Holster design for comment...

[Jim March]

This is about a holster design that can be adapted to other full size guns from basically Glock 19, 4" barrel DA wheelgun, 5" barrel 1911 on up.

I've posted about my "weird rig for a weird gun" before - basically a semi-western-style critter that grabs the belt with a unique buckle setup. There's two problems with it: the basic quality isn't yet where I want it to be due largely to lack of tooling (typical newbie thing probably) and worse, I didn't get the "tilt" designed in quite the way it turns out I need it. I'm now in the second iteration of this design; in the first I had tried to get it adjustable between two different "tilt angles", one for a strongside forward-tilt and one crossdraw back tilt. This first gen was a failure strongside because it was just too high. Now with the second, I've got a problem whereby the one locked-in tilt angle isn't quite right.

Here's the "mark 1":



By switching the "tilt strap" end closest to the camera between the upper and lower diamond conchos with a screwdriver, the tilt angle could be set either of two ways. But again, the lower tilt location (for a strongside forward tilt "FBI style") was a failure due to the height being just too high. In crossdraw however it worked very well. So I rebuilt it as a crossdraw-only in the mk2:



This was better but still problematic. Still some QC issues although at least I got a good liner in there, and the tilt angle was still fractionally off.

So I pondered a bit, looking for a way to get serious about "tilt adjustments"...and I think I've got it.



Step one is just a simple fold of leather with two stitch lines, one to the edge and one formed to the gun.

Step two sews small metal rings in a line facing "outwards", sewn to both the inner layer of leather (probably lined under that) and to each other.

Step three adds a top-plate that also encircles the throat, covering the two lines of rings yet allowing access to them from the sides. This "top plate" also hides the "interior sew line" as seen in picture 1, and can contain decorative elements as desired.

Step 4 adds cord to form the belt loops that buckle across the top, using a tapered leather strap through two metal rings. The cord can be paracord 550 or any decent equivalent, and works the same way the strap arrangement works on my "mark 1" and "mark 2" variants photographed.

The inset picture bottom-right shows how each cord side links to one of the holster's rings; these cords can be taken off at any time and re-connected elsewhere, allowing near-infinite adjustment of both ride height and tilt angle.

If I'm right, this critter ought to have at least a vaguely "old west" look to it, yet have the kind of tilt adjustments normally seen on junk like a Blackhawk Serpa yet hug the belt and body MUCH closer in a real leather holster.

Licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 license:

creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/

Read: feel free to make one for personal use, credit me if you share the design and drop me a line for low-cost commercial licensing fees.

I hope to have the time to build this for real next week, meanwhile all comments on the design are welcome.

[ClayInTx]

I don’t see enough gun retention to suit me and I like to have the trigger more enclosed. Of course this is apparently for something other than a normal carry, I suppose.

[Jim March]

First, I guarantee you this can't be ripped off the belt. Paracord 550 is ridiculously tough. I've been carrying with the mk1 and then mk2 with my 42oz gun for well over three months now and since I came up with the tapered cinch strap I've had zero slippage. It's far more secure on the belt than any plastic rig and some kydex rigs.

The versions I do for DA trigger revolvers and any autopistol cover the triggerguard. Here are the two rigs I've made for free so far for friends:



Ruger P85-Mk2, basically a full-size "wondernine" class auto, DA/SA, safety/decocker combo means first shot has to be DA, 4" barrel. Note how high up this is: the whole triggerguard is above the beltline.



And this is a 3" barrel S&W 66-3, a really sweet gun. That said, this design I'm working on appears best suited for big guns and I probably won't do another piece this small again.

I'm not near able to do a "pro grade" rig yet, this is still "alpha testing". But with some better tools and what I'm learning at http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showforum=29 I can see turning semi-pro at some point, specializing in rigs for bigger CCW pieces.

The open-triggerguard option is something I would ONLY do on an SA revolver that has a transfer-bar safety such as a Ruger, Beretta or Taurus Gaucho. And I'd cover the triggerguard as an option for those that would want it.

The part I hope to standardize across all types is this "totally flexible mounting system" as seen in the drawing.

[Daryl]

Hi Jim,

Having worn various holsters almost constantly over a number of years, I see one problem with the design for the "tilt" adjustments.

If I'm seeing the diagram correctly, you have the "tilt adjustment" based on the connection to the holster under the belt. In reality, and especially with a heavy handgun, the holster is going to "hang" from above.

And while I realize that you're "lashing" the holster to the belt with some level of tightness, leather stretches, and adjusts itself over time to whatever force and time causes it to become.

My suggestion would be to run the straps through the holster above the belt, and have the buckle end underneath.

Unless I'm reading your diagram wrong, which is entirely possible.



Daryl

[Jim March]

Leather stretch isn't an issue here. Each time you put the holster on you cinch it down fresh. Yes, over a matter of months it'll stretch a bit but that doesn't matter because it ain't gonna stretch enough in a day to worry about.

Trust me, it's cinched down so tight, you cannot take the belt off without first taking the holster off. Well...use enough grease and you *might* get the belt off with the holster cinched down!

Because the buckle is an "infinite position" type (doesn't rely on a pin going through holes) you can get exactly as much tension as you need.

Trust me, even carrying a gun as heavy as mine (damn near a worst-case scenario) it doesn't develop any "flop" during the day.

[Standing Wolf]

Seems a trifle thick, and there appears to be a fair amount of stuff held with loops.

Thick isn't necessarily a bad thing; speaking strictly as a thickening old guy, however, it's not necessarily a good thing, either.

Loose stuff looks like a good way to catch things; maybe it really isn't. I do like guns carried high, and can assure you adjustable angles aren't just good, but necessary.

Looking at your holsters makes me wish I were still handy enough to sit down with pieces of leather. I think you're on a worthy path.

[Jim March]

Does this look "thick"?



Look, I don't mean to brag, but this whole "grab the belt and crank down" process makes this sucker HUG like nothing else I've ever seen. Some pancake types come close, but...wow, not like this.

One place I got the idea from was:

http://www.tedblockerholsters.com/pr...D157928572DFB9



It's an old Bill Grover design. Mine is broadly similar, except instead of using a fixed piece of leather I'm using a compression strap, almost a "winch", to crank down on the belt and "grab".

If I can combine that with half a bajillion possible mount point combinations via the two rows of "mount rings" from the drawing...oh yeah . Assuming it works.

Oh yeah. Did you notice that it auto-adjusts for belt thickness? The same rig supports belt widths anywhere from 1" to 3" no problem.

[Jim March]

If it's not clear yet: my funky tube sight *forced* me to get into custom leatherwork. This gun won't fit any other leather, that's for damnsure.

[ClayInTx]

The one you’re demonstrating by wearing looks ideal for a cross-draw. It’s high so the barrel doesn’t make a jacket flare out. The trigger is covered.

As for thick; the inside leather needs to be a bit thick to aid in keeping the gun upright.

Now it’s looking good.

Keep us posted, please. I believe you’re onto something here.

Edit: BTW, not such wide pictures, please. I have to stretch those across my second screen.

[Jim March]

Ah. Sorry.

The one you like is, I assume, the one for the Ruger 9mm auto?

Yeah, that came out nice. I think the tilt angle is just right.

The new attachment system I've sketched out would be adapted straight to that body...in other words, same triggerguard coverage, and the same tilt angle COULD be achieved as an option, no problem. But with the multi-ring-attach setup, it could be shifted around to strongside, forward tilt and lower carry, or any number of other setups. More horizontal, more vertical, even roll it around to strongside kidney or SOB if you wanted to (not that I like SOB!).

I'm starting to thing that instead of "multiple rings" I should take strips of stainless steel, drill holes all the way down the strips, polish 'em smooth and install each as a unit. That way anchoring off of one hole won't slowly stretch it. Bulk won't be any different, looks won't be different. It'll just be more stretch-resistant. Might do brass strips if I can find any thick enough.

[kraigwy]

An old retired State Trooper made this one for me upon my retirement from APD.

That was 16 years ago today, March 8th 1994.

[Jim March]

Interesting. The only other stone-inlay holster I've ever seen.

I assumed it had been done before .

[aarondhgraham]

First I hafta get this off of my chest,,,

Jim, that is perhaps the most Bu**-Ugly rig I have ever laid eyes on,,,
But for pure functionality I am in absolute awe of your creativity.

~ducking and running for cover now~

When you get the pattern perfected, send it to me,,,
I'll be proud to tool you up a pretty version of your very unique rig.

I wonder if a series of holes that your belt thong could pass through might control the angle of carry for your holster.

I'm not sure if I can describe it but I'll try.

Let's say that on the front of your holster (thick part of the bend),,,
You sew (or rivet) a vertical strip that creates two loops to run the thing through.

That keeps it from sliding up or down the front face of the holster,,,
Essentially locking that part in one place.

Now you punch a series of holes along the length of the back seam,,,
This would allow you to choose which holes to run the thong through,,,
Thereby allowing you to have multiple angles of carry.

Choose two holes near the middle for a straight up and down carry angle.
Choose two holes nearer the top of the seam for a cross-draw angle.
Choose two holes nearer the bottom for a forward tilt carry angle.

Make the holes on the back seam large enough so the thong slips easily,,,
The point of this is to lock them in a chosen position to control the angle of carry.
I would not want to interfere with your "cinch tight" system.

Hey!
I think I just named your rig,,,

Introducing the revolutionary Cinch-Tite by Jim March

I'm going to attempt to upload a quick sketch of my idea.


See how the thongs can't move on the front edge,,,
But are infinitely adjustable on the rear.

Whaddaya think my friend?

[Jim March]

Well that's more or less where I was headed on the very first one - I had the choice of two positions instead of a more gradual range on one edge, and locked into the other.

Your rig is similar in that the tilt angle can be adjusted (with more positions than mine) but you can't adjust basic ride height. To do that you have to adjust both sides. See, for crossdraw you want to go absolutely as high up as possible. This puts the gun at a place easier to get to, makes it easier to sit down without it jabbing into your hip and makes it easy to conceal in a standard length short jacket. These are all cool things, and I'm not aware of ANY rig that can get as towering high as mine. The reason I can get that high is the ability to crank it down onto the belt.

But if you go that high strongside, it's a total fail. It's worthless behind the strongside hip ("4:00 hold") and directly strongside you have to do the funky chicken to draw. It's beyond ridiculous.

So, the only way to get a towering-high crossdraw and a medium-height-or-lower strongside is to have max adjustability both sides. Nothing else will cut it.

I have some better tooling now, esp. smaller dremel bits to do small clean holes no bigger than are needed and real needles to do stitching instead of lacing. So the next one is going to look better.

I'm considering solid strips of either stainless or brass instead of individual rings, to spread the "stretch stress" over many more stitches and leather. Most people will set it up how they like it and leave it that way...I can see it getting distorted over time.

I might even do a solid strip of metal across the front covered in leather as shown, with the holes each side, paint the metal and then cover it with the outer leather piece as shown in the drawing. The kicker there is, I could drill'n'carve patterned holes through that sheet of leather that would show the painted metal underneath...say, paint the metal red, then carve cougar pawtracks with claws through the leather cover sheet so that the pawtracks appear red? Offer different tracks/colors as options?

I don't think I'd do stone inlay like on mine for anybody else. Too much risk of it breaking. If it happens to me, no problem, I'll just rebuild it .

---

Ummm...look, so far the best variant is the one for the Ruger autopistol. Is THAT one all that ugly?

Oh yeah. I didn't show you what I carry on the OTHER side. My own invention. I give you "the plate of stuff":



Total one-off prototype, just for grins...ammo is up high so that if my jacket rides up over it, the flashlight and multipliers show up first. Ammo is in Bianchi speed strips for 357, each held in place with a small kydex "wedge" that's hard to see in the shadows above each speed strip. I'm trying to work out a better bullet loop system than this mess, one with only one layer of leather between bullets so that it's speed-strip compatible.

[Jim March]

One more thing: my first ever mag holster, for that Ruger 9mm. Like the gun, I wanted a system that could be taken on and off the belt without unbelting...the owner needs to go through job-related metal detectors a lot. So...





Doubles as a keychain-mount .

[aarondhgraham]

But there's no reason the "Loops" on the front edge couldn't be multiple as well as on the back.

That way you could have infinite adjustment for any carry angle at any height above the belt.

You have to be very careful when sandwiching metal between layers of leather,,,
Stainless steel would be the only workable choice if you were to do cut-outs,,,
Any other metal will eventually rust or corrode and look ugly.

Lots of holster makers sandwich a thin layer of metal between the layers of leather for quick-draw holsters,,,
I believe it was Arvo Ojala (spelling?) who first patented that design method,,,
He used galvanized sheet metal because it doesn't show.

Saddle makers use galvanized metal to build up the seat curve between the tree and the leather,,,
It almost always goes all rusty after years of exposure.

Back when I was doing a lot of medieval leather,,,
I did a lot of that cut-out work with a lining of colored suede leather,,,
Or even exotic leather like eel, manta ray, snake skin, or even frog skin.

Some of that stuff came out very pretty.

I'm still waiting on your opinion of the proposed name for your rig,,,

[Jim March]

Heh. I dunno, I'm not thinking names right now.

Question though...you think a respectably thick sheet of brass might rust?



They make this neat "plasticoat" stuff I can get ahold of...dip or spray. Probably go dip. Comes in a nice bright "arterial red" among others. I was thinking I could dip the sheet of brass in that, then once dry remove it from the areas where the exposed holes would be, leave it across the middle. That would totally protect it between the leather layers plus leave a color that would show up in the carvings.

But...would it rust (well, verdigris I guess)?

[Jim March]

Aarond, would your setup be able to come on and off the belt without taking the belt off? I can't tell from your description/pics.

[aarondhgraham]

That would be a disadvantage to running the thong through loops/holes on the holster bucket itself.

Gain angle control/Lose easy on and off,,,
Everything is a two-edged sword,,,
Gain a feature/lose a feature.

Lemme put a bit of thought into this matter.

[Jim March]

What I've got in the drawing gains angle control while keeping on/off.

And not just on/off: I also keep the "cinch down" feature. Until you've used that, you have NO idea how cool it is. Sucks it right in there, and is the secret to getting such a towering-high ride. Up to 80% or more of the gun's weight is above the beltline, that's freakin' unheard of. Only way to do it is with fairly extreme "hugging" abilities.

[aarondhgraham]

Using the holes for adjustment would still allow for the Cinch-Tite feature,,,
It would just not allow for EZ-OFF feature.

You know this is going to cost me some leather,,,
I was sketching out some ideas last night.

I think I can keep EZ-OFF and still adjust the angle of carry.

[FreakGasolineFight]

I like it, though I wonder how retention would be on a semi-auto.

[Jim March]

Retention is pretty good because of the crank-down feature.

[FreakGasolineFight]

Thinking of marketing that design? I love hand-made things as opposed to things cranked out on production lines myself, and I'd definitely be interested in a holster that could sit that high. I could cover that thing right up with a medium-sized hoodie sweater.

[Jim March]

Well step one is to get something more professional worked out - better stitching in recessed grooves, better edging, etc.

Once I have a final pro-grade design, next step is to get some blue-guns as molds. Market targets will be relatively big stuff - Beretta '92, 5" 1911, Glock 17, 4" L-frame S&W, 4" GP100.

I've also been pondering getting in bed with a local gun shop in Tucson, become their in-house holstermaker of sorts, use their inventory for molds, take orders there.

See, one thing about this class of rig is that it's perfect for AZ's legal and social gun climate. We don't have the Texas problem of "flashing equals lawbreaking" driving deeper concealment. "Mostly concealed" is OK here, in fact it's probably an optimal balance between fast access and "don't scare the sheeple" because they sheeple really don't look all that hard.