45-70 reload with a round nose

Randyralph · December 30, 2008, 09:34 PM

Good day all, has anyone here ever use a round nose bullet in a lever gun before. I have a 385 grain round nose mould, and I was wondering if it will be ok in a 45-70 lever gun. Thanks for all your help.
Randy

**Unclenick** · December 30, 2008, 11:58 PM

If you seat it to the right length and load and shoot one-at-a-time, you will be fine. The only reason for flat noses is so they can't poke the primer of the next round in the magazine under recoil. You can also file a small flat on each bullet for insurance without any significant affect on accuracy. Guys used to cut a piece of pipe to slip over each round to file them flat to the same degree. They were trying to improve destructive performance on game, but you can use the method. Compare single loaded round nose accuracy to the ones with flats if you are worried about adverse ballistic effects.

flashhole · December 31, 2008, 09:06 AM

It depends on the radius of curvature of the nose. Hornady makes a wonderful 350 grain round nose bullet specifically designed for tubular magazine rifles. I shoot it in my lever action Guide Gun.

Randyralph · December 31, 2008, 08:20 PM

Flashole,
It is a lyman mold, mold #457124. I'm thinking it maybe ok to shoot, because in my 30-30 I use round nose bullet it it, but it does not have the recoil of a 45-70.
Thanks for your imput.

zxcvbob · December 31, 2008, 08:27 PM

I *think* round nosed lead bullets should be OK, but I'm not an expert. I would not trust a round nosed FMJ bullet unless you load them 1 or 2 at a time (one in the chamber, one in the magazine tube.)

**Unclenick** · December 31, 2008, 09:30 PM

It depends on the radius. If you are seating primers below flush with the casehead by 0.004" as the Forster seater forces them to do, you will probably be OK, but it still depends on the radius of the bullet and how hot you load. You can use CCI #34 military hardness primers for some extra insurance.

I am circumspect about this because of the .45-70 recoil. I notice that Garrett ammunition, which makes heavier loadings of this cartridge for the Marlin 1895 and Ruger #1 and some others they list, uses cases specially made for them by Starline with a small rifle primer pocket. That minimizes the chance of bullet nose contact under the heavy recoil. They do that for all their .45-70 ammo, including for their cast flat nose bullets.

M.L. McPherson had a cartridge ignition in a magazine a couple years back and wrote it up in Precision Shooting. It was in an 1895 in cold weather, and he was wearing gloves which helped him fail to notice the last round didn't quite get in to the point the loading gate completely closed. He already had one in the chamber and was topping the tube up. So the cartridge was tipped a bit and the edge of its flat bullet meplat was resting on the primer. That was enough to set it off. M.L. McPherson loads hot, but that may or may not have been a requirement.

I look at the cost of the bullets vs. the cost of a new magazine for the broken gun. That part was all M.L. McPherson had break, since the smokeless powder didn't burn all that well after the bullet got out; black powder would be more problematic, though. I don't really see a benefit to conducting the experiment at that cost.

Harold Vaughn did a bunch of experiments intentionally filing slants onto bullet noses. It is remarkable how little difference it made to group size. As Harry Pope said, the base steers the bullet. You won't affect much taking a couple quick swipes with a file, and it buys you a good bit of peace of mind (or, at least, it would me).

December 30, 2008, 11:58 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,130	If you seat it to the right length and load and shoot one-at-a-time, you will be fine. The only reason for flat noses is so they can't poke the primer of the next round in the magazine under recoil. You can also file a small flat on each bullet for insurance without any significant affect on accuracy. Guys used to cut a piece of pipe to slip over each round to file them flat to the same degree. They were trying to improve destructive performance on game, but you can use the method. Compare single loaded round nose accuracy to the ones with flats if you are worried about adverse ballistic effects. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 31, 2008, 08:27 PM	#5
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I think round nosed lead bullets should be OK, but I'm not an expert. I would not trust a round nosed FMJ bullet unless you load them 1 or 2 at a time (one in the chamber, one in the magazine tube.) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

December 31, 2008, 09:30 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,130	It depends on the radius. If you are seating primers below flush with the casehead by 0.004" as the Forster seater forces them to do, you will probably be OK, but it still depends on the radius of the bullet and how hot you load. You can use CCI #34 military hardness primers for some extra insurance. I am circumspect about this because of the .45-70 recoil. I notice that Garrett ammunition, which makes heavier loadings of this cartridge for the Marlin 1895 and Ruger #1 and some others they list, uses cases specially made for them by Starline with a small rifle primer pocket. That minimizes the chance of bullet nose contact under the heavy recoil. They do that for all their .45-70 ammo, including for their cast flat nose bullets. M.L. McPherson had a cartridge ignition in a magazine a couple years back and wrote it up in Precision Shooting. It was in an 1895 in cold weather, and he was wearing gloves which helped him fail to notice the last round didn't quite get in to the point the loading gate completely closed. He already had one in the chamber and was topping the tube up. So the cartridge was tipped a bit and the edge of its flat bullet meplat was resting on the primer. That was enough to set it off. M.L. McPherson loads hot, but that may or may not have been a requirement. I look at the cost of the bullets vs. the cost of a new magazine for the broken gun. That part was all M.L. McPherson had break, since the smokeless powder didn't burn all that well after the bullet got out; black powder would be more problematic, though. I don't really see a benefit to conducting the experiment at that cost. Harold Vaughn did a bunch of experiments intentionally filing slants onto bullet noses. It is remarkable how little difference it made to group size. As Harry Pope said, the base steers the bullet. You won't affect much taking a couple quick swipes with a file, and it buys you a good bit of peace of mind (or, at least, it would me). __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 30, 2008, 09:34 PM	#1
Randyralph Member Join Date: November 13, 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 66	45-70 reload with a round nose Good day all, has anyone here ever use a round nose bullet in a lever gun before. I have a 385 grain round nose mould, and I was wondering if it will be ok in a 45-70 lever gun. Thanks for all your help. Randy

December 31, 2008, 09:06 AM	#3
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	It depends on the radius of curvature of the nose. Hornady makes a wonderful 350 grain round nose bullet specifically designed for tubular magazine rifles. I shoot it in my lever action Guide Gun. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

December 31, 2008, 08:20 PM	#4
Randyralph Member Join Date: November 13, 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 66	Flashole, It is a lyman mold, mold #457124. I'm thinking it maybe ok to shoot, because in my 30-30 I use round nose bullet it it, but it does not have the recoil of a 45-70. Thanks for your imput.