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View Full Version : gas checks needed? and god awful lead fouling questions


rbf420
September 6, 2009, 06:58 PM
couple fast questions... im casting 9mm 124gr loads using one of lees moulds.. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=366607 will those need gas checks?

and ive shot a bunch of 30.06 cast bullets and even though they were lubed sized then lubed again there was horrifying amounts of lead fouling.. enough that when i shot 5 roungs from the hood of my car there was lead fouling on the hood....... i was using LLA (lees liquid alox) and did tumble lube them and have since realized they arent the type to be tumbel lubed... so short of buying a $100+ lube-sizer what are some cheap ways of lubing them correctly?

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
September 6, 2009, 07:15 PM
No gas check needed on that mold. You couldn't put one on there even if you wanted to. All gas check molds will state if they use a gas check...and the base of the bullet will step in where the gas check is seated.

What velocity are you pushing those cast bullets? What alloy are you using? Using a gas check? Water dropping? Groove diameter of barrel? What are you sizing you bullets to? With answers to these questions we may be able to help you out more.

BTW, Lee claims LLA can be used on non-TL style bullets.

rbf420
September 6, 2009, 07:43 PM
yes to gas checks,

velocity is 2753... very rough guess,

alloy all i know is that its 92% lead 6% antimony and 2% tin,

yes to water dropping,

no idea grove diameter,

and i am sizing them to .309

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
September 6, 2009, 08:04 PM
You are pushing them too fast. I would start by slowing them WAY down and slowly woking up. You generally can't push cast rifle bullets to jacketed velocities...even with a gas check. Try a load that will get you in the 1300-1500 fps and work from there. You will find a load that is accurate, but it may not be a speed demon...this is a limitation of cast rifle bullets. You REALLY, REALLY need to slug your bore because an undersized bullet, especially at that velocity...or even way slower, will shred your bullets....thus the lead fowling coming out the end of the barrel. An undersized bullet will not engage the rifling properly and the lead is stripped from the bullet by the rifling. But, I would say that your main, maybe only culprit, is your excessive velocity. Have you thought about pan lubing those bullets?

LHB1
September 6, 2009, 09:08 PM
+1. My best success with cast lead bullets in rifles was around 2000 fps.

rbf420
September 6, 2009, 09:27 PM
k ill use a lower load... haha i knew i was doing something wrong.

what exactly does pan lubing entail?

and how do u acctualy slug a bore and what do u do and how do u know whats good and bad.. since im new to this all....

rbf420
September 6, 2009, 09:31 PM
and in trying to get a load with 1,300-1,500 do i use a normal powder like h414 and go below starting? i would assume not but a thought.. or do i use some powder that no loading data guide will have load data for? and do u have any suggestions? my bullet wieghts are around 153gr

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
September 6, 2009, 09:35 PM
I have a lyman cast bullet manual. I will look up a load for you. Tell me your bullet mold # and available powders.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
September 6, 2009, 09:41 PM
Modern Reloading by Richard Lee has a bunch of 30/06 cast bullet load data. I would highly recommend this manual. It is CHEAP and full of GREAT information.

rbf420
September 6, 2009, 09:47 PM
im not sure what number your looking for but heres the link for it http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=613249

the powders currently that i have are h414 but very little left and h335, and imr 700x buts that for my 9mm haha, but i can get any powder needed. hopefully a load with low grains since using 50+grs for each load adds like 17 cents in the long run... the bullets are for an M1-garand if that plays any role, i dont nessesary need the action to work, i can do the work myself haha

rbf420
September 6, 2009, 09:51 PM
does it matter if its the 2nd edition for the lee manual?

rbf420
September 6, 2009, 09:53 PM
ahh i lied i have 1 more powder i just realized... h4198

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
September 6, 2009, 09:56 PM
The second edition is what I have and they have laod data for the -06. They have data for 150 and 155 grn cast bullets (you could use either set of data cuz you are real close) and H380, H414, H335, H4895, H-varget, BL-C(2).

jimkim
September 7, 2009, 04:32 AM
Here are a few loads for you 30-06.
They are from Handloader Issue #250 - December, 2007.
The bullets were 165gr RCBS 308-165-SIL's.
H-4198
30.0gr, 1930fps,
33.0gr, 2100fps,
36.0gr, 2270fps,

trip_sticker
September 7, 2009, 06:54 AM
what exactly does pan lubing entail?

and how do u acctualy slug a bore and what do u do and how do u know whats good and bad.. since im new to this all....

pan lubing is placing the bullets in a shallow pan base side down, and pouring a melted lube in the pan till the level reached the top lube groove that you want to see lubed. You can watch the process here.

recipe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkQInQcY8LM

process
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt42PAHDUU0&NR=1

Slugging the bore means driving a soft lead ball down thru the barrel so that it takes the size of the barrel as you force it thru. You can then measure this ball to get the exact diameter of your lands and grooves to know the exact diameter of your bore.

You can watch that here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR_WiL8Dkgw