I just finished clearing my neighbor's yard with my 870.

MitchSchaft · June 30, 2002, 02:30 AM

Apparently they have a peeping tom of sorts.
Here's the story:
12:30am, I go to sit on my front porch to smoke a cigarette.
I see the lady across the street walking around the front of her house. She's a small, blonde lady in her mid 30s.
She yells over, "Have you seen anybody out here in front of my house?!"
I couldn't really hear her, so I walk over there and ask what the deal is.
She said she keeps hearing tapping on her bedroom window on the front of her house.
She said she thought she saw something move, too, so she came outside to check it out.
I told her I haven't seen anything, I just came outside.
Her husband isn't home and she has a couple little kids including a toddler in the house.
She thinks it might've been a cat.
I told her to keep her porch light on and I will keep an eye out for her.
I finish my cigarette, go back inside, and think nothing more of it.

12:45am - I hear my doorbell ring and figure it's her again.
It is her, she looks a little more worried this time.
She said she hear dsomething at the other window to her bedroom, this time on the side of her house.
She went to the window and threw open the curtains and saw the guy face to face!!! A younger looking black guy.

She said, "What are you doing?!"
He said, "uhh, uhh, I'm takin' a leak..."
She said, "Who are you?!"
He said his name.
She said, "Where do you live?!"
He told her, "Right down the street."
She told him to go away, then proceded to walk outside and check it out!
Luckily he was gone by the time she got out there.
That's when she came and rang my doorbell.
She told me the story and I said we're going to call the cops.
I told her to come up. She called her husband, and talked to him for a minute. They decided not to call the cops...

Apparently her husband was at a bar right down the street. They didn't want to take the chance in the cops seeing him walk home and being picked up for public intoxication?

Ok...

They don't have any guns in the house either...
I don't like the idea of a "peeping tom" walking around my neighborhood at 1am, so I decide to go and case their yard with my 870 12gauge. Plus, I wanted the racking of the pump to be a deterant, if he was to hear it. So, I grab a pocket full of #6 shot shells, walk outside, load it up, rack the slide, take my maglite and check their yard out. I went all through the outside, backyard, side yard and didn't see nor hear anything. We hang out for a while outside, and that was the end of it...
I don't know what I would've done if I actually saw the guy out there. I just wanted the shotgun to be more of a deterance.
I'm kind of pissed that they didn't want to call the cops, but whatever suits them I guess.

Blackhawk · June 30, 2002, 02:45 AM

Wouldn't have done that....

Where I live, even showing a firearm is "using lethal force" and you'd better have a "reasonable belief" that the leaker, peeper, whatever, endangered you or your neighbor.

The sot could have taken a taxi home, and neither he nor she was worried enough to call the cops.

MitchSchaft · June 30, 2002, 02:53 AM

Yeah, I'm not gonna do that again. Especially since they weren't worried enough to call the cops. I just had my wife on my mind and was putting myself in my neighbor's shoes. I was worried about it happening to my house as well. That was my first time to have an experience lik that. Hopefully my wife won't think her world is so blissful anymore.

Libertarian · June 30, 2002, 03:04 AM

This is going to sound stupid but here goes anyway:

If you are not a cop, you are not a cop. You have no legal standing to be "clearing" a neighbor's yard in the dark. If you had shot the guy, you'd have been in the 'splaining room for a long time.

I'd have gone over to her house and sat on the front porch with her. Then, when hubby shows up, call the police.

Just because we have guns does not mean we are the Lone Ranger. Unless there is a total break-down in society (LA riots) or you are in your own home. How often do we discuss the shop owner who runs after the BG and shoots him in the back, outside the shop? How many here say he is in deep kimshee?

You made a bad discision and should reconsider your options next time it happens.

publius42 · June 30, 2002, 06:31 AM

Prowling around with a shotgun, especially if you don't plan on using it, is not the thing to do. Maybe you could suggest to her that she acquire an 870 herself. I've got one, and it makes the "wrong house" sound just fine when you rack it. No need to even throw open the drapes to get your message across.

dinosaur · June 30, 2002, 06:42 AM

Too many variables here. What if another neighbor sees you with the shotgun and has no problem dialing 911?

Are you sure she wasn`t just lonely?

Hubby in the bar til all hours. You might be better looking than the local gendarmes. Watch your six especially since you`re married.

BigG · June 30, 2002, 07:04 AM

Hmmm. Dinosaur may have sumpin there.

**Mike Irwin** · June 30, 2002, 07:37 AM

Hubby at bar, woman walks outside to check out a prowler, he doesn't want to call the cops for a prowler because he doesn't want to get nicked for public drunkeness...

Let me guess. They people aren't exactly rocket scientists, are they?

I sincerely doubt that Mr. Yard Prowler was taking a leak, either. Who walks right up to the window of an occupied house to take a leaK?

Unless he was at the same bar as the hubby.

Hal · June 30, 2002, 08:35 AM

Motion detector flood lights are a wonderful deterrent.
@ less than $50.00 they're a real good deal. As a concerned neighbor, you might want to consider buying a couple of sets of them for your neighbor.

What's that? You don't want to spend $100.00 for your neighbor's peace of mind and security? I'm a bit confused here. Why in heaven's name not? You already admitted you're willing to spend several thousand dollars on legal fees. I'd think $100.00 would be just pocket change at this point.

Ok, so I'm being more than a little facetious. The reality is though, there were so many things that could have gone South here, it's hard to know where to start. How do you know it wasn't just a ruse to get YOU away from your house for instance?

Here's some things that bug me about her. She's got kids in the house. One's a toddler. All the headlines recently about the girl that was snatched from her room, and she leaves the kids alone to run across the street? That don't add up to being on the straight and narrow to me. And what's the deal about not wanting to call the cops? Sounds to me like she may not have wanted the cops poking around the house for some reason,,,maybe like she had something in there she didn't want them to *see in plain sight*. Then there's Poppa dear. That's one lame excuse if I've ever heard one. Sounds like Poppa may have been down at the corner doin a little "bizness" and didn't want to risk being caught with his inventory.

stevetuna · June 30, 2002, 09:08 AM

Pretty charming that while mommy is home with a houseful of kids, daddy is drinking his paycheck away down the street. Dino may have a point... Something in this story just doesn't add - the peeper gave the lady his name? He stuck around to talk with her? Hmmmmm...

C.R.Sam · June 30, 2002, 11:37 AM

Lot of things that could be sour here.
Most of them were.

Think I would have set with her on MY porch while waiting for the cops. If she would go for that. If not......maby wise to disassociate.

Sam

Merkava · June 30, 2002, 12:15 PM

What if you saw the guy @_@ in the window...yell "Freeze Mofo!" Then he says "F/Off and starts walking away...you can't shoot him. And if some physical confrontation ensued and you did shoot him the fact that you were there with a gun wouldn't auger well in criminal or civil court as it was predicate to the escalation of the scenario. (Btw am not flaming you at all, just my opinion).

Thats what 911 is for. Remember the case of the Japanese student in Lousiana that got shot by the homeowner in his garage when he was looking for the house with the Halloween party? Now one could argue an attached garage is part of your home and such - on the other hand, again thats what the cops are for. You think there's an intruder there while you are still secure behind the doors of the home proper...call the cops. Its one thing if he is kicking down the door to the home, then fire away - I am sure this guy wished he had just called the police instead of grab the .44 magnum and go into that garage.

If trouble comes to us thats one thing - no need to seek it out (now I'm ponitificating legally, nor morally!)

MitchSchaft · June 30, 2002, 12:21 PM

Quote:

You made a bad discision and should reconsider your options next time it happens.

I'm definately not gonna do that again.

MeekAndMild · June 30, 2002, 01:01 PM

I dunno, something fishy here. Maybe he is retarded or mentally deficient in some other way. Thought I'd mention it as a possibility. I used to live in a burb in Tennessee and there was a Downs boy who lived across the street who used to get into trouble from time to time. Biggest PITA I'd met in a while and the cops would do nothing about him.

Might drop in to say hello to his mom, welcome her to the neighborhood and ask about him in a neighborly way and if he is deficient warn her that he's been seen in the neighborhood peeping in windows. Then if it happens again call adult protective services or whoever does the equivalant in your state rather than the cops.

Better than going chasing him through the bushes at night with a loaded gun on somebody elses property with her husband away.

Zander · June 30, 2002, 01:17 PM

Take the middle ground.

Secure your handgun carry permit [if you don't have it already] and walk your neighborhood while you smoke. I find a small Pelican flashlight handy, too, when I'm walking the dogs. Have a cell phone with you. Don't be bashful about calling the cavalry.

Great way to get to know your neighborhhod, your neighbors and what belongs to whom.

MitchSchaft · June 30, 2002, 03:24 PM

Would that have been a situation where I could've called 911 or just the cops? Nobody's life was in immediate danger, so I hesitated about the 911 deal.

M1911 · June 30, 2002, 08:41 PM

She might not wanted to have called 911, but that's no reason why you couldn't have done it for her.

Head on out into the darkness with my 870, after an unknown number of goblins who may or may not be armed? No thank you. I'd stay in my own house, than you very much. The neighbor would be more than welcome to round up the kiddies and join me there while we all wait for the police.

Head out BY MYSELF, in the dark, looking for Mr. Goblin? N.F. way.

M1911

MitchSchaft · June 30, 2002, 10:08 PM

Yeah, hinde sight is 20/20. I won't do that again, for sure. I posted this here to get you guys' point of view and I appreciate the honesty.

TexasVet · June 30, 2002, 11:45 PM

Libertarian (from San Antone) says: "If you are not a cop, you are not a cop. You have no legal standing to be "clearing" a neighbor's yard in the dark. If you had shot the guy, you'd have been in the 'splaining room for a long time."

However, Texas law says: PC 9.42 - A person is justified in using deadly force against another... (2)(A) to prevent the other's imminent commision of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nightime or criminal mischief during the nighttime.
Followed by the "reasonable man" rule. Which, by the way, is MUCH more tolerant of deadly force in Texas than some have stated here. And "peeping tom" falls under the "criminal mischief" part.
Are you sure you are a Libertarian ? And a Texan?

jimpeel · July 1, 2002, 12:00 AM

I've done pretty much the same thing but the perp was there.

I threw down on a peeper at my neighbor's house one night and put him in a felony prone. Then I knocked on the side of the house and told her to call the cops. This she did.

She then comes outside as he is telling me "She knows me."

She starts screaming "It was YOU we saw at the window the other night!"

It turns out he is the neighbor from the house behind hers which shares a common property. That is one of the keys to this mess, by the way. He was on the common grounds of the property -- which includes the trash can he was standing on to peer into her window.

I ask her if she wants to press charges against the guy and she says "No."

I ask her if she is positive that she does not want to press charges against this man. She says "Yes."

At this, I tell him to get up and get in his house, she walks back into hers, and I am left standing there with a loaded revolver in my hand and sirens fast approaching. Did I mention that this is in Long Beach, CA?

I unload my piece and set it on the ground between my feet as the local gendarmarie arrives and they ask "Do you have a suspect under arrest?"

I answer "I did, but I had to let him go."

The cop says "You let him go? Why?"

"I asked the woman if she wanted to press charges and she said 'No' so it would have been unlawful detention to hold him further. Besides, he lives here."

The cop discusses this with the other cops who have arrived and asks "Is that yours", indicating the revolver, to which I replied "Yes". He says "I'll hang on to it" and I said "Okay".

In the meantime the other cops have rousted the guy, his extremely good-looking wife and, God help him, his Mother-in-Law out of bed and want to know what happened. He denies everything but has to go out and retreive his shoes from the driveway where he took them off to be more sneaky.

The cops come back to me and one of them tells me that it would be pretty sad if I had shot a peeper accidentally; and I assure him that that would have been impossible because I don't cock my weapon and only shoot double action. He is pleased to hear that. He hands me back my revolver, they continue to scold the peeper, everybody goes home.

This has just been the jist of the incident. I left out the boring dialogue on what brought him to my attention and the part about what happened when her husband got home. The point was that everyone acted professionally and there was no problem with what I did; not even in Long Beach, CA.

I also found the answer to the question everyone asks themselves; "Could I?"

Yep.

MitchSchaft · July 1, 2002, 01:25 AM

Quote:

A private citizen, in making an arrest authorized by law, may use force reasonably necessary to accomplish the arrest of an individual who flees or resists the arrest; provided, that a private citizen cannot use or threaten to use deadly force except to the extent authorized under self-defense or defense of third person statutes, §§ 39-11-611 and 39-11-612.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]

http://198.187.128.12/tennessee/lpex...s-main.htm&2.0

Quote:

39-11-611. Self-defense.

Quote:

39-11-612. Defense of third person.

A person is justified in threatening or using force against another to protect a third person if:

(1) Under the circumstances as the person reasonably believes them to be, the person would be justified under § 39-11-611 in threatening or using force to protect against the use or attempted use of unlawful force reasonably believed to be threatening the third person sought to be protected; and

(2) The person reasonably believes that the intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The person must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury must be real, or honestly believed to be real at the time, and must be founded upon reasonable grounds. There is no duty to retreat before a person threatens or uses force.

(b) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within the person's own residence is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury to self, family or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

(c) The threat or use of force against another is not justified if the person consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other individual.

(d) The threat or use of force against another is not justified if the person provoked the other individual's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:

(1) The person abandons the encounter or clearly communicates to the other the intent to do so; and

(2) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the person.

(e) The threat or use of force against another is not justified to resist a halt at a roadblock, arrest, search, or stop and frisk that the person knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, unless:

(1) The law enforcement officer uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest, search, stop and frisk, or halt; and

(2) The person reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary to protect against the law enforcement officer's use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1030, § 8.]

MitchSchaft · July 1, 2002, 01:40 AM

Quote:

39-11-614. Protection of property.

(a) A person in lawful possession of real or personal property is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the degree it is reasonably believed the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

(b) A person who has been unlawfully dispossessed of real or personal property is justified in threatening or using force against the other when and to the degree it is reasonably believed the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the person threatens or uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession; and:

(1) The person reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when the other dispossessed the person; and

(2) The other accomplished the dispossession by threatening or using force against the person.

(c) A person is not justified in using deadly force to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on real estate or unlawful interference with personal property.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]

Gary H · July 1, 2002, 01:53 AM

Maybe this woman needs some educational material regarding self-protection. Unless she enjoys the helpless routine, she might be somewhat receptive to a few choice URL's. Of course, I'm assuming that she isn't fishing for a hubby replacement that stays out of bars.

I would not have gone out with a gun of any sort. Should you actually fire your weapon, the D.A. could make the case that you went out looking for trouble. That would be very hard to defend in California. Maybe it would pass muster in another state.

justice4all · July 1, 2002, 01:02 PM

To reiterste what Sam said, "disassociate."
These are not the kind of people you want to stick your neck out for.

roxygss · July 1, 2002, 01:25 PM

He could be mentally handicapped !
He could just be lost!
Maybe he really was just pissing !

HUH ??????????????

Its past midnight and he is pissing with his face next to my bedroom window ???

Only STUPID and EVIL people would do that. The stupid one has got to be crude to piss under someones window and the evil one is looking for a place to break in so he can rape and kill your kids.!!

But by all means... lets give him the benefit of the doubt ... ..cause ya know.. he may just want to rob you and tie you up and not kill you..... so be careful not to hurt him... you may get sued.

June 30, 2002, 02:30 AM	#1
MitchSchaft Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Posts: 1,197	I just finished clearing my neighbor's yard with my 870. Apparently they have a peeping tom of sorts. Here's the story: 12:30am, I go to sit on my front porch to smoke a cigarette. I see the lady across the street walking around the front of her house. She's a small, blonde lady in her mid 30s. She yells over, "Have you seen anybody out here in front of my house?!" I couldn't really hear her, so I walk over there and ask what the deal is. She said she keeps hearing tapping on her bedroom window on the front of her house. She said she thought she saw something move, too, so she came outside to check it out. I told her I haven't seen anything, I just came outside. Her husband isn't home and she has a couple little kids including a toddler in the house. She thinks it might've been a cat. I told her to keep her porch light on and I will keep an eye out for her. I finish my cigarette, go back inside, and think nothing more of it. 12:45am - I hear my doorbell ring and figure it's her again. It is her, she looks a little more worried this time. She said she hear dsomething at the other window to her bedroom, this time on the side of her house. She went to the window and threw open the curtains and saw the guy face to face!!! A younger looking black guy. She said, "What are you doing?!" He said, "uhh, uhh, I'm takin' a leak..." She said, "Who are you?!" He said his name. She said, "Where do you live?!" He told her, "Right down the street." She told him to go away, then proceded to walk outside and check it out! Luckily he was gone by the time she got out there. That's when she came and rang my doorbell. She told me the story and I said we're going to call the cops. I told her to come up. She called her husband, and talked to him for a minute. They decided not to call the cops... Apparently her husband was at a bar right down the street. They didn't want to take the chance in the cops seeing him walk home and being picked up for public intoxication? Ok... They don't have any guns in the house either... I don't like the idea of a "peeping tom" walking around my neighborhood at 1am, so I decide to go and case their yard with my 870 12gauge. Plus, I wanted the racking of the pump to be a deterant, if he was to hear it. So, I grab a pocket full of #6 shot shells, walk outside, load it up, rack the slide, take my maglite and check their yard out. I went all through the outside, backyard, side yard and didn't see nor hear anything. We hang out for a while outside, and that was the end of it... I don't know what I would've done if I actually saw the guy out there. I just wanted the shotgun to be more of a deterance. I'm kind of pissed that they didn't want to call the cops, but whatever suits them I guess.

June 30, 2002, 07:37 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	Hubby at bar, woman walks outside to check out a prowler, he doesn't want to call the cops for a prowler because he doesn't want to get nicked for public drunkeness... Let me guess. They people aren't exactly rocket scientists, are they? I sincerely doubt that Mr. Yard Prowler was taking a leak, either. Who walks right up to the window of an occupied house to take a leaK? Unless he was at the same bar as the hubby. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 1, 2002, 01:25 PM	#25
roxygss Member Join Date: December 4, 2001 Location: utah Posts: 38	huh? He could be mentally handicapped ! He could just be lost! Maybe he really was just pissing ! HUH ?????????????? Its past midnight and he is pissing with his face next to my bedroom window ??? Only STUPID and EVIL people would do that. The stupid one has got to be crude to piss under someones window and the evil one is looking for a place to break in so he can rape and kill your kids.!! But by all means... lets give him the benefit of the doubt ... ..cause ya know.. he may just want to rob you and tie you up and not kill you..... so be careful not to hurt him... you may get sued.

June 30, 2002, 02:45 AM	#2
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	Wouldn't have done that.... Where I live, even showing a firearm is "using lethal force" and you'd better have a "reasonable belief" that the leaker, peeper, whatever, endangered you or your neighbor. The sot could have taken a taxi home, and neither he nor she was worried enough to call the cops.

June 30, 2002, 02:53 AM	#3
MitchSchaft Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Posts: 1,197	Yeah, I'm not gonna do that again. Especially since they weren't worried enough to call the cops. I just had my wife on my mind and was putting myself in my neighbor's shoes. I was worried about it happening to my house as well. That was my first time to have an experience lik that. Hopefully my wife won't think her world is so blissful anymore.

June 30, 2002, 03:04 AM	#4
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	This is going to sound stupid but here goes anyway: If you are not a cop, you are not a cop. You have no legal standing to be "clearing" a neighbor's yard in the dark. If you had shot the guy, you'd have been in the 'splaining room for a long time. I'd have gone over to her house and sat on the front porch with her. Then, when hubby shows up, call the police. Just because we have guns does not mean we are the Lone Ranger. Unless there is a total break-down in society (LA riots) or you are in your own home. How often do we discuss the shop owner who runs after the BG and shoots him in the back, outside the shop? How many here say he is in deep kimshee? You made a bad discision and should reconsider your options next time it happens.

June 30, 2002, 06:31 AM	#5
publius42 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Posts: 1,936	Prowling around with a shotgun, especially if you don't plan on using it, is not the thing to do. Maybe you could suggest to her that she acquire an 870 herself. I've got one, and it makes the "wrong house" sound just fine when you rack it. No need to even throw open the drapes to get your message across.

June 30, 2002, 06:42 AM	#6
dinosaur Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: NE Pa. Posts: 1,245	Too many variables here. What if another neighbor sees you with the shotgun and has no problem dialing 911? Are you sure she wasn`t just lonely? Hubby in the bar til all hours. You might be better looking than the local gendarmes. Watch your six especially since you`re married.

June 30, 2002, 07:04 AM	#7
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Hmmm. Dinosaur may have sumpin there.

June 30, 2002, 08:35 AM	#9
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,564	Motion detector flood lights are a wonderful deterrent. @ less than $50.00 they're a real good deal. As a concerned neighbor, you might want to consider buying a couple of sets of them for your neighbor. What's that? You don't want to spend $100.00 for your neighbor's peace of mind and security? I'm a bit confused here. Why in heaven's name not? You already admitted you're willing to spend several thousand dollars on legal fees. I'd think $100.00 would be just pocket change at this point. Ok, so I'm being more than a little facetious. The reality is though, there were so many things that could have gone South here, it's hard to know where to start. How do you know it wasn't just a ruse to get YOU away from your house for instance? Here's some things that bug me about her. She's got kids in the house. One's a toddler. All the headlines recently about the girl that was snatched from her room, and she leaves the kids alone to run across the street? That don't add up to being on the straight and narrow to me. And what's the deal about not wanting to call the cops? Sounds to me like she may not have wanted the cops poking around the house for some reason,,,maybe like she had something in there she didn't want them to see in plain sight. Then there's Poppa dear. That's one lame excuse if I've ever heard one. Sounds like Poppa may have been down at the corner doin a little "bizness" and didn't want to risk being caught with his inventory.

June 30, 2002, 09:08 AM	#10
stevetuna Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2001 Location: Nantucket, MA Posts: 258	Pretty charming that while mommy is home with a houseful of kids, daddy is drinking his paycheck away down the street. Dino may have a point... Something in this story just doesn't add - the peeper gave the lady his name? He stuck around to talk with her? Hmmmmm...

June 30, 2002, 11:37 AM	#11
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Lot of things that could be sour here. Most of them were. Think I would have set with her on MY porch while waiting for the cops. If she would go for that. If not......maby wise to disassociate. Sam

June 30, 2002, 12:15 PM	#12
Merkava Junior member Join Date: June 17, 2002 Posts: 111	What if you saw the guy @_@ in the window...yell "Freeze Mofo!" Then he says "F/Off and starts walking away...you can't shoot him. And if some physical confrontation ensued and you did shoot him the fact that you were there with a gun wouldn't auger well in criminal or civil court as it was predicate to the escalation of the scenario. (Btw am not flaming you at all, just my opinion). Thats what 911 is for. Remember the case of the Japanese student in Lousiana that got shot by the homeowner in his garage when he was looking for the house with the Halloween party? Now one could argue an attached garage is part of your home and such - on the other hand, again thats what the cops are for. You think there's an intruder there while you are still secure behind the doors of the home proper...call the cops. Its one thing if he is kicking down the door to the home, then fire away - I am sure this guy wished he had just called the police instead of grab the .44 magnum and go into that garage. If trouble comes to us thats one thing - no need to seek it out (now I'm ponitificating legally, nor morally!)

June 30, 2002, 01:01 PM	#14
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	I dunno, something fishy here. Maybe he is retarded or mentally deficient in some other way. Thought I'd mention it as a possibility. I used to live in a burb in Tennessee and there was a Downs boy who lived across the street who used to get into trouble from time to time. Biggest PITA I'd met in a while and the cops would do nothing about him. Might drop in to say hello to his mom, welcome her to the neighborhood and ask about him in a neighborly way and if he is deficient warn her that he's been seen in the neighborhood peeping in windows. Then if it happens again call adult protective services or whoever does the equivalant in your state rather than the cops. Better than going chasing him through the bushes at night with a loaded gun on somebody elses property with her husband away.

June 30, 2002, 01:17 PM	#15
Zander Junior member Join Date: December 11, 2000 Location: Middle and East Tennessee, USA Posts: 2,059	Take the middle ground. Secure your handgun carry permit [if you don't have it already] and walk your neighborhood while you smoke. I find a small Pelican flashlight handy, too, when I'm walking the dogs. Have a cell phone with you. Don't be bashful about calling the cavalry. Great way to get to know your neighborhhod, your neighbors and what belongs to whom.

June 30, 2002, 03:24 PM	#16
MitchSchaft Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Posts: 1,197	Would that have been a situation where I could've called 911 or just the cops? Nobody's life was in immediate danger, so I hesitated about the 911 deal.

June 30, 2002, 08:41 PM	#17
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	She might not wanted to have called 911, but that's no reason why you couldn't have done it for her. Head on out into the darkness with my 870, after an unknown number of goblins who may or may not be armed? No thank you. I'd stay in my own house, than you very much. The neighbor would be more than welcome to round up the kiddies and join me there while we all wait for the police. Head out BY MYSELF, in the dark, looking for Mr. Goblin? N.F. way. M1911

June 30, 2002, 10:08 PM	#18
MitchSchaft Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Posts: 1,197	Yeah, hinde sight is 20/20. I won't do that again, for sure. I posted this here to get you guys' point of view and I appreciate the honesty.

June 30, 2002, 11:45 PM	#19
TexasVet Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2000 Location: DeepEastTexas Posts: 1,096	Libertarian (from San Antone) says: "If you are not a cop, you are not a cop. You have no legal standing to be "clearing" a neighbor's yard in the dark. If you had shot the guy, you'd have been in the 'splaining room for a long time." However, Texas law says: PC 9.42 - A person is justified in using deadly force against another... (2)(A) to prevent the other's imminent commision of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nightime or criminal mischief during the nighttime. Followed by the "reasonable man" rule. Which, by the way, is MUCH more tolerant of deadly force in Texas than some have stated here. And "peeping tom" falls under the "criminal mischief" part. Are you sure you are a Libertarian ? And a Texan?

July 1, 2002, 12:00 AM	#20
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,530	I've done pretty much the same thing but the perp was there. I threw down on a peeper at my neighbor's house one night and put him in a felony prone. Then I knocked on the side of the house and told her to call the cops. This she did. She then comes outside as he is telling me "She knows me." She starts screaming "It was YOU we saw at the window the other night!" It turns out he is the neighbor from the house behind hers which shares a common property. That is one of the keys to this mess, by the way. He was on the common grounds of the property -- which includes the trash can he was standing on to peer into her window. I ask her if she wants to press charges against the guy and she says "No." I ask her if she is positive that she does not want to press charges against this man. She says "Yes." At this, I tell him to get up and get in his house, she walks back into hers, and I am left standing there with a loaded revolver in my hand and sirens fast approaching. Did I mention that this is in Long Beach, CA? I unload my piece and set it on the ground between my feet as the local gendarmarie arrives and they ask "Do you have a suspect under arrest?" I answer "I did, but I had to let him go." The cop says "You let him go? Why?" "I asked the woman if she wanted to press charges and she said 'No' so it would have been unlawful detention to hold him further. Besides, he lives here." The cop discusses this with the other cops who have arrived and asks "Is that yours", indicating the revolver, to which I replied "Yes". He says "I'll hang on to it" and I said "Okay". In the meantime the other cops have rousted the guy, his extremely good-looking wife and, God help him, his Mother-in-Law out of bed and want to know what happened. He denies everything but has to go out and retreive his shoes from the driveway where he took them off to be more sneaky. The cops come back to me and one of them tells me that it would be pretty sad if I had shot a peeper accidentally; and I assure him that that would have been impossible because I don't cock my weapon and only shoot double action. He is pleased to hear that. He hands me back my revolver, they continue to scold the peeper, everybody goes home. This has just been the jist of the incident. I left out the boring dialogue on what brought him to my attention and the part about what happened when her husband got home. The point was that everyone acted professionally and there was no problem with what I did; not even in Long Beach, CA. I also found the answer to the question everyone asks themselves; "Could I?" Yep.

July 1, 2002, 01:53 AM	#23
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Maybe this woman needs some educational material regarding self-protection. Unless she enjoys the helpless routine, she might be somewhat receptive to a few choice URL's. Of course, I'm assuming that she isn't fishing for a hubby replacement that stays out of bars. I would not have gone out with a gun of any sort. Should you actually fire your weapon, the D.A. could make the case that you went out looking for trouble. That would be very hard to defend in California. Maybe it would pass muster in another state.

July 1, 2002, 01:02 PM	#24
justice4all Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Grand Junction, CO Posts: 327	To reiterste what Sam said, "disassociate." These are not the kind of people you want to stick your neck out for.