Home Invasion / Lights On or Off?

AdamSean · December 31, 2008, 01:16 AM

Its the middle of the night. You are woken to a loud sound. You grab your choice of home defense weapon and get up to investigate. Now here is the question. Do you turn on the lights as you go or leave them off?

I was running a short drill earlier and noticed that if my bedroom light is on, someone in the living room would be able to see my shadow coming around the corner. So I would think that leaving the lights off would be safer as it would leave you unseen. I keep a Sure Fire flashlight next to my handgun as a sighting tool. Does this sound like the safest way?

Sixer · December 31, 2008, 01:23 AM

Simply put, I would think more lights ON would make your average BG more likely to flee. Darkness is a criminal's friend...

That being said, youre not always going to be in a position or have time to get your house lights on. That's a great reason to always have a BRIGHT flashlight close at hand.

You could also intall some "clap on" lights

hillbillyshooter · December 31, 2008, 01:33 AM

This would be hard to do, but it would seem that it would be possible to use the dark as our friend. If you could get the lights on in the room you are about to enter while you stay hidden in the dark yourself, you would be using using the dark to your advantage as consealment. The lights coming on in the room that the BG is in before he saw you would also likely startle them and you would at minimum hear movement. With this said, a nice bright flashlight would be optimal. I have been on the business end of a SureFire and it is nearly blinding.

Three44s · December 31, 2008, 01:35 AM

Have any of you folks ran any drills with handheld lights and done some shooting in the dark???

Three 44s

Nnobby45 · December 31, 2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

I keep a Sure Fire flashlight next to my handgun as a sighting tool. Does this sound like the safest way?

Yes, it does sound a mite smarter than completely illuminating the room you're in so Bubba can shoot you full of holes from out of the dark.

scorpion_tyr · December 31, 2008, 01:50 AM

I guess it all depends on the situation. Yes darkness is the BG's buddy, but it's not so friendly in an unknown house. Lighting is very important to home defense, but it can get rather expensive to wire it up so that it meets your needs. My own situation I would leave most of the lights off. The exception is the lights in the living room can be turned on from down the hall. If the "bumps" in the night are coming from in there I can turn it on, illuminating that room entirely, making the BG poop himself, and my FNP-40 with night sights and I can remain unseen in the shadows.

Now that that is said, the best answer for the senario you have given would be: Stay where you are. If you think the BG is in your house, grab your phone and your HD weapon. Get in a very good defensive position in your bedroom with the weapon pointed at the door and the phone ready. (I tell my wife to get in the corner on the other side of the bed, cell phone on bed, gun resting on bed so not to wear out the arms) When you are sure someone is breaking into your home dial 911. If the BG comes in your room, as soon as you make positive target ID, take him out.

I say all this because clearing a house is that is occupied by a BG is very dangerous stuff. Even if you've been trained on how to do it, it's not usually a good idea. Staying in the room you are already in is the safest route to go. However, many of us do not have that option. If you live with other people (roommates, kids, etc) the safest coarse of action for them is for you to locate, identify and eliminate the threat.

This is all why doing home invasion drills are very important. Get a couple of airsoft guns (and safety glasses), and you and another person play sleepy-head and robber. Experiment with turning lights on and off, see which ones give you the advantage and which ones don't. You'll be very suprised at how lights can either save the night, or ruin it.

Edited:

Quote:

Yeah, bright flashlight. Give the Bad Guy a target to shoot at.

Bring the flashlight, but you don't have to turn it on until you need it. Have you ever tried to aquire a target while, or after, a surefire has been shined right in your eyes after they've adjusted to the darkness? It's pretty much impossible. The BG can go with instinctive aiming, but he can do that at noise and shadows as well.

Rescue2 · December 31, 2008, 01:59 AM

Consider also your own eyes' reaction to a sudden exposure to light from darkness.
Your eyesight will be degraded (loss of night vision), and your ability to focus on target will be diminished.
IMO, first order of business should be to dial (or have someone else do it) 911, while you take a defensive position in the shadows.
Best to have night lights illuminating passageways/hallways outside of your bedrooms to see approaching subjects, and only light up the subject when they intrude.
This gives you the opportunity to identify - friend or foe (IFF), and take appropriate action.
But the above is only my opinion...
(edit - I see that Scorpion TYR shares a similar view...)

Slopemeno · December 31, 2008, 03:13 AM

I've said it before: A weapon mounted light, properly used (read: don't turn it on until you need it) is one of the best tools you can have on a home defense weapon.

Hawaiian Eye · December 31, 2008, 03:36 AM

Optimally, have the BG in a lighted situation where you can ID him and get a good sight picture while you are obscured by darkness or a physical barrier. Most likely that won't happen.

I've got several of the COSTCO night lights and they do well enough to navigate around the house and for prelimnary target confrimation - when they're on. In a power outage or if your electrical main has been turned off you can end up literally in the dark. So I'm wondering what battery powered light source would be best. Seems like a good tactical light turned on at the last moment for a positive FOF ID and to blind the BG would be best. I've heard many pros and cons about weapon mounted and hand held tac lights, but for now I'm undecided as to which if any is best.

Part of my SOP is to get my family into a safe room, dial 911, defend the door, and wait for the police to arrive. Leave clearing the house to a trained LE team - the only exception I'd make is to find a child or other family member that's unaccounted for and get them into the safe room.

Glasstream15 · December 31, 2008, 08:17 AM

I have several power failure/night light combos. I think they are Sylvania and Costco, Sam's and BJ's all have them. About $15 for 3. They come on as a night light, but power failure they also turn on on battery. They have about a 4 or 5 hour battery life and make enough light to make a preliminary ID easy.

Double Naught Spy · December 31, 2008, 09:24 AM

Where weapon lights work best is with teams (such as SWAT teams) and when dealing with just one intruder or multiple intruders clumped together. Lights work so well for SWAT teams because each member is responsible for a specific area and all other areas are covered by other members of the team. So what each team member sees is a well illuminated area and that is their only area of concentration.

If you are tracking an intruder and find him/her with your light, even though weapon lights are bright, it has a focussed area of brightness and peripheral areas are darker (but illuminated via reflection because most weapon lights are awfully bright). So your attention is drawn to the brightest area of illumination and where the action is. Your peripheral vision is both peripheral and then is further hampered by the fact that what it is able to see isn't as well illuminated as the one target you do see. That means that other intruders, potential unbeknownst to you, have the advantage in the shadows. Additionally, they can be relatively sure that where your light is focussed, your attention is focussed. In short, they know where you are looking even without looking at you.

So there can be very definite disadvantages to using weapon lights. As noted above, if use properly, they can be a very valuable tool, but most folks don't understand how to use weapon lights properly in regard to addressing one or more intruders in their home. For that matter, they don't know how to use flashlights properly and also don't understand how to conduct searches for intruders (which is the activity being alluded to in the OP).

Hawaiian Eye · December 31, 2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Where weapon lights work best is with teams (such as SWAT teams) and when dealing with just one intruder or multiple intruders clumped together. Lights work so well for SWAT teams because each member is responsible for a specific area and all other areas are covered by other members of the team. So what each team member sees is a well illuminated area and that is their only area of concentration.

If you are tracking an intruder and find him/her with your light, even though weapon lights are bright, it has a focussed area of brightness and peripheral areas are darker (but illuminated via reflection because most weapon lights are awfully bright). So your attention is drawn to the brightest area of illumination and where the action is. Your peripheral vision is both peripheral and then is further hampered by the fact that what it is able to see isn't as well illuminated as the one target you do see. That means that other intruders, potential unbeknownst to you, have the advantage in the shadows. Additionally, they can be relatively sure that where your light is focussed, your attention is focussed. In short, they know where you are looking even without looking at you.

So there can be very definite disadvantages to using weapon lights. As noted above, if use properly, they can be a very valuable tool, but most folks don't understand how to use weapon lights properly in regard to addressing one or more intruders in their home. For that matter, they don't know how to use flashlights properly and also don't understand how to conduct searches for intruders (which is the activity being alluded to in the OP).

Thank you for the information. Tantilzing insight. Could you post references for good reading or online instruction about the proper use of tactical lights, gun mounted or otherwise.
__________________
Alas Babylon

cnutco · December 31, 2008, 10:49 AM

This topic comes up a lot...

I would never want to clear my house if something goes bump in the night. BUT, my daughters room is on the otherside of the house and she is the first thought that goes through my head. So, I will go to her.

A few months ago I read a post on here or somewhere. It was about clearing your house at night in the dark. Someone posted up about automated lights. I looked around and ended up at www.smarthome.com.

Now, if something goes bump in the night... I hit a button on my nightstand beside my HD gun and every light in the house comes on. Or, if I so choose, hit another one and just the livingroom comes on. Not sure about you, but if I were somewhere I should not be and all the lights came on... I would get the hell out of dodge.

INSTEON is not cheap, but you can start out small and build it at your own pace. It is very easy. I am looking to have full automation of my house by the end of next year. This will also enclude... my home sending me a text when my gun safe is opened. The options are endless.

Check out some of the starter kits here http://www.smarthome.com/_/Dimmers_L...b/1QX/nav.aspx

Just my two cents! Smarter is safer...

**Frank Ettin** · December 31, 2008, 10:57 AM

It's better not to go investigating "bumps in the night" if you think there actually may be a BG there.

[1] You arm yourself. You investigate as best you can from a place of safety in house with your family. You wait and quietly listen. Does the sound repeat? Can you begin to identify it? Can you positively identify it as something innocuous? If the sound is clearly from outside, you look out nearby windows.

[2] If you can't identify the sound and believe there is a danger, you assure that your family and any known visitors are all together and with you in a place of safety. You call the police. You maintain telephone contact with the police. And you wait.

[3] You do not go anywhere to investigate, because --

(a) If you go looking, and there is indeed a BG there, you will be at an extreme tactical disadvantage. You can easily be ambushed or flanked. You may also have given a BG access to family members to use as hostages. Or there maybe more than one BG, one of whom can get to your family while you're occupied with the other one.

(b) When (whether you called them or they were called by a neighbor who may have also seen or heard something) the police respond, they don't know who you are. You are just someone with a weapon.

And here is an example of what can happen if you go investigating: http://cbs11tv.com/local/watauga.sta....2.851147.html. The BG was outnumbered. The BG brought a knife to a gunfight. The BG was on unfamiliar territory. But the BG also had a significant tactical advantage and won the fight.

Massad Ayoob tells a story about the National Tactical Invitational, an annual competition in which some 130 of the top shooters and firearm trainers participate by invitation only. One of the events is a force-on-force exercise using simunitions in which the competitor must clear a house against a single "BG." According to Mas during the first six years of the NTI, one, and only one, competitor got through one of those six NTIs without being judged killed, and he was head of NASA security firearms training at the time. And one, and only one, made it through the seventh year. The tactical advantage of the ensconced adversary is just too great. And remember, these competitors were highly skilled, highly trained fighters.

cnutco · December 31, 2008, 11:12 AM

In my above post, I mentioned that I saw this posted somewhere else. That poster had a great idea...

His idea was something like this:

Quote:

Ask a kid to hide in your house at night and arm you and him with a watergun or some type of toy gun that shots something. Then try to clear the house.

You will loose!

Hawaiian Eye · December 31, 2008, 11:18 AM

More great information! Some new, some a review, all good. After reading sever threads here I am a firm believer that clearing, solo or otherwise, is best left to the experts who are well trained and equiped to perform the task.

Like cnutco I anticpate situations where retreving a family member from another part of the house and returning to a safe room (where the rest of the family would be) could become a definite possibility. In those instances, whatever training in cleariing and the use of a battery powered light source become extremely valuable.

Night lites with battery backup, remote light controls, and security cameras are all great aids as well when the budget allows. After Christmas and New Year's preparations the budget isn't allowing much. In the future though, some of these tools will find their way into my house.

Keltyke · December 31, 2008, 11:25 AM

A big +1 to fiddletown and cnutco. Never try to clear a building yourself. You're not trained for it and as said - you WILL lose!

If you have remote lights, turn them on. Leave the room you're in dark. If you're sure the sound is menacing, or it's repeated, grab the family, bunker down in concealment, and call the police. Prepare to defend your position - don't go hunting.

ZeSpectre · December 31, 2008, 11:38 AM

RELEASE THE DOGS!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

oh, sorry.

Really though, if you are going to plan ahead for this sort of thing lights on/off isn't really the question.

If you are sure the sound is a threat then the best plan runs along the line of...
1) Secure yourself and your family as best as you can
2) Call for backup (Police)
3) Stay put unless you HAVE to move, don't make the cop's job any harder than it has to be when they arrive and start clearing the house.

Unfortunately it is really tough (most times) to determine if there is a threat so you need to figure out what to do in that real-world scenario where you don't really feel that "bump in the night" was a threat but you do feel you should investigate rather than just go back to bed.

In such a situation I personally prefer as much stealth as I can get, and the wife not too far away with phone in hand in case there really is a 911 (or a 1911) type problem.

Jmacinnis1 · December 31, 2008, 12:37 PM

you know, you could always leave the lights off, making the BG feel like he has the upper hand. Now slap on those night vision goggles you got on sale and go snoop around!

wait, what happens if the BG turns the lights on with you in the room?

**Frank Ettin** · December 31, 2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacinnis1

...you know, you could always leave the lights off, making the BG feel like he has the upper hand. Now slap on those night vision goggles you got on sale and go snoop around! wait, what happens if the BG turns the lights on with you in the room?...

Or has his own flashlight that he turns on while you're wearing your night vision gizmo? Or knows you're coming, flanks and jumps you? Or has a buddy who goes after your kid while you're playing tag with BG1? Or has his own night vision thingie?

Have fun.

ump45 · December 31, 2008, 01:34 PM

I've always wanted to have a master light switch that would turn on all the lights in the entire house. It would be located in the master bedroom of course. Not sure how much it would cost to hire and electrician to wire this up.

Double Naught Spy · December 31, 2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Thank you for the information. Tantilzing insight. Could you post references for good reading or online instruction about the proper use of tactical lights, gun mounted or otherwise.

Um, no. It is something you learn best through actual instruction which is where I learned my insights.

P99AS9 · December 31, 2008, 02:23 PM

This is exactly why they make tactical lights for most guns. I would highly suggest purchasing one. If I was in the situation you described, I would take this:

My Sig P226 in .40
(These are not actual pics of what I own.)

with this attached

http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/Sho...&productid=285

Ron L · December 31, 2008, 02:39 PM

I always used to say that if any BG could get in the house without killing himself on all the crap my kids used to leave laying on the floor, well, he's a better man than I am. And if he's barefooted and can withstand the Legos and barrets, well any gun won't work against him anyway.

Now the kids are grown, so in such an encounter, the only thing I have to do is protect the hallway where the bedroom doors are, and I can basically do that from my bedroom door. I'm not going into the front of the house and anything that's in the front of the house (living room, kitchen, laundry room), they can have.

troy_mclure · December 31, 2008, 03:50 PM

my beretta cx4 storm is all tacticool with lights and lasers and stuff! lol

i also have glow tape on the frame corners of all interior doorways.

the dark is my friend in a home invasion scenario, i KNOW my house, an intruder will be stumbling around.

as to the giving the guy a target with a bright flashlight:
i know from personal experience that if you put an extremely bright light into somebody's eyes they will move to protect their eyes, thus giving you time to shoot.

December 31, 2008, 01:16 AM	#1
AdamSean Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 479	Home Invasion / Lights On or Off? Its the middle of the night. You are woken to a loud sound. You grab your choice of home defense weapon and get up to investigate. Now here is the question. Do you turn on the lights as you go or leave them off? I was running a short drill earlier and noticed that if my bedroom light is on, someone in the living room would be able to see my shadow coming around the corner. So I would think that leaving the lights off would be safer as it would leave you unseen. I keep a Sure Fire flashlight next to my handgun as a sighting tool. Does this sound like the safest way?

December 31, 2008, 09:24 AM	#11
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,793	Where weapon lights work best is with teams (such as SWAT teams) and when dealing with just one intruder or multiple intruders clumped together. Lights work so well for SWAT teams because each member is responsible for a specific area and all other areas are covered by other members of the team. So what each team member sees is a well illuminated area and that is their only area of concentration. If you are tracking an intruder and find him/her with your light, even though weapon lights are bright, it has a focussed area of brightness and peripheral areas are darker (but illuminated via reflection because most weapon lights are awfully bright). So your attention is drawn to the brightest area of illumination and where the action is. Your peripheral vision is both peripheral and then is further hampered by the fact that what it is able to see isn't as well illuminated as the one target you do see. That means that other intruders, potential unbeknownst to you, have the advantage in the shadows. Additionally, they can be relatively sure that where your light is focussed, your attention is focussed. In short, they know where you are looking even without looking at you. So there can be very definite disadvantages to using weapon lights. As noted above, if use properly, they can be a very valuable tool, but most folks don't understand how to use weapon lights properly in regard to addressing one or more intruders in their home. For that matter, they don't know how to use flashlights properly and also don't understand how to conduct searches for intruders (which is the activity being alluded to in the OP). __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 31, 2008, 10:49 AM	#13
cnutco Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: NE GA Posts: 189	INSTEON from smarthome.com This topic comes up a lot... I would never want to clear my house if something goes bump in the night. BUT, my daughters room is on the otherside of the house and she is the first thought that goes through my head. So, I will go to her. A few months ago I read a post on here or somewhere. It was about clearing your house at night in the dark. Someone posted up about automated lights. I looked around and ended up at www.smarthome.com. Now, if something goes bump in the night... I hit a button on my nightstand beside my HD gun and every light in the house comes on. Or, if I so choose, hit another one and just the livingroom comes on. Not sure about you, but if I were somewhere I should not be and all the lights came on... I would get the hell out of dodge. INSTEON is not cheap, but you can start out small and build it at your own pace. It is very easy. I am looking to have full automation of my house by the end of next year. This will also enclude... my home sending me a text when my gun safe is opened. The options are endless. Check out some of the starter kits here http://www.smarthome.com/_/Dimmers_L...b/1QX/nav.aspx Just my two cents! Smarter is safer... Last edited by cnutco; December 31, 2008 at 10:57 AM.

December 31, 2008, 12:37 PM	#19
Jmacinnis1 Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 36	Strange Tactic... you know, you could always leave the lights off, making the BG feel like he has the upper hand. Now slap on those night vision goggles you got on sale and go snoop around! wait, what happens if the BG turns the lights on with you in the room?

December 31, 2008, 02:39 PM	#24
Ron L Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Livonia, MI USA Posts: 386	I always used to say that if any BG could get in the house without killing himself on all the crap my kids used to leave laying on the floor, well, he's a better man than I am. And if he's barefooted and can withstand the Legos and barrets, well any gun won't work against him anyway. Now the kids are grown, so in such an encounter, the only thing I have to do is protect the hallway where the bedroom doors are, and I can basically do that from my bedroom door. I'm not going into the front of the house and anything that's in the front of the house (living room, kitchen, laundry room), they can have. __________________ Ron Detroit Area Chapter Terre-Haute Torque & Recoil Society "If it rolls, floats, or shoots, runs on gunpowder or gasoline, goes fast, shoots a big bullet, or makes lots of noise thus producing torque and recoil - it's cool."

December 31, 2008, 01:23 AM	#2
Sixer Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,891	Simply put, I would think more lights ON would make your average BG more likely to flee. Darkness is a criminal's friend... That being said, youre not always going to be in a position or have time to get your house lights on. That's a great reason to always have a BRIGHT flashlight close at hand. You could also intall some "clap on" lights

December 31, 2008, 01:33 AM	#3
hillbillyshooter Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2008 Location: Wild, Wonderful West Virginia Posts: 315	This would be hard to do, but it would seem that it would be possible to use the dark as our friend. If you could get the lights on in the room you are about to enter while you stay hidden in the dark yourself, you would be using using the dark to your advantage as consealment. The lights coming on in the room that the BG is in before he saw you would also likely startle them and you would at minimum hear movement. With this said, a nice bright flashlight would be optimal. I have been on the business end of a SureFire and it is nearly blinding.

December 31, 2008, 01:35 AM	#4
Three44s Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2008 Posts: 108	Have any of you folks ran any drills with handheld lights and done some shooting in the dark??? Three 44s

December 31, 2008, 01:59 AM	#7
Rescue2 Member Join Date: December 7, 2008 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 38	Consider also your own eyes' reaction to a sudden exposure to light from darkness. Your eyesight will be degraded (loss of night vision), and your ability to focus on target will be diminished. IMO, first order of business should be to dial (or have someone else do it) 911, while you take a defensive position in the shadows. Best to have night lights illuminating passageways/hallways outside of your bedrooms to see approaching subjects, and only light up the subject when they intrude. This gives you the opportunity to identify - friend or foe (IFF), and take appropriate action. But the above is only my opinion... (edit - I see that Scorpion TYR shares a similar view...)

December 31, 2008, 03:13 AM	#8
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I've said it before: A weapon mounted light, properly used (read: don't turn it on until you need it) is one of the best tools you can have on a home defense weapon.

December 31, 2008, 03:36 AM	#9
Hawaiian Eye Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 24	Optimally, have the BG in a lighted situation where you can ID him and get a good sight picture while you are obscured by darkness or a physical barrier. Most likely that won't happen. I've got several of the COSTCO night lights and they do well enough to navigate around the house and for prelimnary target confrimation - when they're on. In a power outage or if your electrical main has been turned off you can end up literally in the dark. So I'm wondering what battery powered light source would be best. Seems like a good tactical light turned on at the last moment for a positive FOF ID and to blind the BG would be best. I've heard many pros and cons about weapon mounted and hand held tac lights, but for now I'm undecided as to which if any is best. Part of my SOP is to get my family into a safe room, dial 911, defend the door, and wait for the police to arrive. Leave clearing the house to a trained LE team - the only exception I'd make is to find a child or other family member that's unaccounted for and get them into the safe room.

December 31, 2008, 08:17 AM	#10
Glasstream15 Member Join Date: October 12, 2008 Location: The Oldest City Posts: 33	I have several power failure/night light combos. I think they are Sylvania and Costco, Sam's and BJ's all have them. About $15 for 3. They come on as a night light, but power failure they also turn on on battery. They have about a 4 or 5 hour battery life and make enough light to make a preliminary ID easy.

December 31, 2008, 10:57 AM	#14
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,475	It's better not to go investigating "bumps in the night" if you think there actually may be a BG there. [1] You arm yourself. You investigate as best you can from a place of safety in house with your family. You wait and quietly listen. Does the sound repeat? Can you begin to identify it? Can you positively identify it as something innocuous? If the sound is clearly from outside, you look out nearby windows. [2] If you can't identify the sound and believe there is a danger, you assure that your family and any known visitors are all together and with you in a place of safety. You call the police. You maintain telephone contact with the police. And you wait. [3] You do not go anywhere to investigate, because -- (a) If you go looking, and there is indeed a BG there, you will be at an extreme tactical disadvantage. You can easily be ambushed or flanked. You may also have given a BG access to family members to use as hostages. Or there maybe more than one BG, one of whom can get to your family while you're occupied with the other one. (b) When (whether you called them or they were called by a neighbor who may have also seen or heard something) the police respond, they don't know who you are. You are just someone with a weapon. And here is an example of what can happen if you go investigating: http://cbs11tv.com/local/watauga.sta....2.851147.html. The BG was outnumbered. The BG brought a knife to a gunfight. The BG was on unfamiliar territory. But the BG also had a significant tactical advantage and won the fight. Massad Ayoob tells a story about the National Tactical Invitational, an annual competition in which some 130 of the top shooters and firearm trainers participate by invitation only. One of the events is a force-on-force exercise using simunitions in which the competitor must clear a house against a single "BG." According to Mas during the first six years of the NTI, one, and only one, competitor got through one of those six NTIs without being judged killed, and he was head of NASA security firearms training at the time. And one, and only one, made it through the seventh year. The tactical advantage of the ensconced adversary is just too great. And remember, these competitors were highly skilled, highly trained fighters.

December 31, 2008, 11:18 AM	#16
Hawaiian Eye Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 24	More great information! Some new, some a review, all good. After reading sever threads here I am a firm believer that clearing, solo or otherwise, is best left to the experts who are well trained and equiped to perform the task. Like cnutco I anticpate situations where retreving a family member from another part of the house and returning to a safe room (where the rest of the family would be) could become a definite possibility. In those instances, whatever training in cleariing and the use of a battery powered light source become extremely valuable. Night lites with battery backup, remote light controls, and security cameras are all great aids as well when the budget allows. After Christmas and New Year's preparations the budget isn't allowing much. In the future though, some of these tools will find their way into my house.

December 31, 2008, 11:25 AM	#17
Keltyke Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 2,933	A big +1 to fiddletown and cnutco. Never try to clear a building yourself. You're not trained for it and as said - you WILL lose! If you have remote lights, turn them on. Leave the room you're in dark. If you're sure the sound is menacing, or it's repeated, grab the family, bunker down in concealment, and call the police. Prepare to defend your position - don't go hunting.

December 31, 2008, 11:38 AM	#18
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	RELEASE THE DOGS!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! oh, sorry. Really though, if you are going to plan ahead for this sort of thing lights on/off isn't really the question. If you are sure the sound is a threat then the best plan runs along the line of... 1) Secure yourself and your family as best as you can 2) Call for backup (Police) 3) Stay put unless you HAVE to move, don't make the cop's job any harder than it has to be when they arrive and start clearing the house. Unfortunately it is really tough (most times) to determine if there is a threat so you need to figure out what to do in that real-world scenario where you don't really feel that "bump in the night" was a threat but you do feel you should investigate rather than just go back to bed. In such a situation I personally prefer as much stealth as I can get, and the wife not too far away with phone in hand in case there really is a 911 (or a 1911) type problem.

December 31, 2008, 01:34 PM	#21
ump45 Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2001 Posts: 286	I've always wanted to have a master light switch that would turn on all the lights in the entire house. It would be located in the master bedroom of course. Not sure how much it would cost to hire and electrician to wire this up.

December 31, 2008, 02:23 PM	#23
P99AS9 Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 612	This is exactly why they make tactical lights for most guns. I would highly suggest purchasing one. If I was in the situation you described, I would take this: My Sig P226 in .40 (These are not actual pics of what I own.) with this attached http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/Sho...&productid=285

December 31, 2008, 03:50 PM	#25
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	my beretta cx4 storm is all tacticool with lights and lasers and stuff! lol i also have glow tape on the frame corners of all interior doorways. the dark is my friend in a home invasion scenario, i KNOW my house, an intruder will be stumbling around. as to the giving the guy a target with a bright flashlight: i know from personal experience that if you put an extremely bright light into somebody's eyes they will move to protect their eyes, thus giving you time to shoot.