Meth. Guns and Glory

[Harley Quinn]

Hi all,
This just happened in the town of Elk Grove Ca.

It is not unusual it happens daily many times across the US of A

One of the reasons I am against Meth, and I am for Law Enforcement.
Brave people put their life on the line all the time.

Here is the story out of the Sac Bee in Sacramento CA. (registration required)

Brother says suspect in Laguna Boulevard attacks had marital, drug and job issues.
By Nancy Weaver Teichert and Phillip Reese -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PST Monday, March 27, 2006

Aaron Dunn took his troubled life to Elk Grove Saturday night and, police say, shattered the lives of three strangers and their families, killing one man and seriously wounding two others.
His brother said Dunn's downward spiral started with a recent split with his wife, his addiction to methamphetamine and the loss of his job. But Patrick Dunn can't explain what police say happened on busy Laguna Boulevard at 7:45 p.m. Saturday.

Police gave this account:
Aaron Dunn, using a 12-gauge shotgun, first fired on an unidentified man in a car at Chili's Grill & Bar, hitting him in the head. Dunn then headed east on Laguna Boulevard before crashing his white Toyota Camry.

He got out of his car and started shooting at passing vehicles. He shot another unidentified man at McDonald's, this time in the back.

Then Dunn shot John Johnson, 46, in the parking lot of Mandango's Sports Bar & Grill, mortally wounding him in front of his wife.

More than 30 deputies and officers had swarmed the scene during the chase. Two Elk Grove police officers then shot Dunn.

The victims and Dunn then were taken to UC Davis Medical Center, where Johnson was pronounced dead.

Dunn is under arrest. If he survives, he could be charged with homicide, attempted homicide and assault on police officers, said Sacramento County Sheriff's Sgt. R.L. Davis.

Davis described the shooter's actions as "a completely unprovoked, unwarranted act."

Things started going wrong for Aaron Dunn four months ago, his brother Patrick Dunn said Sunday afternoon.

Aaron Dunn and his wife split up and Aaron had problems with drugs, Patrick Dunn said. Because he was distracted by those personal issues, Aaron Dunn recently was fired from his job as an electrician, his brother said.

"Before this happened, he was just a husband, a father of his daughter," Patrick Dunn said.

On Saturday, Aaron Dunn seemed depressed, his brother said. "He just didn't want to live anymore," Patrick Dunn said.

He had no idea why his brother was in Elk Grove, an hour's drive from his home in the Yuba City-Marysville area.

The meth his brother had been taking, Patrick Dunn said, "infected his mind. I think he couldn't see anything else."

Aaron Dunn is wanted in Yuba City on charges of battery, public intoxication and failing to appear in court, police there said.

The chaos police say Dunn caused in Elk Grove lasted two minutes - long enough to change several lives.

Johnson was a successful freelance cameraman before his death Saturday. He had worked for a number of local TV stations and for Maloof Sports & Entertainment, which owns the Sacramento Kings

He most recently worked for Oakland's KTVU, said friend Velma Wilson.

He and his wife, Karen, "were just going on a Saturday evening date," said Wilson.

He also helped start a charity - the Assist One Foundation - which promoted adoption, Wilson said.

In addition to his wife, Johnson leaves behind three children.

"He was very outgoing," Wilson said. "A compassionate, loving father. A family man. He loved kids."

In addition to the two wounded victims, several other people were injured by debris in the shooting spree, police said.

"It's tragic for all the victims. Our hearts go out to them," said Scott Ashley, owner of Mandango's.

Elvie Ribleza, owner of the Asian Mart not far from the second shooting, acted quickly when she heard the gunshots. She rushed her customers to the back of the store.

On Sunday, she was still waiting for her blood pressure to go down as she tried to get back to business.

"I got hysterical," said Ribleza, who plans to buy flowers to put in the parking lot where Johnson was shot. "I'm kind of scared. I could not sleep last night. I'm very, very tired."

Davis said there is no indication that Aaron Dunn knew any of the victims.

"Why did he target innocent people he had never met?" Davis said.

Counseling is available for the victims' families, police officers and the employees of family restaurants along Laguna Boulevard.

The two officers involved in the shooting, whose names have not been released, have been placed on paid administrative leave during the investigation. One is a six-year veteran, and the other is a four-year veteran of law enforcement, he said.

One officer used her body to shield the man who'd been shot in the back at McDonald's, Davis said. The other shielded another bystander.

Dunn "raised his shotgun at them. As he did that, they fired several rounds at him which incapacitated him," said Davis.

About the writer:
The Bee's Nancy Weaver Teichert can be reached at (916) 321-1058 or [email protected].

Regards,
HQ

[Harley Quinn]

I think this is a good post and needs some attention!

HQ

[jcoiii]

I wish this guy had recieved his dirt nap before shooting innocents. Hopefully one less scumbag on the planet.

[Al Norris]

Harley, this is the same post you placed in the other "Meth" thread, here.

Please PM me about which post you want to remain active. Not both. The other one or this one. Until then, this thread is closed.

[Al Norris]

Harley's post on the Meth II thread redirected here and this thread is reopened.

Harley, you should note that the drug wars are taking their toll on everyone. From the same edition of the Sacramento Bee is this story:

Prosecutors want bail set for prison guard

By Niesha Lofing -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 12:45 pm PST Monday, March 27, 2006
A correctional officer accused of selling methamphetamines and marijuana to inmates at California State Prison, Sacramento, allegedly admitted to investigators that he furnished drugs to inmates and is addicted to crack cocaine.

During Wallace Samuel Laffitte Jr.’s arraignment in Sacramento Superior Court on Monday, supervising deputy district attorney Steve Secrest asked that Laffitte’s bail be increased because his statements lead officials to believe he is a flight risk.

"He’s admitted selling methamphetamines and marijuana to inmates and admitted that he’s addicted to crack cocaine," Secrest said in an interview after the arraignment, repeating what he told Judge Gary E. Ransom in court.

Laffitte, 49, of Sacramento, did not enter a plea Monday. Laffitte, who is free on his own recognizance, declined to comment to the Bee after the arraignment.

Ransom said the bail increase would be discussed at Laffitte’s next hearing, scheduled for April 12.

Laffitte was arrested March 20 on felony charges that include selling and furnishing methamphetamines and marijuana to prison inmates, having the drugs in his car while parked on prison property, possessing drug paraphernalia while on prison property, and having a 9-inch folding and locking knife while on prison grounds, according to the filed criminal complaint.

Laffitte should be held on bail that would normally accompany such charges, which each carry a bail of $10,000, Secrest said after the arraignment.

"He shouldn't be out on his own recognizance," Secrest said.

Laffitte waived his Miranda rights after being arrested and agreed to questioning by Department of Corrections' investigators, who taped the conversation, Secrest said. It was during that interview that Laffitte admitted his drug addiction and furnishing of methamphetamines and marijuana to inmates, Secrest said.

Laffitte is facing up to 10 years in prison if convicted on all charges.

Dressed in a cream suit with light gray checking and wearing light tan glasses, Laffitte stood by himself in court Monday while Ransom read the six felony charges against him.

When Ransom asked if Laffitte, who did not yet have an attorney, could afford a lawyer, he replied "Yes sir."

According to public records, Laffitte earns about $68,000 a year as a correctional officer at California State Prison, Sacramento, which is located in Folsom. He is on administrative leave, pending results of an internal investigation.

Public records indicate that Laffitte may have had financial troubles in recent years. Laffitte filed for bankruptcy in August 2005, the same month a tax lien for $38,631 was assessed against him.

Sacramento County Superior Court records show that he has been sued in civil court by several finance and collection companies.

From Heroes to evil. Sad state of affairs all across the country.

[Harley Quinn]

I did not see that one, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Some days it is Diamonds other days it is Coal. (John Anderson song, I am going to be a Diamond someday).

I still see that both sides are in the news and they should be.

But I have to say I have an Amigo working in Confinement as in jail every day.
That is not a place I would care to be on either side of the bars.

Corrections is such a lame word for these people, it is not, nor never will be the correct term. IMHO.

Folsom is not a good place, Johnny Cash made money on that record and the whole phony history of his life. Drugs to Jesus. Long step.
Sort of like the thing about alcohol and The President now converted. Interesting to say the least.

HQ

[esheato]

I live in the Marysville-Yuba City area...Meth and unemployment are huge problems here, and when combined can be very tragic.

I feel for the victims and their families.

Ed

[invention_45]

Somewhere here, I think in the original (closed) sudafed/meth thread, I proposed a variation on the theme of legalization. It's much like what we have today only no jail.

Adopting this or something similar will eliminate most stories like those above.

The bulk of newly-legal drugs will be put into beverages like cocaine was once put into CocaCola. This will allow you to have a little but have to practically bust your bladder to get seriously trashed.

Your options: buy a case of Coke-Original and sit home and get buzzed or go out to a dangerous area where prices will be much higher (because the bulk of sales will be through legitimate outlets) to get stronger doses.

Many people will take the safe option.

The safe option will be much like coffee is now.

Yes, there will still be a black market, but it will be a much more manageable size.

Far fewer will abuse meth or other substances than use them. Proper use will not necessitate being fired from your job. Anybody ever get fired or even looked at sideways for drinking too much coffee (other than wasting too much time at work)?

How can I make a comparison like this with coffee, you ask? You say coffee isn't a dangerous drug like methamphetamine.

Well, guess what? I PERSONALLY have overdosed on coffee. As in emergency-room overdosed.

When I was 19, I worked for the phone company as an operator. Somebody had a birthday, and there was cake in the break room. Being a pig for cake, I chomped down about 5 slices in my 15 minutes. On my first break, I drank about 10 cups of coffee (the only liquid there). On my 2nd break, I drank at least another 10 with more cake. My break happened to be about 20 minutes before work ended.

I went home and went to bed. My heart then started pounding. It was hard to breathe for a few minutes. And then I started getting abdominal pains so bad I could not talk.

I got up and dragged myself into my dad's bedroom, but I couldn't say a word. He figured something was up, so he got up. He drove me to the hospital emergency room. I was able to write down what happened, but I still couldn't, for some odd reason, speak any coherent words.

They put in an IV with saline, but no drugs. I don't think they believed my story. After about a half hour, I could talk enough to explain how it happened. They put some sort of tranquilizer in the IV and I felt better immedieately. But they had to take an x-ray. I still think they couldn't quite believe it.

$300 and 4 hours later, I left the hospital fine. That was, as you can see by the charge, in the early '70s.

Now, if you are unhappy with Coke-Original, and want a bigger boost, then you have to go sign for it at a pharmacy where, if you look wired or trashed, you'll get a funny look from the pharmacist, and possibly denied service.

So you can still get the kicks you want, so long as you don't mess yourself up enough to worry a pharmacist (or grab a shotgun and start shooting strangers).

The result is we eliminate stories like the one in the Bee, or at least make them far less frequent than they or similar stories involving alcohol are now. We restore our 4th amendment rights. We make organized crime find something else to do.

Of course, I doubt this will ever happen.

[Harley Quinn]

You are very refreshing, to think one so confident to write like it is the way it will be, and trying to sell us the copy.

Some of us have seen it for a long time from both sides. Law officers and parent and Father of the victims (meth victim).

You talk about the meth problem like it will be a wand waved and it will be better. You are so naive in my opinion I just have to look at it that way and say, Ok, if you think so.

HQ

[invention_45]

Harley

Look at today's alcoholics. The ones who have been rendered useless. These people have fathers just like meth users do. But they are not victims. They are just people with very bad judgment.

My family has two members who have died from alcoholism. I don't recall anybody ever referring to them as victims. The booze didn't jump up and accost them. They had to pick up the bottle.

The way you talk is the same way gun banners talk. They want you to think that if a gun is lying on your coffee table, it could suddenly victimize you. Drug banners want us to think that the white powder in the little bag can just jump up and strangle you.

Partnership for a Drug-Free America has sent this message, just like Gun Control, Inc. has, and you have received it.

[FirstFreedom]

Meth is evil. It alters your brain chemistry & cell structure permanently. It it truly a scourge on humanity, in my view. But it does not follow that the so-called 'war on drugs' is a Good Thing, since said war does not *result in* a reduction of meth addicts and crime related thereto. We could spend less than half of what we spend on law enforcement, instead on education about the dangers of the drug, and treatment centers for those that want to rehabilitate, and have far less overall usage rates, and far more civil liberties (and more money in our pockets due to lower taxes).

[Harley Quinn]

Invention_45, the more you post the more you are proving to me that you are not as well read as you think, and that is all I have to say to you about it.
You don't know much about if you figure I have bought into anything.

LOL
HQ

[invention_45]

I don't want to be in the postion of arguing that meth, as it is presented to us today, is a good thing. Not by any stretch.

I have already said that I have a problem with a nutcase and that problem is exacerbated by his meth use.

And I have said that the drug world of the '60s itself had a dim view, or at least a fear, of meth.

But, made and used properly, i.e., under at least some form of professional supervision, methamphetamine is not a universally bad thing. It has caused problems, and has been demonized. But there's no way it would be in Schedule III if it didn't have some really good use in medical practice.

Amphetamine, differing only in its length of action from meth, was used extensively for weight loss in the '50s and '60s. You didn't see ragged housewives leaning on lampposts begging for a quarter to get amphetamine. A lot was being used. There didn't seem to be any problem warranting moving it to Schedule I or II.

Personally, I want nothing to do with methamphetamine. I was a fat kid. I was given benzedrine by my dad's doctor, one bottle every 2 weeks. I kept going to the doctor, but after the first 2 weeks of taking the benzedrine I realized something undesirable (to me) was afoot. I was losing weight, but I was also doing, of all things, homework. I wasn't doing any fun stuff at all, and I realized it was due to the pills.

I immediately stopped taking them. I kept going to the doctor, but just let the pill bottles stack up in the cupboard. And I kept losing the weight, I think because each week I had to face the doctor. I guess my mom eventually threw them away.

So not only does it seem to me there's nothing like real addiction to meth (even though I understand users like it and want more), but it has at least one positive side effect (for normal people) in that it increases their work output.

Here's how I view the totality of what I know about meth. This is just my opinion, of course.

I think that the reason meth is associated with such a mess today is that it has been highly demonized and is illegal. This puts anybody who tries it and likes it in the back alley and out of the disapproving eyes of family or doctors. In this environment, nothing except funding stops a user from using more and more each dose. The result is the person keeps "pressing the lever" for the meth rather than the ones for food, income, or hygiene.

It isn't so much the meth that causes the problems, it's the illegality of it.

[Abndoc]

Back alley meth is not a pharmacy grade drug and except for some of the effects, cannot be compared to one. Not when it is cut with benzene, gasoline, laxatives and other wonderful chemicals. You are at the mercy of whatever your hopped up, krank addicted chemist has in his garage available for use. Legalizing this vile, family destroying poison will not put this genie back in the bottle.
Those who make, distribute and profit from this trade should be stepped on like the cockroaches they are.

[Abndoc]

Do a google search on "Faces of meth" and tell me how we should legalize this.

[jhgreasemonkey]

Meth is terrible and it has affected close family members of mine. I read all of the above and I would like to point out one thing . If coke had a small amount of coke in it like it used to then the addicts and pushers would find a way to extract the coke from the coke. Kind of like meth users do with sudafed. And opiate addicts do when they remove the acitaminiphin from opiate pain killers, discard the acitaminiphin, and you have powerfull opiates. Remove the coke from the drink and you have coke. As much as you want without a full bladder. I'm not knocking your entire idea but that part might need to go back to the drawing board.

[Big Ruger]

So not only does it seem to me there's nothing like real addiction to meth (even though I understand users like it and want more), but it has at least one positive side effect (for normal people) in that it increases their work output.


Without going into to much detail I would say this statement is simply B.S. I have watched my roommates slobbering all over themselves to hit some garbage that was made with things like pavement cleaner for instance. I have had guns pulled on me by dear friends who were so screwed up they thought I was trying to steal thier stash. I watched a beautiful girl of 22 reduced to a filthy tooth rotted, balding, dope whore in the space of 8months. Not addictive? I can tell you that meth was the ONLY common denominator in these instances. I apologize if I have offende anyone with anything I have said, I just dont believe that on this subject there is any such thing as too graphic. The reality is more horrific than most folks can even imagine. ERIC

[invention_45]

About 8 years ago I was friends with at least 20 people. I saw them on a regular basis, once or twice a week each. I later found out that these people were heavy meth users during the entire time I associated with them (I don't anymore because it's legally too risky) and for years before that.

These were mostly (80%) professional people. Every one of them had a job the whole (3 years) time I knew them. Some made a lot of money at their jobs, apparently considered valued employees. None had rotten teeth, at least that I could notice. They WERE all slim.

"I've made it my business to go through the mug shot system every day," the 39-year-old King said. "I'll admit it: I'm looking for the most extreme faces."

So, a guy out to make a point and with access to mug shot histories cherry-picks the worst changes and calls them (not the other faces) the "faces of meth". There's some credibility for you.

I haven't said that meth NEVER damages a person. I just think DARE and Parnership for a Drug-Free America cherry-picks information and uses it for their own purposes (remaining employed). That's called propaganda.

Don't forget that the reason that meth damages some people COULD be not the meth, but the "benzene and gasoline" that comes with it. If Abbott made it, it wouldn't have anything but meth and approved, safe materials in it.

Maybe these "faces of meth" are really "faces of Prohibition II".

And as for not being "well read", I read what interests me. That includes the DARE website, so that I know what today's baloney is.

[jhgreasemonkey]

Wow it almost sounds like you are standing up for the drug and its users 45. I have absolutely no problem spotting meth heads. And it is a very damaging drug. Like the guy above said about the 22 year old girl. That is the norm. This is a huge problem in america and long term affects on the surviving users are going to plague society down the road. Like phycotic behavior and scitzaphrenia. And since a huge percentage of my generation are using the drug whats the future going to be like. A society plagued by these damaged people. Even the small percentage of addicts who can manage to get off the drug are troubled by manic depression, etc. I believe that america needs to deal with the meth problem in the harshest way possible within constitutional law. Did you know even in Montana 80% of inmates are there on meth related charges many of them being violent crimes.

[Derius_T]

45, I THINK I get what you are TRYING to say. That restricting this drug is like restricting anything else, and it somehow violates personal freedoms.

Consider this. You are free to do what you want, legal or illegal. But when your activity legal or illegal, starts to get out of control and seriously affect the lives and well-being of other citizens, then YOU no longer are able to control your damaging behavior, and it must be 'controlled' for you.

If you can take meth, or coke or WHATEVER, FINE. Swallow it till you die. One less burden on the state. But the instant you start freaking out and shooting people because of the drug, you get a bullet. Anything else is simply retarded....

[invention_45]

greasemonkey:

I have said before that I favor a controlled legalization of drugs (not a complete free-for-all), so yes, I'm on the side of meth users. It's OK by me if the violent ones are left in prison. But the non-violent ones oughta be released. Same with gun owners. Only the violent ones should suffer any penalties.

What I'm really for is moving laws and their enforcement back to those laws that have victims when they are violated. Being a victim of your own law violation doesn't count. You can go buy a carp and slap yourself to death with it and that shouldn't end you up in jail.

Delrius_T:

That's pretty much it.

--

The opening post in this thread puts being against meth and for law enforcement in sort of a nutshell, implying you can't be for legalization of meth and for law enforcement at the same time. For the record, I don't have a problem with law enforcement, just the laws as they stand.

[Abndoc]

Invention 45. I am trying hard to understand your point of view. Are you in favor of the decriminalization of all drugs on the theory that you only hurt yourself? A victimless crime as it were?
Should pharmacy grade drugs be provided by a government program, regulated by them and users be registered? Or should these drugs continue to be supplied by street dealers and the consequences be ignored by law enforcement and society?
Our prisons are filled with two-bit pushers and users, but most have done other crimes as well to end up in there. Some of these crimes would not have occured if drugs were legal and available. But you know what? Some of them would have ocurred because of the drugs, even if they were legal or available. Just because some people remain functional addicts doe's not mean that it is a good thing. Ask the family of the man killed in Elk Grove by that meth addict if legalization would be a good thing. Go on, ask his kids too.

[Eghad]

I just recieved my copy of Unintended Consequences today and a flyer was included......

interesting stuff.

""Have you checked out... the endless loss of individual rights in the name of the drug war? When reformers point to the flaws and problems of the drug war, the warriors' answer is to do more of it. More money. More guns. More authoritarian control. Isn't that the response of all addicts?"

"Our police departments suffer corruption as a direct result of drug prohibition. The most obvious problem is that police officers can make big money dealing drugs, protecting drug dealers, or simply looking the other way. But drug prohibition also creates problems that aren't so obvious."

""Conservatives who care about the right to bear arms should also care about repealing drug prohibition. Besides the fact that prohibition drives the violence that's behind the sentiment to ban guns, drug prohibition and gun prohibition are rooted in the exact same social philosophy. Instead of regulating violent behavior, prohibitionists want to regulate inanimate objects. Historically, gun control is intimately linked to drug prohibition, as when alcohol prohibition led to the gangster violence, which became a pretext for passage of the 1934 National Firearms Act, the first federal gun legislation to apply to the general population. Liberals who are sensitive to the injustices of drug prohibition should also be wary of gun restrictions."

http://www.libertybill.net/dwa.html


What do you think?

He has hit the nail on the head about more authoritarian control.

[Big Ruger]

I agree that the war on drugs was and is feel good legislation, and virtually useless. However, to jump from there to saying no narcotics should be illegal is, in my mind not only ridiculous, but dangerous as well. Its funny I just had this debate with a coworker after we attended a clinic on meth lab ID. He's an old hippie from the days when you just smoked a joint, ate a sandwich and took a nap, and all was groovy. He made the same argument. Its all propaganda, they only use the most extreme examples,yadda yadda. I got to where I just figure the hell with it if you havent lived it you have zero clue as to the hell that is meth addiction. You think its all just a put on? By all means go ahead, but when it takes you down, or your kids and it WILL. Because you told them what the cops and others said was all BS. Well I hope you dont spend the rest of your life beating your head up against the wall because folks say AWW it aint that bad. That garbage is like the ring in Tolkiens books. It cannot be used for anything good or positive. I cannot speak on this anymore, it makes me sick ERIC

[seth]

I live in Hawaii---we have the worst ice (crystal meth) epidemic in the nation. Yes, on my island, in "paradise," we have a problem.

Motorcycle theft is the highest in the nation, and auto theft is right up there.

Legalizing meth isn't going to make the problems go away. It's just going to encourage those who already kill and steal to do more of these activities to support their habit, as I doubt with all the drug screening in Hawaii, that they would be able to get or keep a legitimate job.

The problem lies with people, and how they deal with their problems. Some people go dancing. Others go to the gym and lift weights. Yet others go out with their significant others and enjoy their company. Then there are people who don't know how to deal with their problems-- so they deal with it through alcohol, meth, or materialism-- all temporary band-aids for a wound that can only be healed from the inside out, and not vice versa.

CCW is illegal in Hawaii, we're #1 for ice epidemic, and there was recently a police officer who was covertly working with drug dealers to peddle ice across the island.

So if I'm ever approached by an addict, I either give him my money or he kills me. Or, he may kill me anyway, just so that I don't run and call the cops. Aggressively educating the public about meth's effects (brain damage, teeth falling out--- many people I know don't know this!) and stomping the drug dealers out of existence would be great.

Too bad my state is doing neither.

Like someone said before, this thing is a "scourge" to humanity, one of those things that turns ordinary people into mindless creatures. This is a societal issue IMHO more than an economic or physiological one. People need to be trained to realize that there are other ways to deal with the American work week and 50% divorce rate.