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Here is a target that might help.

That's a great chart. I've shot for years and still refer to it when I've had a bad day at the range.

Chances are your sights are fine and your accuracy will improve with time and form.

KurtC · December 1, 2010, 08:44 AM

The 6 o'clock hold was most often used a few generations ago when target shooting with a .45 acp. The pumpkin trajectory using 230 gr. ball ammo usually put the impact about 3 inches above point of aim at 25 yds, right in the 10x ring. This allowed the shooter to see the entire target.

It doesn't always work with higher velocity, flatter shooting cartridges unless the sights are specifically regulated for such. Many modern handguns are factory regulated for POA equals POI, so you have to obscure the bottom half of the circle target in order to get 10x hits. They work much better when shooting silhouettes, where the target is much larger.

Mr Lucky · December 1, 2010, 09:34 AM

There is no substitute for a good basic pistol training course. This article fairly well describes some basics. Learning and practicing all of the five points mentioned in this article can help you improve.

How to shoot a handgun accurately
By Massad Ayoob

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.htm

Casimer · December 1, 2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

I'm also curious about dry firing, if it will damage the firing pin on either pistol?

Nope. If you were shooting competitively and dry-firing a lot for training, I'd recommend using snap caps. But for normal use, it's not an issue. The damage concern, when dry-firing, is almost exclusively w/ 22 rimfires, because the pin hits the rim of the chamber and can damage it.

There are a few videos on youtube that cover grip and finger placement. They might be work looking at.

crazy charlie · December 1, 2010, 01:05 PM

The target that TDR911 posted says it all. If your groups are good it's probably technique or stance.

TDR911 · December 1, 2010, 01:29 PM

That target has always been a great training tool.
There is no subsititute for practise. Do dry practice with a laser mounted on the rail and turned on. Not for point of aim but to demonstrate on how your trigger control is affecting your point of impact. You will see how the laser will travel across the target as you get a firing pin release.
Finger tip placement and control is paramount at getting consistant accuracy.
I will be doing a training video soon on exactly what I am refering to.

Coltman 77 · December 1, 2010, 01:34 PM

Congratulations on your new HK kemassey. Good choice, HK makes fine handguns.

HK pistols are designed so the point of impact is right behind the front sight.

Here's a picture that may help you. Use the "Dead on/Cover up" hold.

Good luck.

kemassey · December 1, 2010, 08:35 PM

Thanks for all the excellent info. I did do some dry firing and I think I'm safe to assume that the shouldn't waver to left or right when pulling the trigger. I noticed a little movement and tried to work on it. I'll have plenty of time in the months ahead to dry fire and get it to where it doesn't move. Thanks to all who contributed so far.

Casimer · December 1, 2010, 10:11 PM

Quote:

I think I'm safe to assume that the shouldn't waver to left or right when pulling the trigger

Correct.

You want to maintain perfect sight alignment throughout.

Also keep the trigger moving, avoid the temptation to stage the trigger or slow down to realign the sights. Use consistent pressure at a deliberate rate. It doesn't have to be fast, but it should be smooth.

kevinc6639 · December 4, 2010, 03:57 PM

Everytime I read on this forum I learn new things that help me improve. My son had that problem when he started shooting my XDM 40. I noticed most of it was nerves, and grip strength. Try find a stress ball or grip excersiser at a local sports shop. When you use it, start with your whole hand, after 2 or 3 days start squeezing the ball or grip, keep your trigger finger curled as if you are holding your pistol, and try to pull your trigger finger straight back with out moving the rest of your hand. Worked for me, and you can do it at the office, train or anywhere.

November 30, 2010, 08:49 PM	#1
kemassey Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2009 Posts: 148	How to align sights on a hand gun? I'm new to handguns and am trying to figure out how to use the sights. I have an HK USP .40 and a Springfield XDM .45 that I target practice with. I'm using the nice orange and black bullseye that shows white when you hit the target. With the .40 I was shooting at the right side and hitting on the left side. With the .45 I was shooting at the bullseye and hitting on the left side. These are both factory sights that have not been messed with. I guess that I just don't know how to aim with a hand gun. Any help would be appreciated so hopefully I can get on the paper.

November 30, 2010, 09:24 PM	#4
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Are you sure its the sighting rather than your trigger pull? If you align your front sight in the middle of the rear, aiming dead bullseye and both guns are shooting to the left chances are its your shooting technique and that needs corrected. Are you shooting right handed? If so, since both your pistols are shooting to the left, maybe its due to you squeezing the gun with your whole hand when pulling the trigger rather than just moving your trigger finger. If you tighten your whole grip on the gun while pulling the trigger, more than likely when shooting right handed, you'll hit left. Practice shooting, concentrating on squeezing the trigger, moving only your trigger finger straight back and not gripping the rest of your hand/fingers tighter the more you squeeze the trigger. Also, how much of your trigger finger are you applying to the trigger? To much can pull right while to little can push left. A good tool to use for practicing trigger control is a laser sight. When dryfire practicing, a cheap pencil type laser light taped to the muzzle will show you exactly how your barrel is dancing as you squeeze the trigger. Especially aimed at a wall in a dark room. Of course, naturally doublecheck and make sure your gun is unloaded. Last edited by shortwave; November 30, 2010 at 09:30 PM.

December 1, 2010, 07:18 AM	#9
testuser Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2010 Posts: 495	You should also try out several difference stances. I found that a modified isosceles really improved my shooting. I've tried them all nothing else works for me. Keeping my hips and shoulders square with the target was the key. Shoulders rounded, body weight forward and one leg back. When I'm in the weaver stance all I do is pull my shots to the right. The other problem I see all the time is flinching. That's not easy to fix, but there are some tricks. One of the best is randomly placing a few snap caps in your magazines. If you're flinching, then you'll see the pistol noticeably drop, which is sometimes harder to detect under recoil. If you're having a trigger control problem, then you'll see the sights jerk when you reach the dummy cartridge. One thing I will say is pistol shooting doesn't have much to do with strength. I've seen very small women shoot even a .44 magnum reasonably well. It's mostly about trigger control, sight alignment, and recoil management. Last edited by testuser; December 1, 2010 at 07:27 AM.

December 4, 2010, 03:57 PM	#20
kevinc6639 Junior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Posts: 5	Still learning new things Everytime I read on this forum I learn new things that help me improve. My son had that problem when he started shooting my XDM 40. I noticed most of it was nerves, and grip strength. Try find a stress ball or grip excersiser at a local sports shop. When you use it, start with your whole hand, after 2 or 3 days start squeezing the ball or grip, keep your trigger finger curled as if you are holding your pistol, and try to pull your trigger finger straight back with out moving the rest of your hand. Worked for me, and you can do it at the office, train or anywhere.

November 30, 2010, 09:04 PM	#2
KurtC Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Posts: 476	This diagram shows how to align the various types of sights that are on handguns and rifles, using a 6 o'clock hold on circle target.

November 30, 2010, 09:07 PM	#3
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	You're probably aiming correctly, but throwing the shot w/ your execution. This is what your sight alignment should look like. Your problem may be related to the placement of your trigger finger. If so, dry firing is a good way to diagnose this problem, and correct for it.

November 30, 2010, 09:33 PM	#5
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Kurtc. Thanks for the pic. I can use that too,Glad i jumped into this post.

November 30, 2010, 09:51 PM	#6
SauerGrapes Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: S.E.PA. Posts: 920	Might I suggest an NRA basic pistol course? If you shoot at a gun club, maybe you can get some help from an experienced shooter. If your just starting out with pistols, an instructor can be a big help to get you going in the right direction. NRA guy or just a verteran pistol shooter. I shot pistol for about a year before I learned a lot of what I was doing was counterproductive.

November 30, 2010, 10:57 PM	#7
kemassey Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2009 Posts: 148	Thanks for all the good replys. I do shoot right handed. I try to get just enough finger to cover the trigger and not overlap to much. I think I have been doing all the above mentioned things that cause problems. I have been dry firing it. I noticed sometimes that when I pulled the trigger the gun would move to the side. I think most of the problems are caused by me. I'm also curious about dry firing, if it will damage the firing pin on either pistol? Also thanks for illustrations. If it warms up will get out and practice more.

December 1, 2010, 03:52 AM	#8
iMagUdspEllr Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2009 Posts: 477	I was wondering about this 6 o'clock hold thing for a while. I saw your thread and I did some more digging about it. I found this link: http://www.fuzzylimey.net/oddsnends/...ml#anchor75121 It explains how 6 o'clock hold really works. It isn't just a matter of putting the target on top of the sights. Apparently you have to imagine a circle with a diameter equal to the width of the front sight sitting on top of the front sight. The center of that imaginary circle should be where the bullet hits when using a 6 o'clock hold. That is... if I interpreted that article correctly. Apparently this technique doesn't work at very close or very long ranges because the bullet is on its way up past the sights or down past the sights at those distances (just use POA=POI at those distances).

December 1, 2010, 08:16 AM	#10
TDR911 Member Join Date: April 29, 2008 Location: Punta Gorda Florida Posts: 43	Here is a target that might help.

December 1, 2010, 08:44 AM	#12
KurtC Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Posts: 476	The 6 o'clock hold was most often used a few generations ago when target shooting with a .45 acp. The pumpkin trajectory using 230 gr. ball ammo usually put the impact about 3 inches above point of aim at 25 yds, right in the 10x ring. This allowed the shooter to see the entire target. It doesn't always work with higher velocity, flatter shooting cartridges unless the sights are specifically regulated for such. Many modern handguns are factory regulated for POA equals POI, so you have to obscure the bottom half of the circle target in order to get 10x hits. They work much better when shooting silhouettes, where the target is much larger.

December 1, 2010, 09:34 AM	#13
Mr Lucky Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 195	There is no substitute for a good basic pistol training course. This article fairly well describes some basics. Learning and practicing all of the five points mentioned in this article can help you improve. How to shoot a handgun accurately By Massad Ayoob http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.htm

December 1, 2010, 01:05 PM	#15
crazy charlie Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: PA Posts: 229	The target that TDR911 posted says it all. If your groups are good it's probably technique or stance.

December 1, 2010, 01:29 PM	#16
TDR911 Member Join Date: April 29, 2008 Location: Punta Gorda Florida Posts: 43	That target has always been a great training tool. There is no subsititute for practise. Do dry practice with a laser mounted on the rail and turned on. Not for point of aim but to demonstrate on how your trigger control is affecting your point of impact. You will see how the laser will travel across the target as you get a firing pin release. Finger tip placement and control is paramount at getting consistant accuracy. I will be doing a training video soon on exactly what I am refering to.

December 1, 2010, 01:34 PM	#17
Coltman 77 Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 1,244	Congratulations on your new HK kemassey. Good choice, HK makes fine handguns. HK pistols are designed so the point of impact is right behind the front sight. Here's a picture that may help you. Use the "Dead on/Cover up" hold. Good luck.

December 1, 2010, 08:35 PM	#18
kemassey Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2009 Posts: 148	Thanks for all the excellent info. I did do some dry firing and I think I'm safe to assume that the shouldn't waver to left or right when pulling the trigger. I noticed a little movement and tried to work on it. I'll have plenty of time in the months ahead to dry fire and get it to where it doesn't move. Thanks to all who contributed so far.