Accuracy/reliability of DPMS AR in 7.62x39?

Snakum · August 26, 2009, 02:48 PM

I love the 7.62x39 round due to its cost for general plinking and I even like the soft points for hunting deer and feral hogs. I have a couple of AKs already and so I have a lot of ammo lying around, both HP and SP. I'd like another AR rifle and so I'm thinking a DPMS in 7.62x39 might be interesting. With good ammo - Winchester or Remington 125gn SP - I can shoot two to three inch groups with my scoped AKMs if I allow the barrel to cool in between strings, and this is fine for deer and pig. But I'm thinking that with AR accuracy I could easily hit groundhogs out to 200+ yards with this round, and deer, hogs, turkey, and chucks is all I hunt with. So I'd have all my hunting, plinking, and competition needs covered with this one round. My questions, then:

* What's the accuracy on the DPMS in the Russian cartridge? I know DPMS 5.56 ARs will usually shoot MOA with good ammo. Wonder what I'll gain with the Russian round, over my AKs?

* Has anyone had bolt/reliability issues with the 7.62x39 in a DPMS gun? I seem to remember other brands of 7.62x39 ARs had issues with reliability. DPMS is a pretty good company with a good QA rep, anyone heard of problems in the x39 with their ARs?

Thanks for any help and/or suggestions.

T.A.Sharps · August 26, 2009, 02:55 PM

I wondered the same thing.

I would think that as a rifle the AR would be more accurate. But as a cartridge the 7.62x39 has not been as developed.

I've seen highspeed camera footage of an AK shooting, and there is so much metal flying and clunking all over during the action the barrel whips like crazy.

I imagine though the ammo will be the limiting factor unless you hand load.

tkcomer · August 26, 2009, 04:51 PM

While I can't vouch for the DPMS gun, this is what my Model 1 upper is doing with some com bloc ammo and a few reloads I threw together: http://www.pixagogo.com/4825444121 Click on a pic to make it bigger, then click on original at the top to blow that up. No attempt has been made to adjust the scope. After a few more test rounds, I'll dial it in. Mine is reliable with the MGI bolt and C-Products 10 round mags.

ranger dave · August 26, 2009, 05:48 PM

you dont save a thing with it because you cant fire millspec. ammo in it the bore is .308 and most cheap ammo is .311 bullets witch trust me will eat the bore ( i did it to a mini 30 a few years back)

Lloyd Smale · August 27, 2009, 06:56 AM

ive got a bushmaster in 762x39 on order and would like to know myself. I got it because if have 10 cases of wolf ammo i got cheap and like the idea of one ar i can rattle away with and not have to pick up brass and the fact that with the shortage on loading components in the country right now i can still shoot it realitively cheaply. As to 310 bullet in a mini 30. Mine has probably ate 10000 rounds of wolf ammo so far and a good quanity of reloads and surplus ammo and the bore is just fine. my guess is that you ran into some corrosive primed ammo and thats what ruined your bore not the bullets. Im not on to over clean a gun but with wolf or most other surplus 762x39 ammo you should clean the gun after every session.

tkcomer · August 27, 2009, 08:55 AM

Once again, I can't comment on the DPMS gun, but the Model 1 upper I have has a .310 bore. I haven't tried any of the "animal" brands, but it shoots the lacquer coated and copper washed steel cased mil surp just fine. I wish I could FIND a .308 bore barrel for the AR. Right now, to get that, you have to go the high dollar custom route.

srt 10 jimbo · August 27, 2009, 10:25 AM

Have a DPMS- M4, but I dont shoot Russian ammo out of it. Just Remington UMC. I guess I would try the Russian Golden Bear If I see some around.

john in jax · August 27, 2009, 04:56 PM

I came real close to buying a Oly Arms 7.62x39 AR a year or so ago. The ones they were turning out shot very well. The 7.62x39 round is capable of much better accuracy than your std. run-of-the-mill AK will allow it.

MMcfpd · August 27, 2009, 08:00 PM

The 7.62x39mm AR-15s are fun guns; I sold my AK after having one for a bit. There's a lot of information here: 7.62x39mm AR-15 configurations.

DnPRK · August 27, 2009, 11:23 PM

Some ARs in 7.62x39 tend to break bolt lugs. It seems the lugs adjacent to the extractor cutout are weakened and fail due to the greater recoil and body taper of the 7.62x39 cartridge. Be prepared for that.

MMcfpd · August 28, 2009, 12:04 AM

7.62x39 ARs have had some history of breaking bolts. And they do sometimes have trouble lighting off the hard primered eastern european steel case ammo such as Wolf.

MGI makes an enhanced bolt and firing pin combo designed to fire the hard primered stuff; the setup has an enlarged firing pin hole in the bolt face and extended protrusion of the firing pin:

It works, but mine's extractor broke at ~1150 rounds and replacement parts have proven impossible to get.

Some folks have removed material from the firing pin collar to allow a deeper primer strike:

I'm now using what seems to be the endurance champ, LMT's 7.62x39 bolt:

It has abbreviated lugs on the extractor and opposite to distribute loading such that stress is reduced on the lugs that commonly break:

With that bolt and a Geissele SSA trigger, my 14.5" 7.62x39 will fire most steel case ammo.

Ignition Override · August 28, 2009, 02:51 AM

A guy at "TheHighRoad" has posted photos of a deer which he killed with an AR-platform rifle in 7.62x39.

He states that the deer was over 200 yards and his nickname is "Krochus".
It is under "THR": "Rifles", and page one under the topic "How many people...military...".

srt 10 jimbo · August 28, 2009, 11:32 AM

Wonder If I can get a 7.62 upper for my DPMS. I have an AK-47 and an SKS in 7.62x39. be easier getting one ammo Instead of .223 and 7.62x39.

Snakum · August 28, 2009, 12:54 PM

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. The info on the bolts was especially welcomed, as that was my primary concern. I have two AKs and with one of them (CAI WASR 10/63) I can get 3 MOA up to 200 yards (scoped and benched) with US made soft point ammo, while the other (plain CAI WASR 10) exhibits the usual AK accuracy at about 5-6 MOA at 100 yards, and around 8 MOA 200 even carefully benched. I dunno if an AR would group tighter, but I expect it would. 2 - 3 MOA is going to be fine for hunting white tails at the ranges I'll be working, and certainly good enough for defense work. But I think I'd like to have an AR lower to play with various uppers, including .308, and right now I have a lot of x39 ammo. Hence, thinking about a x39 AR build. Thanks guys!

August 26, 2009, 02:48 PM	#1
Snakum Member Join Date: August 26, 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 84	Accuracy/reliability of DPMS AR in 7.62x39? I love the 7.62x39 round due to its cost for general plinking and I even like the soft points for hunting deer and feral hogs. I have a couple of AKs already and so I have a lot of ammo lying around, both HP and SP. I'd like another AR rifle and so I'm thinking a DPMS in 7.62x39 might be interesting. With good ammo - Winchester or Remington 125gn SP - I can shoot two to three inch groups with my scoped AKMs if I allow the barrel to cool in between strings, and this is fine for deer and pig. But I'm thinking that with AR accuracy I could easily hit groundhogs out to 200+ yards with this round, and deer, hogs, turkey, and chucks is all I hunt with. So I'd have all my hunting, plinking, and competition needs covered with this one round. My questions, then: * What's the accuracy on the DPMS in the Russian cartridge? I know DPMS 5.56 ARs will usually shoot MOA with good ammo. Wonder what I'll gain with the Russian round, over my AKs? * Has anyone had bolt/reliability issues with the 7.62x39 in a DPMS gun? I seem to remember other brands of 7.62x39 ARs had issues with reliability. DPMS is a pretty good company with a good QA rep, anyone heard of problems in the x39 with their ARs? Thanks for any help and/or suggestions.

August 26, 2009, 05:48 PM	#4
ranger dave Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2005 Posts: 485	7.62x39 you dont save a thing with it because you cant fire millspec. ammo in it the bore is .308 and most cheap ammo is .311 bullets witch trust me will eat the bore ( i did it to a mini 30 a few years back)

August 28, 2009, 12:04 AM	#11
MMcfpd Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2006 Location: Houston, TX USA Posts: 384	7.62x39 ARs have had some history of breaking bolts. And they do sometimes have trouble lighting off the hard primered eastern european steel case ammo such as Wolf. MGI makes an enhanced bolt and firing pin combo designed to fire the hard primered stuff; the setup has an enlarged firing pin hole in the bolt face and extended protrusion of the firing pin: It works, but mine's extractor broke at ~1150 rounds and replacement parts have proven impossible to get. Some folks have removed material from the firing pin collar to allow a deeper primer strike: I'm now using what seems to be the endurance champ, LMT's 7.62x39 bolt: It has abbreviated lugs on the extractor and opposite to distribute loading such that stress is reduced on the lugs that commonly break: With that bolt and a Geissele SSA trigger, my 14.5" 7.62x39 will fire most steel case ammo. Last edited by MMcfpd; August 28, 2009 at 12:34 AM.

August 28, 2009, 02:51 AM	#12
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,899	A guy at "TheHighRoad" has posted photos of a deer which he killed with an AR-platform rifle in 7.62x39. He states that the deer was over 200 yards and his nickname is "Krochus". It is under "THR": "Rifles", and page one under the topic "How many people...military...". Last edited by Ignition Override; August 28, 2009 at 03:35 AM.

August 26, 2009, 02:55 PM	#2
T.A.Sharps Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2007 Posts: 675	I wondered the same thing. I would think that as a rifle the AR would be more accurate. But as a cartridge the 7.62x39 has not been as developed. I've seen highspeed camera footage of an AK shooting, and there is so much metal flying and clunking all over during the action the barrel whips like crazy. I imagine though the ammo will be the limiting factor unless you hand load.

August 26, 2009, 04:51 PM	#3
tkcomer Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Maysville, KY Posts: 200	While I can't vouch for the DPMS gun, this is what my Model 1 upper is doing with some com bloc ammo and a few reloads I threw together: http://www.pixagogo.com/4825444121 Click on a pic to make it bigger, then click on original at the top to blow that up. No attempt has been made to adjust the scope. After a few more test rounds, I'll dial it in. Mine is reliable with the MGI bolt and C-Products 10 round mags.

August 27, 2009, 06:56 AM	#5
Lloyd Smale Junior member Join Date: February 11, 2005 Posts: 822	ive got a bushmaster in 762x39 on order and would like to know myself. I got it because if have 10 cases of wolf ammo i got cheap and like the idea of one ar i can rattle away with and not have to pick up brass and the fact that with the shortage on loading components in the country right now i can still shoot it realitively cheaply. As to 310 bullet in a mini 30. Mine has probably ate 10000 rounds of wolf ammo so far and a good quanity of reloads and surplus ammo and the bore is just fine. my guess is that you ran into some corrosive primed ammo and thats what ruined your bore not the bullets. Im not on to over clean a gun but with wolf or most other surplus 762x39 ammo you should clean the gun after every session.

August 27, 2009, 08:55 AM	#6
tkcomer Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Maysville, KY Posts: 200	Once again, I can't comment on the DPMS gun, but the Model 1 upper I have has a .310 bore. I haven't tried any of the "animal" brands, but it shoots the lacquer coated and copper washed steel cased mil surp just fine. I wish I could FIND a .308 bore barrel for the AR. Right now, to get that, you have to go the high dollar custom route.

August 27, 2009, 10:25 AM	#7
srt 10 jimbo Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 955	Have a DPMS- M4, but I dont shoot Russian ammo out of it. Just Remington UMC. I guess I would try the Russian Golden Bear If I see some around.

August 27, 2009, 04:56 PM	#8
john in jax Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2005 Posts: 1,177	I came real close to buying a Oly Arms 7.62x39 AR a year or so ago. The ones they were turning out shot very well. The 7.62x39 round is capable of much better accuracy than your std. run-of-the-mill AK will allow it.

August 27, 2009, 08:00 PM	#9
MMcfpd Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2006 Location: Houston, TX USA Posts: 384	The 7.62x39mm AR-15s are fun guns; I sold my AK after having one for a bit. There's a lot of information here: 7.62x39mm AR-15 configurations.

August 27, 2009, 11:23 PM	#10
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Some ARs in 7.62x39 tend to break bolt lugs. It seems the lugs adjacent to the extractor cutout are weakened and fail due to the greater recoil and body taper of the 7.62x39 cartridge. Be prepared for that.

August 28, 2009, 11:32 AM	#13
srt 10 jimbo Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 955	Wonder If I can get a 7.62 upper for my DPMS. I have an AK-47 and an SKS in 7.62x39. be easier getting one ammo Instead of .223 and 7.62x39.

August 28, 2009, 12:54 PM	#14
Snakum Member Join Date: August 26, 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 84	Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. The info on the bolts was especially welcomed, as that was my primary concern. I have two AKs and with one of them (CAI WASR 10/63) I can get 3 MOA up to 200 yards (scoped and benched) with US made soft point ammo, while the other (plain CAI WASR 10) exhibits the usual AK accuracy at about 5-6 MOA at 100 yards, and around 8 MOA 200 even carefully benched. I dunno if an AR would group tighter, but I expect it would. 2 - 3 MOA is going to be fine for hunting white tails at the ranges I'll be working, and certainly good enough for defense work. But I think I'd like to have an AR lower to play with various uppers, including .308, and right now I have a lot of x39 ammo. Hence, thinking about a x39 AR build. Thanks guys!