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Old February 24, 2001, 07:23 PM   #1
George Hill
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Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
The Utah TFL Chapter is growing considerably. We had 14 shooters and enough guns to give everyone 5.
The morning started out looking bleak and snowy but that clearer up for the most part. It remained cold and breeze so no one shot to best ability... but we all had fun.

Some of us started out setting up targets, others tables and the Chrono... then we went about shooting.
The Geeks in the bunch were instantly drawn to that Chrono for number crunching. This was serious work... I started out with my Detonics and ended up stopping when I was about to start drawing blood. We ran 3 round of each load through each gun. Raw Data Follows:
Detonics Combat Master .45:
Winchester White Box 230gr. 791.4, 766.5, 750.9.
Cor-Bon 165gr +P. 1046, 1103, 1121.
Gold Dot 185gr. 998.4, 975.6, 979.2.
Winchester 230gr SXT. 785.5, 810.6, 796.2.
Federal 230gr Hydra Shok. 781, 806.3, 774.
American Eagle 230gr. 784, 734, 748.
Colt 1991A1 Compact .45:
American Eagle 230. 706, 704.7, 711.6.
Gold Dot 185gr. 935, 968.1, 939.5.
Winchester 230gr SXT. 808.8, 797.1, 806.4.
Cor-Bon 165gr +P. 1006, 1074, 972.1
Federal Hydra Shok 230gr. 809.9, 783, 757.6
Winchester 94 Lever Action Rifle .45LC:
Handloads, 255gr Lead Round Nose. 856, 902, 938.4, 916.7, 907.
Colt Government Model .45
Handloads 225gr on 5gr of W-231. 783.9, 799, 752.7.
Randall .45
Handloads 230gr RN FMJ bullet on 7gr of Unique. 969, 992.6, 984.3, 972.3.
Handloads 230gr Rim Rock Plated on 8.5gr of Blue Dot. 565.1, 610.7, 591.4, 644.3, 655.
Handloads 230gr Rim Rock Plated on 5.5gr W-231. 718, 776.2, 754.4, 742.4, 756.3.
Handloads 225gr Speer HP on 7.0gr Unique. 894.9, 904.8, 917.1, 926.1, 963.9.
Sig Sauer P226 9MM
Sierra 90gr HP 6.0gr Unique. (did not cycle slide) 1049, 1129, 1131, 1078, 1189.
Hornady 115gr XTP 5.2gr IMR SR-7625. (did not cycle slide) 956.3, 991.6, 1028, 1029, 1024.
Rim Rock 124gr HP 5.2gr IMR SR-7625. 935, 972.2, 975.8, 979.6, 929.2.
Hornady 124 XTP 5.2gr SR-7625. 919.4, 977.3, 949.2, 934.0, 913.4.
Speer Gold Dot 147gr on 6.5gr Blue Dot. 1149, 1161, 1150, 1143, 1131.
HK USP .40
Winchester 155gr Silver Tips. 1174, 1178, 1179, 1178, 1175.
Springfield 1911A1 "Loaded"
Cor-Bon 165gr +P. 1133, 1181, 1197.
Winchester White Box 230gr. 861.8, 835.8, 881.6
Hydra 230s. 873, 851.1, 878.9.
Kimber Ultra CDP, 2.5 inch barrel
Winchester SXT 230. 752.5, 743.1, 737.5.
Gold Dot 185. 888.3, 888.8, 892.0.
Hydra 230. 754.5, 744.5, 726.8.
American Eagle 230. 735.8, 687.7, 701.5

We can crunch the numbers in a bit... I got some guns to clean!

[Edited by George Hill on 02-24-2001 at 08:26 PM]
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Old February 24, 2001, 08:10 PM   #2
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I wish I could have come...
Oh well, there's always April.
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Old February 24, 2001, 08:37 PM   #3
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Thanks to all that came(sorry I was so late to the meeting point..won't happen next time). This was my first TFL shoot. It was my pleasure to meet everyone! I had a blast, enjoyed seeing the assorted "hardware", and came away hoping all of you will become life long friends.
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Old February 24, 2001, 09:20 PM   #4
Join Date: September 11, 2000
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Ya know, if all those who missed this one make it to the April shoot, and all those who hear about the fun join us, we are gonna need a bigger desert!!
RIP, monitor, printer and vcr. Your final moments were glorious.
And verrrry impressive! Looking forward to the pix.
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Old February 24, 2001, 09:41 PM   #5
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Here I sit ,
In my broken down chair.
Composing crap,
About which I don't really care.
Minority education,
What a really big bore.
When I could have been out,

I love shooting hardware.

Planning on April,

And Post them pics sonny! The gubmint wants names and faces.
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Old February 24, 2001, 10:22 PM   #6
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Some of this Gathering's events included Balloon Drag Races, Last Man Standing, and Technology Executions.
The Balloon Drags.
We had a pack of balloons to use as targets... The wind would every so often take a ballon and carry it off... An idea struck and the next thing we knew we had one fellow dropping two balloons of differing colors and the shooters, from leather, got to see who could hit the little bouncing balloons first. This was big fun...
Last Man Standing. Every man had a 1 litter soda bottle and each bottle represented himself. With all the bottles lined up - we all fired on command. Some bottles went down. Those shooters stepped back. Another volley, another few stepping back... another volley etc... Bubba Dave, whose Randall 1911 .45 had run dry took my Springfield to fire the last couple shots, (Yes - He had eliminated me one round prior) won and was named "The Last Man Standing."
The Technology Executions. Compaq computer monitor, 24 pin dot matrix printer, and some cast iron VCR like they dont make anymore... Guns Up! The riflemen lined up and awaited the command. Upon the utterance of "FIRE!" that Monitor was just BLOWN UP. Printer and VCR soon to follow. When the Rifles ran dry, the .45s took over and when those were quite, the shotguns finished everything off.
After the shots were mere echos, Mejin remembered "Oh Crap! I need Serial numbers off that monitor!" Luckily the serial and the Compaq name plate were the only things left.

This was an even more fun Gathering than the last one... It seems the Fun Factor DOUBLES each time. This being the case - the shoot in April is something you dont want to miss. If you have to - call into work sick - death in the family - You just died... what ever - you cant work that day!

One of the interesting things there was the Target Stands... Cleverly designed to the point of Brilliance! Something I'll let the creator explain.

Kudos to EVERYONE that attended - Generousity and Jovality ruled the day. Can you guys just imagine how fun the NEXT ONE will be?!?!
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Old February 24, 2001, 10:40 PM   #7
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Even as we speak the pics are down loading to my computer.
each one is about 225k though. It'll take awhile. AND.... I need to go eat. If I have time, I'll work on reducing them to something manageable tomm. But I'm leaving on a work trip at 2 pm tomm. So pics will come though the week. (Gives me something to do at the hotel rooms.)
Discovered some troubles with my Colt though.
after cleaning tonight I discoverd that the gun will fire, if the grip saftey has depressed , prior to pulling the trigger. not just during, like it's suppossed to. That's a bad explanation but it's the best I can do right now.
George has a email with the first pic going out right now....
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Old February 24, 2001, 11:17 PM   #8
George Hill
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So, Basically that Colt's Safty is acting as a trigger?!
Take that gun into a shop ASAP - and until you can do that - I'ld run a Zip-Tie through the action marking it as UN-SAFE. But you already know to do that... I'm just saying this for those who wouldnt know to do this.

That Monitor... I was thinking of taking it to work Sunday and putting it on my desk in place of me real one... I dont come it to work until Monday Noon... so Everyone would come in and see that and wonder just WHAT THE HECK went on. Would have been funny.
But after we all got through with that thing - there was NUTHIN LEFT that even remotely looked like a monitor!
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Old February 25, 2001, 12:13 AM   #9
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I am SO pissed I couldn't come. Meagen had to fill it at the last second for a co-worker and no one to watch Rylee. Somebody send me the pics and directions to the place you went PLEASE! I want to go out there and check out the area too.
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Old February 25, 2001, 11:48 AM   #10
George Hill
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Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Dispite what many people feel about my DPF formula, I feel that it works. It gives a very conservative result when your factoring a hollow point - since hollowpoints expand and this change the caliber dramatically.
Its kind of like the results Police get when they do what is called a "Drag Test" and determin the minimum speed a vehicle was traveling before a collision. They observe a skidmark that lead to the spot where the collision occured. They then measure the skid and use a drag weight and scale to determine resistance that the road gives in that location... they then factor the resistance, the distance and a couple other things and they find that Car X was going AT LEAST YZ MPH and thus they know who caused the crash. (This is very over simplified, I have not done that actual equation is many years).
The DPF is not going to tell you what load is the magic bullet - its just a scale you can use to compair one load to another. With all of the data collected, I am having fun looking at the DPF of these loads. I'm more of a GEEK than I thought! I'll post the DPF results a little later.

The raw data will be emailed to everyone involved/interested in "XL" format.

[Edited by George Hill on 02-26-2001 at 10:54 AM]
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Old February 26, 2001, 10:46 AM   #11
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It was awesome! I'll have to post a fuller account when I have a chance, but it was great. Lots of really nice folks shooting plenty of hardware.
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Old February 26, 2001, 10:53 AM   #12
George Hill
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Was talking to a few fellas who said that the .45 is outdated and the 1911 is obsolete.
People who make such statements are usually catagorized as "Less Than Knowledgable On The Subject."
This Gathering, when we did the Last Man Standing game - Everyone had a 1911 on the line save three guys who elected to use a .40 Berretta Border Marshal (Nice Gun), a SIG something in 9mm (If I am wrong - correct me on that), and a .40 cal HK USP. Everything else was a 1911.

If the 1911 is so dated - then why so many of them?

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Old February 26, 2001, 02:06 PM   #13
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It was great. We had a grand total of 16 shooters. (I think). The games were fun, I lost a ballon race, and got taken out in the first round of Last Man Standing (thanks a lot Meiji). Everyone was friendly, and I got to try out several guns that I have never shot before, including a Nova, a CDP, a Schofield (that was really fun), an M1a Scout, and an AK in 5.45. MiniZ, I'll have to bring a box of 12ga. next time to pay you back for all the shells I put through that Nova. Thanks to Bob for helping me get my scope sighted in, I couldn't hit a dang thing at first.

I'm really looking forward to the group pictures being posted. I'm going to set it as the background on my computer.

Blasting the electronics was great. I have been lugging that cast iron 1970s VCR around for years. It belonged to my wife when we got married, and she could just never part with it. They do not build them like that anymore! It took several rounds of .308 and .45 and it still looked like it would work!! Apparently it was built out of the same materials they use for presidential limos. My old Okidata blew straight to hell immediatly, but I think most of the folks concentrated on the monitor.

Thanks to everybody for the work that went into this, especially skyder for bringing the grill and scouting, and Bob West for the great target stands.

There weren't any killer grasshoppers this time, I think that they knew we would be ready for them. No ice tornados either.

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Old February 26, 2001, 02:12 PM   #14
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Where was this shoot held ?
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Old February 26, 2001, 09:33 PM   #15
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Just some of the DPF scores:

Hornady 124 XTP 5.2gr SR-7625:
Averaged Velocity - 938.6 DPF=41.32
Speer Gold Dot 147gr on 6.5gr Blue Dot:
Averaged velocity - 1146.8 DPF=59.86
HK USP .40 Winchester 155gr Silver Tips:
Averaged Velocity - 1176.8 DPF=72.97

Springfield 1911A1 "Loaded":
Cor-Bon 165gr +P:
Averaged Velocity - 1170.3 DPF=86.9
Winchester White Box 230gr:
859.7 = 88.98
Hydra Shok 230gr:
867.6 = 89.8

This shoot was held about 30 minutes west of Lehi on the Pony Express Trail about 500 yards due south of the monument.

[Edited by George Hill on 02-27-2001 at 12:04 AM]
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Old February 27, 2001, 01:32 PM   #16
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Need E-mail or FTP site.
Sent a pic to George got returned as a bad e-mail
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Old February 27, 2001, 03:14 PM   #17
Caeca Invidia Es
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Meiji_man, send em to me at [email protected] and I'll stick em up on a web site somewhere.
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