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Old October 19, 2001, 08:20 PM   #1
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Location: pasadena,california,America
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Fair is fair scenario.

When I cam back stateside after my tour in '66-'68, I had to learn the "civilized" methods of self-defense again.

Like keeping my gun in a holster until a situation really goes down that requires you to draw your weapon. (No drawing the weapon and hiding it behind your back, if you suspected a possible confrontation.) or let the aggressor see a part of your handgun as he got within hitting space to deter him from getting too aggressive.

For a short stint, I even kept my gun holstered while I checked my house out....didn't last many chances did I want to give the BG? in my own house? Duh!

The laws are even written nowadays to stop you from "brandishing" your weapon. So because of your upbringing or your sense of many of you still think of giving the other guy an "even break?" when a potential physical confrontation is escalating with you as the defender?
How many of you do it because of the understanding of your state laws?
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Old October 19, 2001, 09:25 PM   #2
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No break. I will be passive untill seriously threatened, then I plan to be deadly. One reason I would never have a light attached to a gun. Gun is to be used as a threat only when on the offensive, such as law enforcement etc.

If you brandish, you are inviting another, who may have meant you no harm till then, to rightfully shoot you.

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Old October 23, 2001, 08:50 PM   #3
Ben Shepherd
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DITTO, C.R. Sam.
From my cold dead hands.........

NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor.
Hunter education instructor
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Old October 24, 2001, 05:55 AM   #4
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YOu guys reminded me of a phrase I heard in a movie....

"If you're going to talk, talk! If you're going to shoot, shoot!"

Good point, all....sometimes in this civilized world with some not so civilized players I forget.
proud to be an American.
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Old October 24, 2001, 09:50 AM   #5
David Scott
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LAsur5r has a good point. Military, or even police training, does not translate directly to civilian CCW procedure. We all need to know the laws of deadly force in our jurisdiction. Here in Florida, the law's very specific about when you can use force, and you may not draw or display the weapon unless you're justified in using it. The conditions are:

1. Either a direct threat of death/serious injury (the agressor must show ability and intent) OR a violent felony (robbery, rape, kidnapping, carjacking, etc.) in progress.

2. No option of retreating without risking injury or death.

Modifiers to these conditions are:

1. "Castle Doctrine" -- you need not retreat if you are in your home or place of business. Forcible entry into an occupied home is pretty good presumptive evidence of intent to use violence in a felony, so burglars are fair game. I've seen dozens of news reports about people shooting burglars and home invaders, and never seen one go to the grand jury with charges against the homeowner. Same goes for people defending their business against armed robbers and such.

2. "Stand in the shoes doctrine" -- you are justified in using deadly force on behalf on another person if that person would be justified in using it themself. Therefore, if the robber is pistol-whipping the convenience store clerk, you may shoot him, because you'd be justified if he was pistol-whipping you.

One other good Florida law is that a person may not sue for injuries or damages suffered while they were committing a crime, so if you score a lower spinal hit on a bad guy, he can't sue you from his wheelchair.

It's also nice to know that the State has pre-empted the entire field of firearms regulation, which means that local jurisdictions can't pass any ordinances that are stricter or looser than the State laws.

Thelma and I could have gotten our Florida permits by using our Army DD Form 214s (discharge papers) to show that we'd had fireamrs safety training, but we felt it prudent to pay the $25 apiece and take the Sheriff's Dept. CCW course. It was a good investment.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, and this is not offered as legal advice. Consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. If you're too cheap to consult an attorney, you're on your own.
"As I looked at my two young sons, each with his gun, and considered how much the safety of the party depended on these little fellows, I felt grateful to you, dear husband, for having acquainted them in childhood with the use of firearms."

-- Elisabeth Robinson, in The Swiss Family Robinson by Johann Wyss
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Old October 25, 2001, 08:28 AM   #6
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"If you`re going to talk, talk! If you`re going to shoot, shoot!"

Tuco, (Eli Wallach) while taking a bath in "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly".
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Old October 27, 2001, 07:04 AM   #7
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Dave Scott,

Excellent reminders of what the standard is that we must use in using deadly force in self defense.

Of course, with the caveat that all CCW holders really should check their state and local laws to know what the exact standard is in their jurisdiction.

Thank you kep going on and on in my head until you answered it.

Maybe you can answer this...what did Bruce Willis say in "Die Hard 1?" when the BG with the subgun was standing on the tables trying to shoot Bruce? I can see the scene, but I can't hear the words?
proud to be an American.
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