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Old September 1, 2001, 09:21 AM   #1
Join Date: January 16, 2001
Location: Switzerland
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Trapped - a real situation

The following scenario happend on the World Economic Forum in Zurich Switzerland where protesters demolished parts of downtown. A guy got out of a bar and into his BMW that was parked in front when suddenly about 30 rioters appeared from all sides armed with bricks, lead pipes and so on. They immediately started to hit the car and then went on and flipped it over. Then they just left for their next target. Fortunately the guy in the car wasn't hurt but of course the car was a wreck and the insurance company didn't pay a cent.

I've been discussing this with my buddies over and over again but we couldn't find out what to do instead of doing nothing like that guy did.

Of course you could argue that is not the best idea to go downtown at night when riots are going on, but the riots came as a surprise to everybody in Zurich since the Economic Forum took place in another part of Switzerland.

What could he have done instead? If he was armed (which he was not) he could have drawn his gun and try something. But what chance do you have against 30 guys surrounding you at close distance even if they don't have guns?
Calling the police wasn't an option eihter since that would have taken to long of course.

Except for the rioters the street in front of and back of him was empty so he could have tried to just run them over with his car. But if the car got stuck trying that the remaining perps most likely would have killed him.
Even though we know that probably it was the right thing that he didn't do anything I guess I would try to run them over if I was in that situation. Probably going forward (since that car was rear-wheel-drive) which would give me more control over the car and having a smaller chance of getting stuck with the drive wheels on some bodies.

What would you do? (Let's assume that you don't drive a Hummer, but instead that you would sit in that BMW.)
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Old September 1, 2001, 09:43 AM   #2
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Sometimes you're the dog n sometimes you're the tree.

Tis a rare person who can back down a mob even with arms. It looks like the guy was in condition white all the way. Perhaps if he had been alert he would have ducked back into the Pub before getting into the car. I find it hard to believe that a mob of that size could be completly quiet and out of sight untill he was trapped. Once he was trapped....he was screwed. I doubt if a passenger car could escape through multiple bodies from a standing start. What with the living wheel chocks and traction problems. If not too many of them pressing forward he might have been able to drive through........interesting.

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Old September 1, 2001, 09:57 AM   #3
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I would think retreat back into the bar... or better yet, don't go drinking during riots. Not every situation has an outcome that involves no pain and no destruction of our material goods.

If you floored it and got caught up on a guy or two... the mob may well switch gears from random chaos to ripping *you* limb from limb. Same for gunfire.
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- Wiliam James

If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom;
and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money it values more, it
will lose that, too.
-- W. Somerset Maugham
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Old September 1, 2001, 11:11 AM   #4
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With so many assailants, I don't think I'd draw a weapon unless I had distance and a rifle with some high capacity mags. I think the two best options (aside fromavoiding the situation) would be to go back in the bar or to drive through the crowd. If the car had a manual transmission, plan on a low gear wound out for added torque.
Old September 4, 2001, 12:12 PM   #5
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Obviously, they were targeting the Beamer, not the guy. Actually, a mob doesn't need any "reason". Europe is full of socialist a$$holes, mainly "educated" in state financed universities!
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Old September 4, 2001, 02:56 PM   #6
Mike in VA
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I disagree on the outcome had he been armed and able to get off a couple of shots without being disarmed. Those punks count on scaring the [email protected] out of the unaware & alone. Once you started firing into them and a couple went down, I bet they would have scattered like farts in a wind storm (not that I'm anxious to test this theroy, however).

Like most criminals, they're basically cowards and opportunists, trashing things that can't/won't hit back and then running before the 'authorities' arrive. Though I would hope never to find myself in such a situation, if they had tried to trash my bimmer ('beamers' are BMW motorcycles ) with me in it, it would be time to repel boarders with teh help of my friends, Mssrs. Heckler & Koch, who'd be spitting some of Peter Pi's tastiest 185 gr +P .45 nuggets in their direction. I respect thier right to voice an opinion, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be used as a punctuation mark
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Old September 4, 2001, 04:05 PM   #7
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I think the rioters were intent on smashing the BMW a representation of wealth, they weren't interested in killing someone -don't do anything to change their mood.

Since you are in Switzerland and have to assume that some of those rioters may also been armed Swiss nationals, pulling a gun in that situation may not be the best move. Driving over them may not be that ideal as well, since the gearing of a BMW is not optimal for low-end work like a truck.

If possible, perhaps he should have used the car to slowly push the rioters aside until enough clearance happened to get away -all the while letting them beat-up the outside of the car. Better to trade the car for your life.
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Old September 4, 2001, 05:11 PM   #8
Art Eatman
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CWL, from what I've read about the riots--all of 'em--I'd really, really doubt that many, if any, Swiss were involved. They--or their families--are making too much money off international trade to do that sort of protesting!

Eye contact and, "Do you want to be first?" tends to have a salubrious effect on a crowd. I've seen it.

But I think I'd tend to go back and have another beer and then call my insurance company. (Realizing that some policies don't cover events such as riots, wars, etc.)

, Art
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Old September 4, 2001, 11:23 PM   #9
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The insurance company didn't pay a cent?

Sounds like I would be looking for a new insurance company which would pay on claims of vandalism.
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Old September 5, 2001, 01:24 AM   #10
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If I were that guy ? I would be going Charles Bronson on every hippie and vegan in town. No need for guns, I would want to feel their bones break. What a bunch of chicken *******s.
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Old September 5, 2001, 06:17 AM   #11
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A 2000 pound German missile (bimmer) beats a 200gr American missile (Speer GD) out of a couple pound German missle launcher (USP45) any day.

How's the old song go.... "Just drive," she said...
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