.38 Super Auto in a .38 Spl +P revolver?

DoRnbush · January 31, 2009, 10:57 PM

I just recently attended a gunshow and in the heat of things picked up two boxes of .38 Super Auto rounds instead of .38 Special +P. I have two S&W revolvers, a new 642 .38 Spl +P and a really old .357 snub-nose that belonged to my father which I shoot .38 Spl out of all the time. I know that I cannot use .38 Super Auto in a standard .38 Special but can I use it in my current +P rated revolvers? Or am I just stupid for asking if I can shoot semi-auto rounds out of a revolver?

Thanks for the insight.

Sevens · January 31, 2009, 11:12 PM

It's a pretty bad idea. Given the pressure that .38 Super runs at, a .357 Magnum revolver can handle the pressure but a revolver rated for .38 Spl or even .38 Spl +P isn't meant for those pressures. Also, it's a rimless round that's going to want to slide deep in the chamber and won't reliably fire in any case. If/when you do get it to fire, the bullet is smaller than expected in any .38/.357 revolver, so accuracy will likely be really bad and the cases will likely split as they don't fit properly.

Given that the .38 Super ammo was likely more expensive than what you meant to find, you might have luck swapping them with someone who needs them. Problem is that it's not what you'd call a common caliber, so finding someone who needs them won't be easy.

You aren't stupid for asking-- but it would be pretty stupid to do it without asking and damage yourself or one of your firearms.

But there is really nothing you'll gain from shooting them, other than a loud "bang" if you are able to detonate 'em.

mnhntr · January 31, 2009, 11:17 PM

post an add in the classifieds to swap for ammo you can use.

Webleymkv · January 31, 2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Also, it's a rimless round that's going to want to slide deep in the chamber and won't reliably fire in any case.

Actually, the .38 Super is a semi-rimmed case just like the .32 ACP so given a revolver with tight enough chambers it could feasibly headspace correctly. However, due to it's smallish rim, extraction problems would be likely. Given the higher pressures and incorrect bullet and case diameters it's still a very bad idea to try to shoot it in a .38 +P revolver.

zxcvbob · January 31, 2009, 11:36 PM

It shouldn't chamber in a .38 Special or a .357 magnum -- the case is too fat. However (this is scary) it might chamber just fine in an old top-break .38 S&W

Hopefully it would only go in .775" and stop.

goodspeed(TPF) · January 31, 2009, 11:38 PM

NOOOOOOO!!!!!

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

and

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Bill DeShivs · February 1, 2009, 12:32 AM

.38 Super will chamber, and extract in .38 Special/.357 revolvers.
You shouldn't shoot it in them though!

LightningJoe · February 1, 2009, 11:32 AM

Your gun has the name of cartridge stamped into it somewhere. Use that cartridge as a general rule. If you are an expert, then you may know better. If you're asking about it on the Internet, you're not an expert. If you're taking the advice of anonymous people on the Internet, well...

Sevens · February 1, 2009, 01:43 PM

I love the comments about taking advice from anonymous people on the internet...

What is the purpose of these forums?

Which is better, soliciting advice from good, normal people who've spent many years in the hobby and lifestyle, and taking all of those opinions and hoping to learn from it and make a decision-- or simply do something with no thought whatsoever?

It's not like some random goof has just asked us if it's okay to drink gasoline and light his farts here. People are basically good. Take in all the opinions, sort them out and try to apply some of it to your situation. That's a helluva lot different than picking out one post from an armchair internet ninja who might suggest he go out and do something that's obviously stupid or illegal or both.

Sheesh. Over the years I've learned a heap of invaluable info on firearms, reloading, concealed carry, motorcycles, home repair and a hundred other topics. All from reading and asking questions of normal GOOD people on the internet.

**Mike Irwin** · February 1, 2009, 01:51 PM

I've shot .38 Super out of a .357 before. Worked just fine, but the rims very readily slip under the extractor star, tying things up.

Nominal base diameter on a .38 Super is .383, which is a bit larger than the listed nominal base diameter on a .357.

But I had no problems dropping them into the chambers on my Model 19.

That said...

I agree that it's really not a great idea to try it, especially not in a .38.

zebulonsmith · February 1, 2009, 10:31 PM

While we're on the subject, can I shoot .410 slugs in my .45-70?

I can't believe that this post made it as far as it did without a resounding NO.

Tom2 · February 1, 2009, 11:23 PM

OK my old loading manual says that the case is 5 thousandths fatter than a 38 or 357. So might be a snug fit. Also the loads are listing pressures like around 30,000 CUP, plus or minus, far in excess of +P 38. Not far in excess of 357 though. But the bullets are supposed to be .356 diameter which is not that much smaller than the 357 bullets, but might yield fair or poor accuracy in the magnum. If it is expensive ammo, it would be sort of a waste to use it in the improper gun and perhaps yield poor results or stuck cases etc. I like the idea of trading it off to someone. You could fire some in the magnum revolver just to give us a report of how well or unwell it worked, but then a partial box of the ammo is gonna be worth little as trading goods, for your trouble.

Daryl · February 2, 2009, 04:30 PM

Just because it has ".38" in the name, it doesn't mean you can shoot it in any revolver that says ".38".

It's a different case, and the bullet is actually a tiny bit smaller. The bullet isn't a problem, but the case is.

Don't do it.

Daryl

**Mike Irwin** · February 2, 2009, 04:32 PM

"You could fire some in the magnum revolver just to give us a report of how well or unwell it worked"

I've already reported that. It worked just fine. Extraction was an issue because of the miniscule rim.

Accuracy was just fine. .001 difference in bullet diameter is nothing.

RickB · February 2, 2009, 04:59 PM

One of my favorite gun-store quotes; when a customer asked for .38 Super and the employee put a box of .38 Special on the counter, the customer asked if that was the correct ammo? The employee responded, "This will work in all .38s, that's why they call it 'Special'."

**Mike Irwin** · February 2, 2009, 05:01 PM

Ouch.

Now I have a headache.

Tom2 · February 2, 2009, 05:07 PM

Well what I meant was if he was gonna go ahead and do it, I wanted to hear what happens(morbid curiosity?). Otherwise I did not say he ought to do it. I would not.

mnw42 · February 2, 2009, 05:20 PM

I'd trade ya', but I'm running a little low on specials myself.

armsmaster270 · February 2, 2009, 08:27 PM

winchester 38+p+ is rated at 23,500 C.U.P. which is approx a 30% overload for 38 spl. If 38 super is 30,000 I would say it is a big no no.

Sampson816 · April 25, 2009, 08:23 AM

I am somewhat relieved and frustrated at the same time, relieved that I found this forum with a good group of knowledgeable folks, and frustrated that I have shot a half box of .38 Super through my new GP-161! I purchased the ammo from / at the same place (gun and ammo laying on the counter) nobody saying a word.
I'm not "new" to the gun world but had no idea there was a difference between "Super" and "Special", especially considering the Remmington box clearly states "50 centerfire pistol and revolver cartridges". Admittedly I never gave the word "pistol" in that statement enough thought.
They were a little snug (2 cylinder holes were sized perfectly) and didn't eject as my other revolver does. It being a new gun, and some fitting I thought perhaps something wrong with the cylinder...and now I know better!
As far as accuracy, brother look out cause it wasn't bad.
Anyway sorry for the long post and thanks to all for the insight!!!

lmccrock · April 25, 2009, 10:47 AM

There is (was?) an 8-shot S&W revolver in 38 Super, expected to be loaded with the Super rounds in moon clips.

So, with ammo prices as they are, if you have a couple boxes 38 super ammo around, may as well buy a new gun to go with the ammo.

Lee

harry carey · April 25, 2009, 11:17 AM

dimensions vary greatly on S&W revs. M19 is large chambered. old S&W guns are large dimensioned. I know . there is a reason I have 38 cast bullets in 356, 357, 358, 359, and unsized 359 or 360 at the seam. commercial molds are smaller than hand molds. I buy unsized comm. bullets .359 at seam .3585 away from seam, graphite dipped for old guns, this is why I have sold almost all of the old guns. I will be resizing already sized bullets soon for a S&W 547 9mm rev. I am loading wadcutters in it. 356 is the best bullet dimension, 355 throats. 357 bullets are difficult to load but not impossible.

sandbag · April 25, 2009, 05:05 PM

I would say don't shoot it in a .38+p revolver.
You "could"safely shoot it in a .357,but the round wasn't designed for that revolver,and while no "kaboom"would result,other problems could occur.

Archie · April 25, 2009, 10:04 PM

Shot factory loaded Super .38 from two or three revolvers, both .357 Magnum and .38 Special - one M36 Smith, to be precise.

They shot pretty much normally, as I recall; nor did I have much problem with extraction. (But then, I'm one of those 'muzzle up, pump and shake' types.)

Having said all that, it's probably not the best idea for routine use. More one of those 'having a really bad day' solutions.

Also, I'm in the Long Beach, CA area and I have a couple boxes of factory (Remington, I think) .38 Special +p ammo I would be happy to trade, provided neither of us will go to jail in the process.

Radagast · April 25, 2009, 10:57 PM

This thread got me interested, so I checked. .38 Super is a very tight fit in the chambers of my model 66 - they have to be pushed in, and the extractor does work. I'll stick to shooting the correct rounds however.

January 31, 2009, 10:57 PM	#1
DoRnbush Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2009 Posts: 1	.38 Super Auto in a .38 Spl +P revolver? I just recently attended a gunshow and in the heat of things picked up two boxes of .38 Super Auto rounds instead of .38 Special +P. I have two S&W revolvers, a new 642 .38 Spl +P and a really old .357 snub-nose that belonged to my father which I shoot .38 Spl out of all the time. I know that I cannot use .38 Super Auto in a standard .38 Special but can I use it in my current +P rated revolvers? Or am I just stupid for asking if I can shoot semi-auto rounds out of a revolver? Thanks for the insight.

January 31, 2009, 11:12 PM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	It's a pretty bad idea. Given the pressure that .38 Super runs at, a .357 Magnum revolver can handle the pressure but a revolver rated for .38 Spl or even .38 Spl +P isn't meant for those pressures. Also, it's a rimless round that's going to want to slide deep in the chamber and won't reliably fire in any case. If/when you do get it to fire, the bullet is smaller than expected in any .38/.357 revolver, so accuracy will likely be really bad and the cases will likely split as they don't fit properly. Given that the .38 Super ammo was likely more expensive than what you meant to find, you might have luck swapping them with someone who needs them. Problem is that it's not what you'd call a common caliber, so finding someone who needs them won't be easy. You aren't stupid for asking-- but it would be pretty stupid to do it without asking and damage yourself or one of your firearms. But there is really nothing you'll gain from shooting them, other than a loud "bang" if you are able to detonate 'em. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 31, 2009, 11:36 PM	#5
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	It shouldn't chamber in a .38 Special or a .357 magnum -- the case is too fat. However (this is scary) it might chamber just fine in an old top-break .38 S&W Hopefully it would only go in .775" and stop. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

February 1, 2009, 12:32 AM	#7
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,104	.38 Super will chamber, and extract in .38 Special/.357 revolvers. You shouldn't shoot it in them though! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 1, 2009, 01:43 PM	#9
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	I love the comments about taking advice from anonymous people on the internet... What is the purpose of these forums? Which is better, soliciting advice from good, normal people who've spent many years in the hobby and lifestyle, and taking all of those opinions and hoping to learn from it and make a decision-- or simply do something with no thought whatsoever? It's not like some random goof has just asked us if it's okay to drink gasoline and light his farts here. People are basically good. Take in all the opinions, sort them out and try to apply some of it to your situation. That's a helluva lot different than picking out one post from an armchair internet ninja who might suggest he go out and do something that's obviously stupid or illegal or both. Sheesh. Over the years I've learned a heap of invaluable info on firearms, reloading, concealed carry, motorcycles, home repair and a hundred other topics. All from reading and asking questions of normal GOOD people on the internet. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 31, 2009, 11:17 PM	#3
mnhntr Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Posts: 972	post an add in the classifieds to swap for ammo you can use.

January 31, 2009, 11:38 PM	#6
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	NOOOOOOO!!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! and NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

February 1, 2009, 11:32 AM	#8
LightningJoe Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Location: DFW Metroplex (well, McKinney) Posts: 858	Your gun has the name of cartridge stamped into it somewhere. Use that cartridge as a general rule. If you are an expert, then you may know better. If you're asking about it on the Internet, you're not an expert. If you're taking the advice of anonymous people on the Internet, well...

February 1, 2009, 01:51 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	I've shot .38 Super out of a .357 before. Worked just fine, but the rims very readily slip under the extractor star, tying things up. Nominal base diameter on a .38 Super is .383, which is a bit larger than the listed nominal base diameter on a .357. But I had no problems dropping them into the chambers on my Model 19. That said... I agree that it's really not a great idea to try it, especially not in a .38.

February 1, 2009, 10:31 PM	#11
zebulonsmith Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 307	While we're on the subject, can I shoot .410 slugs in my .45-70? I can't believe that this post made it as far as it did without a resounding NO.

February 1, 2009, 11:23 PM	#12
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	OK my old loading manual says that the case is 5 thousandths fatter than a 38 or 357. So might be a snug fit. Also the loads are listing pressures like around 30,000 CUP, plus or minus, far in excess of +P 38. Not far in excess of 357 though. But the bullets are supposed to be .356 diameter which is not that much smaller than the 357 bullets, but might yield fair or poor accuracy in the magnum. If it is expensive ammo, it would be sort of a waste to use it in the improper gun and perhaps yield poor results or stuck cases etc. I like the idea of trading it off to someone. You could fire some in the magnum revolver just to give us a report of how well or unwell it worked, but then a partial box of the ammo is gonna be worth little as trading goods, for your trouble.

February 2, 2009, 04:30 PM	#13
Daryl Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Posts: 2,350	Just because it has ".38" in the name, it doesn't mean you can shoot it in any revolver that says ".38". It's a different case, and the bullet is actually a tiny bit smaller. The bullet isn't a problem, but the case is. Don't do it. Daryl

February 2, 2009, 04:32 PM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	"You could fire some in the magnum revolver just to give us a report of how well or unwell it worked" I've already reported that. It worked just fine. Extraction was an issue because of the miniscule rim. Accuracy was just fine. .001 difference in bullet diameter is nothing.

February 2, 2009, 04:59 PM	#15
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,559	One of my favorite gun-store quotes; when a customer asked for .38 Super and the employee put a box of .38 Special on the counter, the customer asked if that was the correct ammo? The employee responded, "This will work in all .38s, that's why they call it 'Special'."

February 2, 2009, 05:01 PM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	Ouch. Now I have a headache.

February 2, 2009, 05:07 PM	#17
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Well what I meant was if he was gonna go ahead and do it, I wanted to hear what happens(morbid curiosity?). Otherwise I did not say he ought to do it. I would not.

February 2, 2009, 05:20 PM	#18
mnw42 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2008 Location: Bucks Co., PA Posts: 210	I'd trade ya', but I'm running a little low on specials myself.

February 2, 2009, 08:27 PM	#19
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	winchester 38+p+ is rated at 23,500 C.U.P. which is approx a 30% overload for 38 spl. If 38 super is 30,000 I would say it is a big no no.

April 25, 2009, 08:23 AM	#20
Sampson816 Junior Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Posts: 1	I thought I knew... I am somewhat relieved and frustrated at the same time, relieved that I found this forum with a good group of knowledgeable folks, and frustrated that I have shot a half box of .38 Super through my new GP-161! I purchased the ammo from / at the same place (gun and ammo laying on the counter) nobody saying a word. I'm not "new" to the gun world but had no idea there was a difference between "Super" and "Special", especially considering the Remmington box clearly states "50 centerfire pistol and revolver cartridges". Admittedly I never gave the word "pistol" in that statement enough thought. They were a little snug (2 cylinder holes were sized perfectly) and didn't eject as my other revolver does. It being a new gun, and some fitting I thought perhaps something wrong with the cylinder...and now I know better! As far as accuracy, brother look out cause it wasn't bad. Anyway sorry for the long post and thanks to all for the insight!!!

April 25, 2009, 10:47 AM	#21
lmccrock Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Red Rock. TX Posts: 820	There is (was?) an 8-shot S&W revolver in 38 Super, expected to be loaded with the Super rounds in moon clips. So, with ammo prices as they are, if you have a couple boxes 38 super ammo around, may as well buy a new gun to go with the ammo. Lee

April 25, 2009, 11:17 AM	#22
harry carey Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Location: georgia Posts: 67	dimensions vary greatly on S&W revs. M19 is large chambered. old S&W guns are large dimensioned. I know . there is a reason I have 38 cast bullets in 356, 357, 358, 359, and unsized 359 or 360 at the seam. commercial molds are smaller than hand molds. I buy unsized comm. bullets .359 at seam .3585 away from seam, graphite dipped for old guns, this is why I have sold almost all of the old guns. I will be resizing already sized bullets soon for a S&W 547 9mm rev. I am loading wadcutters in it. 356 is the best bullet dimension, 355 throats. 357 bullets are difficult to load but not impossible.

April 25, 2009, 05:05 PM	#23
sandbag Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2008 Posts: 642	Don't I would say don't shoot it in a .38+p revolver. You "could"safely shoot it in a .357,but the round wasn't designed for that revolver,and while no "kaboom"would result,other problems could occur.

April 25, 2009, 10:04 PM	#24
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	I've done it as well. Shot factory loaded Super .38 from two or three revolvers, both .357 Magnum and .38 Special - one M36 Smith, to be precise. They shot pretty much normally, as I recall; nor did I have much problem with extraction. (But then, I'm one of those 'muzzle up, pump and shake' types.) Having said all that, it's probably not the best idea for routine use. More one of those 'having a really bad day' solutions. Also, I'm in the Long Beach, CA area and I have a couple boxes of factory (Remington, I think) .38 Special +p ammo I would be happy to trade, provided neither of us will go to jail in the process.

April 25, 2009, 10:57 PM	#25
Radagast Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2001 Posts: 449	This thread got me interested, so I checked. .38 Super is a very tight fit in the chambers of my model 66 - they have to be pushed in, and the extractor does work. I'll stick to shooting the correct rounds however.