1st it was the Rossi fail, then the Para FTFs, now the 686. I have bad gun juju

TheFineLine · February 15, 2014, 09:51 PM

So my luck with firearms hasn't been the best lately. First it was my Mega Rossi Fail, then it was my Para fail and I wanted to keep the thread gun specific so I left out my Smith and Wesson 686 Plus Talo fail so here we go.

I've been looking into my next handgun purchase and I've pretty well decided on a mid to large frame revolver in 357. My pop is a big wheelgun guy so when we went out to the range on Thursday he brought a few. I narrowed it down to either a GP100 or the S&W+686 Talo. I like the grip on the Ruger better but I was significantly more accurate with the Talo. I will probably go 686 (not +) with the rubber grips. ANYWAY, while I was putting some 357s through the 686 I got a hot blast of air on my left cheek and something cut me. Small cut but cut. There were a few guys down the line to my left so I thought maybe it was a ricochet or a vigorously ejected cartridge. I continue going back and forth between the Ruger and the Smith and I get the hot gas on my cheek but no projectile. The rangemaster saw me flinch and came over and asked what was up. I wen't over what happened and he checked the timing and said it was strange but it seemed in time so gas shouldn't be coming back at me. I switch to offhand to keep the gas on my left and run some more rounds through it and lo and behold it locks up. I stopped shooting it and put it up. When I was cleaning it last night I start working the cylinder and sure enough it is out of time. The cylinder turns while cocking but doesn't quite click into place when the hammer does. After the hammer sets i can turn the cylinder slightly and then it clicks.

Is this common on new Smith and Wesson's? Everyone recommends pre-locks and I get it is because a revolver shouldn't have a lock but are the newer Smiths also having QC issues or is it just my bad gun juju lately?

pilpens · February 16, 2014, 08:35 AM

Sorry that you are having such bad luck.
S&W CS is very good.
My older pre-lock 686+ had timing issues after a year or 2 of ownership(2x). S&W fixed it with no questions. I had a 617 that had timing issues and S&W fixed it, too.
These were several years ago but I believe that their CS is as good as it was then or better.
I think the issues were from shooting fast DA. Now, I still shoot my 686+ fast which is now a DAO and I just accept the possible timing issue.
My other revolvers are treated with more gentleness.
====
If I am to get a new revovler now, I get the Ruger GP100 over the new S&W 686.
====

qwiksdraw · February 17, 2014, 08:34 AM

Note to self: Don't let TheFineLine use my guns.

Just kidding! You're going to learn a lot about handguns by the time you get all these resolved, so there will something good out of it.

Magnum Wheel Man · February 17, 2014, 12:15 PM

a TALO gun should get a little extra attention to detail... so it has to be you...

all kidding aside, I had a new S&W 610 that had unsafe head space ( according to S&W, they advised me not to shoot it ) yet I got it back from S&W service 2 times unchanged ( still unsafe to shoot ) after getting a hold of the area sales rep, & having him send a note along with my gun, I finally received it as I should have ( which all this took over 6 months to accomplish, after I paid for the gun, before I finally was able to shoot it )

so... they have their days apparently... it is however, now, one of my favorites...

rock185 · February 19, 2014, 01:22 AM

TheFineLine, I've owned S&Ws, purchased new, since the '60s and had much more trouble with the 1970s guns not carrying up properly, than with the later guns. I have owned multiple 686s, 686+s, a 586 and one 686SSR with the lock. The 686SSR , and all the others timed up/carried up properly. I did wear out my 1972 vintage Model 66. It developed excess end shake, went out of time/didn't carry up, etc. This resulted in shaving jacket material, spitting lead and feeling like a slap in the face when firing .357 ammo. The way I check carry up on S&W revolvers is by cocking the hammer very slowly as far back as necessary, revolver UNLOADED of course, for the cylinder stop to drop into each notch. If it does, I check with empty cases to see if it will do the same. If it does not, repair is indicated IMHO. Cocking the gun more quickly will cause the cylinder to appear to carry up due to inertia carrying it to lock up. This seems to be "good enough" for some folks, but not for this old guy. While I've owned S&W 19s, 66s, 27s, a 28, a Colt, Rugers, etc, the L-Frame 686s have become my favorite .357s, and I've had very good results over a lot of years with this model...ymmv

mes228 · February 19, 2014, 08:13 AM

This probably doesn't apply to your situation. Just as an aside, a revolver needs to be cocked from all the way down to full cock in one motion. If cocked from half cock or the loading position (on some revolvers) it can result in being out of time for that round.

Mobuck · February 20, 2014, 08:03 AM

OMG!!! A S&W that isn't a finely tuned precision piece of equipment??????????
I'll take my Rugers any day. They're expected to still work after being dropped and stepped on a few times(kind of a jump start of sorts).

KyJim · February 20, 2014, 05:30 PM

A seven shot revolver is an abomination.

Seriously, as Pilpens noted, there were reports of timing issues in the early 686+ models but I haven't heard of any issues in that regard for a long time, until today that is. Call SW for repairs.

TheFineLine · February 20, 2014, 11:54 PM

Pop is taking it out to his gunsmith to check it out this week. If its something that isn't easily fixed (I have no idea what's involved in fixing timing) he'll ship it on out to S&W.

I've decided I'm going to go with a 686. I haven't decided whether I want to go 6 or 7 rounds. It's going to be a sometimes carry gun and target shooter. Opinions?

Carmady · February 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

They had 7-shot .22s in the early 1900s, the S&W Lady Smith, the IJ 1900, the H&R 1906, Young America, and others.

Sevens · February 23, 2014, 01:52 PM

If you wanna see genuine bad juju on the subject of a Smith & Wesson 686, check out the experience of our own poster Japle.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...&highlight=686

Not cool at all.

As for what 686 that I believe you should get, if you are asking my opinion? I would say definitely get a pre-lock, 6-shot Model 686. Mine happens to be a dash-3 that I bought new in 1989. Expect to pay around $600 for a used one.

TheFineLine · March 7, 2014, 03:38 PM

I got the Para back in today. They adjusted the HD extractor and cut in a pre-ramp. We'll see how it shoots. Fingers crossed!

WESHOOT2 · March 7, 2014, 04:03 PM

We are fingering with you

1stmar · March 8, 2014, 03:08 AM

Agreed, fingers crossed keep us posted.

PetahW · March 8, 2014, 06:12 AM

.

OUCH ! !

I hate to say it, but maybe you ought to switch to archery.......

.

If it wasn't for bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck, at all.......

.

1stmar · March 11, 2014, 09:04 PM

Thefineline any update?

TheFineLine · March 12, 2014, 04:02 PM

I bought a new house last week and have been moving so I haven't had a chance to get it out to the range. The 686 is out at Smith and Wesson. I should get it out next week.

Broly · March 13, 2014, 03:28 PM

Hello FineLine.

I have the same gun as you and mine has been back to S&W as well. When I bought mine, the barrel was perfectly clocked with no cant whatsoever. However, I found that to get it to shoot center, I had to crank the rear sight blade all the way to one side.

Well I finally determined that the barrel was off-axis from the frame. In other words if you looked at the gun from the top, the barrel pointed noticeably to the left!

Well I contacted S&W and they said send it in right away and they would take care of it. I received it back 8 days later and the barrel was in straight alignment with the frame but it is now slightly canted! Anyhow it now shoots straight and I was able to bring the rear site blade back to center. The slight cant does not bother me as long as the gun shoots well.

As for the grips, I liked the look of them, but they really didn't fit my hand well. I've since replaced them with a set of Ahrends Retro Combats that are really nice.

Hope your 686 comes back right. I'm keeping my fingers crossed with the rest of the fine people here.

B.N.Real · March 15, 2014, 10:09 AM

WESHOOT2-"We are fingering with you." classic.

If you buy more then one gun, you are going to attract the gun gremlins at some time.

I once owned a used high standard (LOL!) 22 revolver that I really wanted to cut into pieces with sawsall.

(Insert sentence -in your mind only-with adjectives about said revolver that gets me banned from website)

But-I practically gave it away at a gun store some some other person could reuse the parts ( cause I made sure that was all that was left to use) .

Hope you can evict those gun gremlins.

They ain't no fun to play with.

WESHOOT2 · March 15, 2014, 01:31 PM

Thank you

TheFineLine · April 23, 2014, 11:51 AM

Update:

The Para came back. They cut in a pre-ramp into the frame, adjusted the HD extractor, and polished in a number of spots. I ran 150 rounds of three different manufacturers and it performed flawlessly. At 15 yards I was under 2 inches. It is smooth as butter. I love it!!!

The Smith came back. Turns out that the forcing cone was too long. It permanently damaged the cylinder. They cut the cone and replaced the cylinder. The barrel still cants slightly to the left but it is zeroed and performed flawlessly. I was as accurate with it as I was the Para. Loving it!!!

The Rossi came back. They polished out all of the scratches. It looks great. I haven't had a chance to shoot it. I will this week or next. We'll see how it goes. I'm hoping it'll run but with their history.......

PetahW · April 23, 2014, 05:33 PM

.

It sounds like it's time for you to buy that lottery ticket - it look's like it's YOUR day !

.

gyvel · April 25, 2014, 12:05 AM

Quote:

So my luck with firearms hasn't been the best lately.

Buy a new Remington R51 to round out the collection.

February 15, 2014, 09:51 PM	#1
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	1st it was the Rossi fail, then the Para FTFs, now the 686. I have bad gun juju So my luck with firearms hasn't been the best lately. First it was my Mega Rossi Fail, then it was my Para fail and I wanted to keep the thread gun specific so I left out my Smith and Wesson 686 Plus Talo fail so here we go. I've been looking into my next handgun purchase and I've pretty well decided on a mid to large frame revolver in 357. My pop is a big wheelgun guy so when we went out to the range on Thursday he brought a few. I narrowed it down to either a GP100 or the S&W+686 Talo. I like the grip on the Ruger better but I was significantly more accurate with the Talo. I will probably go 686 (not +) with the rubber grips. ANYWAY, while I was putting some 357s through the 686 I got a hot blast of air on my left cheek and something cut me. Small cut but cut. There were a few guys down the line to my left so I thought maybe it was a ricochet or a vigorously ejected cartridge. I continue going back and forth between the Ruger and the Smith and I get the hot gas on my cheek but no projectile. The rangemaster saw me flinch and came over and asked what was up. I wen't over what happened and he checked the timing and said it was strange but it seemed in time so gas shouldn't be coming back at me. I switch to offhand to keep the gas on my left and run some more rounds through it and lo and behold it locks up. I stopped shooting it and put it up. When I was cleaning it last night I start working the cylinder and sure enough it is out of time. The cylinder turns while cocking but doesn't quite click into place when the hammer does. After the hammer sets i can turn the cylinder slightly and then it clicks. Is this common on new Smith and Wesson's? Everyone recommends pre-locks and I get it is because a revolver shouldn't have a lock but are the newer Smiths also having QC issues or is it just my bad gun juju lately?

February 17, 2014, 12:15 PM	#4
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	a TALO gun should get a little extra attention to detail... so it has to be you... all kidding aside, I had a new S&W 610 that had unsafe head space ( according to S&W, they advised me not to shoot it ) yet I got it back from S&W service 2 times unchanged ( still unsafe to shoot ) after getting a hold of the area sales rep, & having him send a note along with my gun, I finally received it as I should have ( which all this took over 6 months to accomplish, after I paid for the gun, before I finally was able to shoot it ) so... they have their days apparently... it is however, now, one of my favorites... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

February 19, 2014, 01:22 AM	#5
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	TheFineLine, I've owned S&Ws, purchased new, since the '60s and had much more trouble with the 1970s guns not carrying up properly, than with the later guns. I have owned multiple 686s, 686+s, a 586 and one 686SSR with the lock. The 686SSR , and all the others timed up/carried up properly. I did wear out my 1972 vintage Model 66. It developed excess end shake, went out of time/didn't carry up, etc. This resulted in shaving jacket material, spitting lead and feeling like a slap in the face when firing .357 ammo. The way I check carry up on S&W revolvers is by cocking the hammer very slowly as far back as necessary, revolver UNLOADED of course, for the cylinder stop to drop into each notch. If it does, I check with empty cases to see if it will do the same. If it does not, repair is indicated IMHO. Cocking the gun more quickly will cause the cylinder to appear to carry up due to inertia carrying it to lock up. This seems to be "good enough" for some folks, but not for this old guy. While I've owned S&W 19s, 66s, 27s, a 28, a Colt, Rugers, etc, the L-Frame 686s have become my favorite .357s, and I've had very good results over a lot of years with this model...ymmv __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

February 19, 2014, 08:13 AM	#6
mes228 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2005 Posts: 628	Revolver This probably doesn't apply to your situation. Just as an aside, a revolver needs to be cocked from all the way down to full cock in one motion. If cocked from half cock or the loading position (on some revolvers) it can result in being out of time for that round.

February 23, 2014, 01:52 PM	#11
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	If you wanna see genuine bad juju on the subject of a Smith & Wesson 686, check out the experience of our own poster Japle. http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...&highlight=686 Not cool at all. As for what 686 that I believe you should get, if you are asking my opinion? I would say definitely get a pre-lock, 6-shot Model 686. Mine happens to be a dash-3 that I bought new in 1989. Expect to pay around $600 for a used one. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 16, 2014, 08:35 AM	#2
pilpens Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,696	Sorry that you are having such bad luck. S&W CS is very good. My older pre-lock 686+ had timing issues after a year or 2 of ownership(2x). S&W fixed it with no questions. I had a 617 that had timing issues and S&W fixed it, too. These were several years ago but I believe that their CS is as good as it was then or better. I think the issues were from shooting fast DA. Now, I still shoot my 686+ fast which is now a DAO and I just accept the possible timing issue. My other revolvers are treated with more gentleness. ==== If I am to get a new revovler now, I get the Ruger GP100 over the new S&W 686. ====

February 20, 2014, 08:03 AM	#7
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	OMG!!! A S&W that isn't a finely tuned precision piece of equipment?????????? I'll take my Rugers any day. They're expected to still work after being dropped and stepped on a few times(kind of a jump start of sorts).

February 20, 2014, 05:30 PM	#8
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	A seven shot revolver is an abomination. Seriously, as Pilpens noted, there were reports of timing issues in the early 686+ models but I haven't heard of any issues in that regard for a long time, until today that is. Call SW for repairs.

February 20, 2014, 11:54 PM	#9
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Pop is taking it out to his gunsmith to check it out this week. If its something that isn't easily fixed (I have no idea what's involved in fixing timing) he'll ship it on out to S&W. I've decided I'm going to go with a 686. I haven't decided whether I want to go 6 or 7 rounds. It's going to be a sometimes carry gun and target shooter. Opinions?

February 20, 2014, 11:57 PM	#10
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	They had 7-shot .22s in the early 1900s, the S&W Lady Smith, the IJ 1900, the H&R 1906, Young America, and others.

March 7, 2014, 03:38 PM	#12
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	I got the Para back in today. They adjusted the HD extractor and cut in a pre-ramp. We'll see how it shoots. Fingers crossed!

March 7, 2014, 04:03 PM	#13
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	We are fingering with you __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

March 8, 2014, 03:08 AM	#14
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Agreed, fingers crossed keep us posted.

March 8, 2014, 06:12 AM	#15
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. OUCH ! ! I hate to say it, but maybe you ought to switch to archery....... . If it wasn't for bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck, at all....... .

March 11, 2014, 09:04 PM	#16
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	Thefineline any update?

March 12, 2014, 04:02 PM	#17
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	I bought a new house last week and have been moving so I haven't had a chance to get it out to the range. The 686 is out at Smith and Wesson. I should get it out next week.

March 13, 2014, 03:28 PM	#18
Broly Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2013 Posts: 7	Hello FineLine. I have the same gun as you and mine has been back to S&W as well. When I bought mine, the barrel was perfectly clocked with no cant whatsoever. However, I found that to get it to shoot center, I had to crank the rear sight blade all the way to one side. Well I finally determined that the barrel was off-axis from the frame. In other words if you looked at the gun from the top, the barrel pointed noticeably to the left! Well I contacted S&W and they said send it in right away and they would take care of it. I received it back 8 days later and the barrel was in straight alignment with the frame but it is now slightly canted! Anyhow it now shoots straight and I was able to bring the rear site blade back to center. The slight cant does not bother me as long as the gun shoots well. As for the grips, I liked the look of them, but they really didn't fit my hand well. I've since replaced them with a set of Ahrends Retro Combats that are really nice. Hope your 686 comes back right. I'm keeping my fingers crossed with the rest of the fine people here.

March 15, 2014, 10:09 AM	#19
B.N.Real Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 4,092	WESHOOT2-"We are fingering with you." classic. If you buy more then one gun, you are going to attract the gun gremlins at some time. I once owned a used high standard (LOL!) 22 revolver that I really wanted to cut into pieces with sawsall. (Insert sentence -in your mind only-with adjectives about said revolver that gets me banned from website) But-I practically gave it away at a gun store some some other person could reuse the parts ( cause I made sure that was all that was left to use) . Hope you can evict those gun gremlins. They ain't no fun to play with.

March 15, 2014, 01:31 PM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	made up all by myself Thank you __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 23, 2014, 11:51 AM	#21
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Update: The Para came back. They cut in a pre-ramp into the frame, adjusted the HD extractor, and polished in a number of spots. I ran 150 rounds of three different manufacturers and it performed flawlessly. At 15 yards I was under 2 inches. It is smooth as butter. I love it!!! The Smith came back. Turns out that the forcing cone was too long. It permanently damaged the cylinder. They cut the cone and replaced the cylinder. The barrel still cants slightly to the left but it is zeroed and performed flawlessly. I was as accurate with it as I was the Para. Loving it!!! The Rossi came back. They polished out all of the scratches. It looks great. I haven't had a chance to shoot it. I will this week or next. We'll see how it goes. I'm hoping it'll run but with their history.......

April 23, 2014, 05:33 PM	#22
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. It sounds like it's time for you to buy that lottery ticket - it look's like it's YOUR day ! .