The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 24, 2001, 05:29 PM   #1
Gabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2001
Posts: 144
Differences btw .50 bmg and 12.7mm Russian cartridges?

I can't seem to find anything on the 12.7x108mm Russian. Does anyone have pictures with the two side by side, or ballisitic data?
Gabe is offline  
Old October 24, 2001, 05:30 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 38,834
I'll check Jean Huon's book this evening when I get home...
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old October 24, 2001, 10:21 PM   #3
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 38,834
Gabe,

Crap, dude, sorry but Jean Huon includes NO ballistic data other than bullet weights in his book for this cartridge.

I don't have any other references that list the cartridge.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old October 24, 2001, 10:55 PM   #4
Gabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2001
Posts: 144
Thanks anyways Mike, it's not the easiest cartridge to look up.
Gabe is offline  
Old October 24, 2001, 11:45 PM   #5
glockten
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2000
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 524
"Military Small Arms of the 20th Century" gives a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps with a 681gr. bullet for the 12.7x108mm.
glockten is offline  
Old October 25, 2001, 11:30 AM   #6
Chad Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 1999
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 601
The US .50 is 12.7x99

The Russian one is 12.7x108

They have about the same energy, but the Russian case is 9mm longer. They are NOT interchangeable.

For really impressive ballistics, look up the data on the Russian 14.5mm round. Woof!
__________________
Come visit me at www.aboutguns.net
Chad Young is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 10:00 PM   #7
Hutch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2000
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,124
Heard one go off at Knob Creek in April thru an AA gun with a very impressive muzzle brake. Awe inspiring!!! Made the .50BMG's sound like... well, not so loud. First shot brought a halt to the firing as every one was trying to figure out what had just blown up! I was trying to remember the name of the Russian gun, and my son gave it a new name. The Krakatoa.
__________________
"First, the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility" -- L. Neil Smith

' I have an [in]alienable right to bear arms. I will exercise my own judgement in their use and accept responsibilty for the consequences' - Oakleaf
Hutch is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 11:24 PM   #8
dZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC
Posts: 7,548
"The Hungarian Heavy Sniper Systems: The 12.7 x 108mm GEPARD," Jacques Lenaerts, from report Vol. 3, no. 4; Vol. 4, no. 1.

A technical article about a heavy caliber sniper rifle developed by Istvan Fellegi, a private inventor formerly with the FEG small arms company. Includes photos of the weapon with close-ups of the flash suppressor and receiver.
Download coming soon

http://www.smallarmsresearch.org/features.html
__________________
"O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes."
BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters
dZ is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 02:54 AM   #9
Gabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2001
Posts: 144
Hey I found what I'm looking for

Re 12.7x108mm:

DESCRIPTION: The case is rimless and bottle-necked, of
brass or varnished steel and Berdan primed. The standard
bullet is a non-streamlined armour-piercing/incendiary
pattern with a steel core inside a steel jacket with
gilding metal envelope. The core is shorter than the jacket
and the space at the front filled with incendiary
composition.

SPECIFICATIONS: AP-I B32 Round length: 146.80 mm Case
length: 105.90 mm Rim diameter: 21.60 mm Bullet diameter:
12.95 mm Bullet weight: 48.28 g Muzzle velocity: 840 m/s
Muzzle energy: 15,570 J

Re 14.5x114mm:

DESCRIPTION: The case is rimless, bottle-necked and of
brass, Berdan primed. The standard bullet is an
armour-piercing/incendiary pattern with steel core and
incendiary composition in the nose.

SPECIFICATIONS: AP-I B-32 Round length: 155.80 mm Case
length: 114.30 mm Rim diameter: 26.90 mm Bullet diameter:
14.50 mm Bullet weight: 63.44 g Muzzle velocity: 976 m/s
Muzzle energy: 30,215 J


So that's:

745 grains at 2756 f/s for the 12.7 Russian
709 grains at 2850 f/s for the .50 BMG
979 grains at 3202 f/s for the 14.5 Russian


The .50 has 1.7% more energy than the Russian 12.7mm. Since the data does not specify other factors such as barrel length and atmospheric temprature, I must assume basically the two rounds are very similiar.

But the 14.5mm has 74% more energy than the .50 BMG! Hot damn
Gabe is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 09:33 AM   #10
mussi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2000
Location: Berne, Switzerland
Posts: 757
That Russian cartridge approaches 20mm levels. 20x131mm was the caliber in question, propelling a 1100 grs projectile (IIRC) downrange with a v0 of 845 m/s.

No, I haven't fired this gun.
mussi is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 02:54 PM   #11
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 38,834
Hey Gabe, you REALLY want a wake-up call?

You know what the 14.5mm Soviet cartridge was originally developed for, don't you?

Two models of SHOULDER-FIRED anti-tank rifles!

I get the willies just thinking about popping off one of those critters... Granted, they both had fairly elaborate recoil absorbing mechanisms, but it still could NOT have been pleasant.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 03:12 PM   #12
Ruben Nasser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2000
Location: Asuncion, Paraguay
Posts: 280
Check the south african NTW-20 , in 20x83.5 mm MG151 and in 14.5x114 mm Russian :
http://club.guns.ru/eng/ntw20.html
You have to carry it in two backpacks, but I guess it delivers quite a punch !!
Ruben Nasser is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 04:05 PM   #13
Gabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2001
Posts: 144
Look what I found. Something called a SRM (Serge Ranvier Munitions)

http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/upeA0E0.html

Interchangable barrel for both .50 and 14.5mm. With a falling block single shot action. The falling block is a neat idea as you get shorter overall length than bolt action.
Gabe is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 11:21 PM   #14
dZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC
Posts: 7,548
12.7 x 108 bullpup:
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn36-e.htm
__________________
"O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes."
BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters
dZ is offline  
Old October 30, 2001, 10:31 AM   #15
Kharn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,531
Anyone care to make the comparison between these rifles and the Solothorn?

Kharn
Kharn is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06959 seconds with 7 queries