Where has the ACCURACY gone????

ppcmaster · August 29, 2006, 10:28 AM

Hello everyone, Just on a rant today sorry. I was at a few matches over the past few weekends, IPSC and GSSF specifically. I WAS interested in shooting these disciplines until I watched the matches. The only thing I can say is "WHERE HAS THE ACCURACY GONE" in pistol shooting. After looking at the top shooters in these match I guess the top guys in the state so to speak, I am wondering how they are on top with the way they shoot. One guy shoots a Glock course in 14 secs 5 targets 4 times and has 11 seconds of penalties, the 5th place guy shoots it in 18sec with ONLY 2 seconds penalties. So fast sloppy shooting wins? Same thing very similar when I saw the IPSC match, shoot aa fast as possible no matter what where you hit and you will still most likely win. Something is wrong with this position or maybe I am wrong. Thanks for listening.

Lurper · August 30, 2006, 09:20 AM

PPC, you're not wrong you just don't understand. Some courses of fire favor a high point score, some favor lower points faster. If you understand how the scoring works you can figure out how "loose" to shoot. Unfortunately the trend today is to have high round count hoser stages. Also, just because someone is the top shooter at a local match don't assume they are top in the state, etc. They could just be a big fish in a little pond. The top shooters who have been around for a while are all fully capable of shooting well at 50 yards.

ppcmaster · August 30, 2006, 09:23 AM

Hey Lurper,
I guess that would be a good way to look at it thanks

HSMITH · August 30, 2006, 10:00 AM

I attended a large USPSA match over the weekend, and shot with two of the top shooters in the sport. They are anything but sloppy. They are precise in their shooting, movement, planning and overall execution. And they do it at a speed that makes the club level shooter look like a dufus.

Sloppy and fast will only carry you so far, and only at a club level. To get to be more than a local level contender the sloppy shooting just won't cut it.

Get out and shoot a couple action matches. See what you can do, and I guarandamtee you will have fun!!!

ppcmaster · August 30, 2006, 11:02 AM

HSmith,
Thanks for the info, I will try and go to one of the bigger matches in my area. I have no doubt that these matches are fun, I love to shoot steel, it's a blast. Thanks again

OneInTheChamber · August 30, 2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

One guy shoots a Glock course in 14 secs 5 targets 4 times and has 11 seconds of penalties, the 5th place guy shoots it in 18sec with ONLY 2 seconds penalties.

14 (time) + 11 (penalties) = 25.

18 (time) + 2 (penalties) = 20.

The lower score wins (like golf). The guy who shot better, beat the other shooter in that stage.

He may have placed 5th overall, but beat the other shooter in that stage.

tanksoldier · September 2, 2006, 04:49 AM

If you're ever involved in real combat sometime you'll realize that getting an OK hit on the badguy fast is more important than getting the perfect hit after he's already killed you.

IDPA and IPSC aren't perfect recreations of combat, but they do teach you to move with a gun and think under pressure. Most people only practice at square ranges from stationary positions, so moving and firing can be an eye opener. Few places to practice that outside of IDPA or IPSC for most people.

Lastly, if you send all the less-than-perfect shooters home, how are they ever going to get better? Or are only those born with natural shooting perfection allowed to use firearms?

I still say a bridge is missing it's troll.

ppcmaster · September 2, 2006, 05:55 AM

Tank,
I read your post and thanks for replying. I dont understand your thoughs when you say it's OK to get a so so hit on a bad guy. If you draw your gun and fire 2 shots in 2 seconds annd get so/so hits (non-lethal) and I draw my gun a fire 1 head shot in 2 seconds, I would think that you would still be fighting and my fight would be over.

Lastly, if you send all the less-than-perfect shooters home, how are they ever going to get better? Or are only those born with natural shooting perfection allowed to use firearms?

I still say a bridge is missing it's troll.

Unfortunately no one got the point I was trying to make and I guess I became to passinote about what I was saying. My point about the plinkers was this, I was sick and tired of these guys going to the range to shoot for whatever reason and only shooting to destroy stuff. This type of shooting I feel is nothing more that destructive behavior which leads to property damage, or injury. I have been hit by sharpenel for cans and bottles from so called plinkers, not to mention almost be shot by a few of them. I am tired of paying so much money to go and shoot and never have any targets or a range to shoot at because so called plinkers destroy them, not to mention the possiblity of one of these people losing a round over the berm, the range is closed because of this, they do not care because they aren't into shooting that much, they just do it because they had nothing else to do that day. So forgive me from being passinote about something, I would think you being a soldier you would understand that. I am NOT trying to argue with you. Also I have aologized to people for what I said.

Kirk Keller · September 2, 2006, 06:31 AM

Our PPC league has a number of IDPA shooters and they complain that shooting IDPA hampers their PPC performance solely because of the tendency to shoot faster with a less than perfect sight picture. There are those (typically in High Master) that are just flat good no matter what they shoot.

We did have an IDPA "Nationally Ranked" shooter who tried to tell a High Master PPC shooter that he didn't know how to use his sights. He was invited to attend our PPC matches at no charge. He shot two times, and both times, finished significantly below our worst PPC shooters. Excuses were made, but the fact remains that he couldn't make an X ring hit to save his life. He does very well in IDPA, but it's more forgiving.

Don Gwinn · September 2, 2006, 07:11 AM

So your bigger concern is that IPSC/IDPA/GSSF encourages plinkers who shoot to destroy unsafe targets?

People didn't miss that point because you were passionate about it--they missed it because you forgot to mention it.

I'm going to close this one since you have a new one. Please let that be the only thread on this issue.
Thanks.

August 29, 2006, 10:28 AM	#1
ppcmaster Registration in progress Join Date: March 27, 2006 Location: NONE Posts: 57	Where has the ACCURACY gone???? Hello everyone, Just on a rant today sorry. I was at a few matches over the past few weekends, IPSC and GSSF specifically. I WAS interested in shooting these disciplines until I watched the matches. The only thing I can say is "WHERE HAS THE ACCURACY GONE" in pistol shooting. After looking at the top shooters in these match I guess the top guys in the state so to speak, I am wondering how they are on top with the way they shoot. One guy shoots a Glock course in 14 secs 5 targets 4 times and has 11 seconds of penalties, the 5th place guy shoots it in 18sec with ONLY 2 seconds penalties. So fast sloppy shooting wins? Same thing very similar when I saw the IPSC match, shoot aa fast as possible no matter what where you hit and you will still most likely win. Something is wrong with this position or maybe I am wrong. Thanks for listening. __________________ Once you have mastered 50yds with a pistol, everything else seems easy!

August 30, 2006, 09:23 AM	#3
ppcmaster Registration in progress Join Date: March 27, 2006 Location: NONE Posts: 57	Hey Lurper, I guess that would be a good way to look at it thanks __________________ Once you have mastered 50yds with a pistol, everything else seems easy!

August 30, 2006, 11:02 AM	#5
ppcmaster Registration in progress Join Date: March 27, 2006 Location: NONE Posts: 57	HSmith, Thanks for the info, I will try and go to one of the bigger matches in my area. I have no doubt that these matches are fun, I love to shoot steel, it's a blast. Thanks again __________________ Once you have mastered 50yds with a pistol, everything else seems easy!

September 2, 2006, 05:55 AM	#8
ppcmaster Registration in progress Join Date: March 27, 2006 Location: NONE Posts: 57	Tank, I read your post and thanks for replying. I dont understand your thoughs when you say it's OK to get a so so hit on a bad guy. If you draw your gun and fire 2 shots in 2 seconds annd get so/so hits (non-lethal) and I draw my gun a fire 1 head shot in 2 seconds, I would think that you would still be fighting and my fight would be over. Lastly, if you send all the less-than-perfect shooters home, how are they ever going to get better? Or are only those born with natural shooting perfection allowed to use firearms? I still say a bridge is missing it's troll. Unfortunately no one got the point I was trying to make and I guess I became to passinote about what I was saying. My point about the plinkers was this, I was sick and tired of these guys going to the range to shoot for whatever reason and only shooting to destroy stuff. This type of shooting I feel is nothing more that destructive behavior which leads to property damage, or injury. I have been hit by sharpenel for cans and bottles from so called plinkers, not to mention almost be shot by a few of them. I am tired of paying so much money to go and shoot and never have any targets or a range to shoot at because so called plinkers destroy them, not to mention the possiblity of one of these people losing a round over the berm, the range is closed because of this, they do not care because they aren't into shooting that much, they just do it because they had nothing else to do that day. So forgive me from being passinote about something, I would think you being a soldier you would understand that. I am NOT trying to argue with you. Also I have aologized to people for what I said. __________________ Once you have mastered 50yds with a pistol, everything else seems easy!

September 2, 2006, 06:31 AM	#9
Kirk Keller Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: NC Posts: 808	Our PPC league has a number of IDPA shooters and they complain that shooting IDPA hampers their PPC performance solely because of the tendency to shoot faster with a less than perfect sight picture. There are those (typically in High Master) that are just flat good no matter what they shoot. We did have an IDPA "Nationally Ranked" shooter who tried to tell a High Master PPC shooter that he didn't know how to use his sights. He was invited to attend our PPC matches at no charge. He shot two times, and both times, finished significantly below our worst PPC shooters. Excuses were made, but the fact remains that he couldn't make an X ring hit to save his life. He does very well in IDPA, but it's more forgiving. __________________ Proud TFL Alumnus

August 30, 2006, 09:20 AM	#2
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	PPC, you're not wrong you just don't understand. Some courses of fire favor a high point score, some favor lower points faster. If you understand how the scoring works you can figure out how "loose" to shoot. Unfortunately the trend today is to have high round count hoser stages. Also, just because someone is the top shooter at a local match don't assume they are top in the state, etc. They could just be a big fish in a little pond. The top shooters who have been around for a while are all fully capable of shooting well at 50 yards.

August 30, 2006, 10:00 AM	#4
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	I attended a large USPSA match over the weekend, and shot with two of the top shooters in the sport. They are anything but sloppy. They are precise in their shooting, movement, planning and overall execution. And they do it at a speed that makes the club level shooter look like a dufus. Sloppy and fast will only carry you so far, and only at a club level. To get to be more than a local level contender the sloppy shooting just won't cut it. Get out and shoot a couple action matches. See what you can do, and I guarandamtee you will have fun!!!

September 2, 2006, 04:49 AM	#7
tanksoldier Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 219	If you're ever involved in real combat sometime you'll realize that getting an OK hit on the badguy fast is more important than getting the perfect hit after he's already killed you. IDPA and IPSC aren't perfect recreations of combat, but they do teach you to move with a gun and think under pressure. Most people only practice at square ranges from stationary positions, so moving and firing can be an eye opener. Few places to practice that outside of IDPA or IPSC for most people. Lastly, if you send all the less-than-perfect shooters home, how are they ever going to get better? Or are only those born with natural shooting perfection allowed to use firearms? I still say a bridge is missing it's troll.

September 2, 2006, 07:11 AM	#10
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	So your bigger concern is that IPSC/IDPA/GSSF encourages plinkers who shoot to destroy unsafe targets? People didn't miss that point because you were passionate about it--they missed it because you forgot to mention it. I'm going to close this one since you have a new one. Please let that be the only thread on this issue. Thanks. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner