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Old October 12, 2001, 10:30 AM   #1
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Box Cutter Scenario Part Deux

Those were good responses all around, but let's make it a little tougher this time....

You're on a tour bus, and you see a guy pick up his overcoat, drape it over his arm, and start heading up the aisle, but before he can get two feet, something clatters to the floor.

For some reason, you already had a bad feeling about this,so you've already gotten to your feet with cane/umbrella in your hand. You look down, there is a box cutter on the floor. The guy reaches down, opens it and takes a wide arcing slice at you.

You have your CCW, a cell phone, and now your cane or umbrella already in your hand....what do you do?

Off hand? I'd pop the umbrella open for covering my draw, slowing down his charge for a second. Then all things being relatively clear as a backstop...two to center of mass and one to stop him from any more evil thoughts.
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Old October 12, 2001, 10:54 AM   #2
Join Date: October 10, 2001
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Does my M4 count as a CCW? No? Aw shucks ...

Push kick to his lower body, draw, rush forward with CCW close to body and get close enough for a tackle and one or two quick shots. I don't mind getting cut. Would that work?
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Old October 12, 2001, 11:13 AM   #3
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First of all short of restrictions due to a metal detector no terrorist is going to use a box cutter again. They might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I don’t think they are that dumb. But I will play along anyway.

Like I said before, anybody that pulls a box cutter on me is gonna get slapped. Come on! I am no Billy Bad @$$ but a box cutter? I think a quick block with the cane/umbrella followed immediately with a jab to the head. Ring his bell a little bit. I don’t want to pull my gun right now though. This guy wants to come to America and start a little “box cutter” play? Ok I will finish the game he started. Once I disarm him (or even if I don’t) I think I would wade in close and show him a little good, old fashion, bare-knuckle, American whipping. I honestly don’t care if he starts to slice and dice me, I am going to make him hurt before I am done with him. Freakin’ terrorist coward. Trying to hurt women and children. Scum like that don’t deserve a bullet, they deserve a lot worse.
Doing what you've done, gets you what you've got.
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Old October 12, 2001, 06:32 PM   #4
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Are you sure that it's a terrorist and not linoleum floor layer?

Why would you be on a tourbus nowadays? Are you sure that you can carry on one?

To also play along, drop on your back as he comes at you while drawing your firearm. Use your shoes to deflect any razor attacks while you pop two into COM, or headshot.

Being in a narrow space will really help your defense against a blade.

I guess a face/eye/throat thrust with the cane/umbrella could help to disarm/disorient him, but then you may not have an excuse to shoot him.
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Old October 12, 2001, 07:48 PM   #5
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If he is already takin a swipe at you with the cutter, chances are you do not have a retreat option and you are out of time. Umbrella is in your hand, skewer him with it.

Like canes and gentlemen's walking sticks, choose your umbrella (bumbershoot) with care.

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Old October 13, 2001, 08:31 AM   #6
David Scott
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With a cane or umbrella I would use the left hand and keep him back by jabing at him, giving me time to draw the pistol and put a double tap into his center of mass. That would be a legal repsonse in Florida to an attack with an deadly weapon. Retreat would not be possible because he has too many available hostages.
"As I looked at my two young sons, each with his gun, and considered how much the safety of the party depended on these little fellows, I felt grateful to you, dear husband, for having acquainted them in childhood with the use of firearms."

-- Elisabeth Robinson, in The Swiss Family Robinson by Johann Wyss
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Old October 15, 2001, 10:57 AM   #7
Join Date: October 15, 2001
Location: Chantilly, VA
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Do yourself a favor, if you already have a weapon in hand (umbrella or cane), use it. Don't try and juggle one weapon while going for the other. You have distance, and a knife wielder isn't going to be able to deal with that if you're using the first weapon effectively. When you stop to try and draw your firearm, you become EXCEPTIONALLY vulnerable, especially if your method of concealment has your weapon underneath jacket/shirt, etc. Small of back carry is one of the better ways to conceal a gun, but lousey for getting it out at any rate of speed.
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Old October 16, 2001, 05:03 AM   #8
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Opening the umbrella may be possible with one hand, but offers the other guy instant concealment. Unless you want to shoot through the umbrella, violating rules #2, #3 and #4, you'll either have to close it (two hands!) or drop it. So forget about shooting.

Jab hard at his eyes, throat, belly or groin, but without breaking the umbrella. Flap it in his face to conceal your kicks
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Old October 16, 2001, 12:59 PM   #9
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Oh yeah, since you're on a bus you've got civvies in danger.
I'd still go for 'drop & pop'.

Your shoes do the best in defending against a razor attack, keeps the distance and gives you two additional weapons (just don't shoot yourself). Also, when you shoot from your back, your shot is angled upwards so stray shots & penetrations go up & out of the bus' roof, not into a packed bus.

Opening an umbrella in the aisle is gonna get you tangled up. and since you can't see him, how will you know he isn't reaching for his Tec-9? He may even decide to slash up a few grandma's nearest him since there's an open umbrella between you two.
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