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Old December 8, 2014, 12:34 PM   #1
SGTmario
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AR-10 good medium to long range optic/scope

I do not know much about scopes or optics. I bought a new SIG Sauer 716 .308/7.62X51 AR about a year ago and the only optic Ive used on it was an EOTech Holographic sight and a Trijicon ACOG 1.5X16S which were issued to me in Iraq and for some reason I never had to turn them in. I was looking for something with some more magnification the EOTech doesn't even have magnification. Im looking for a good scope in the 800-1000 range unless there are some good ones for cheaper.
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Old December 8, 2014, 12:56 PM   #2
Polinese
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What kind of budget we talking about
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Old December 8, 2014, 12:59 PM   #3
marine6680
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What kind of shooting are you wanting to do? That will play a big role in what scope works best.

For the smallest groups possible, you may want a 20x scope. There are disadvantages to a high power scope though. One being that you really start needing high quality glass, as imperfections are more noticeable in high magnification. Meaning higher cost.


If you want to shoot at man sized sillouete targets then it's less of a concern for small as possible group size. A simple 10x would do fine.


Variable magnification would be little use to you either way. A fixed power has the benefit of costing less for similar quality.


I say the SWFA SS scopes would work well. They are tough, good glass and not expensive. They are on sale for $250 right now, and people claim the glass is as good as some other scopes costing 3-4x more. The special price includes rings as well, but I suggest a cantilever mount, and SWFA has theirs on sale for $30. I picked up this combo and so far I like it.

Fixed power, a little on the heavy side, but a good scope. They sell a 6x, a 10x, 12x, and I think a 16x too, not 100% on the last one.

Mil reticle and options for MOA or Mil turret adjustment. They have a side focus version as well, but it costs more.
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Old December 8, 2014, 01:34 PM   #4
SGTmario
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Budget around $500-$1000 looking for a good hunting and target shooting scope for shooting at 500M-800M targets, I don't plan on long range hunting but it would be nice to have a single scope that can be used for both.
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Old December 9, 2014, 12:17 AM   #5
Arocholl
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I really love my Vortex Viper PST 6x24x50 FFP. What you get for the money is excellent and the warranty is incredible.

Thinking about your budget though, the Vortex doesn't leave much room for rings.
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Old December 9, 2014, 09:16 AM   #6
Polinese
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With that budget I'd say take a look at some of the stuff in the Leupold vx-r line, or whatever the equivelent vortex line is.
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Old December 9, 2014, 09:42 AM   #7
boltomatic
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Redfield-Leupold-Trijicon-Tracking Point Budget-Good-Excellent-Game Over

For long range shooting, you NEED a good optic. On an AR-10, this is especially important because you need something that not only has good optical quality, but wont move even a fraction of an inch under heavy recoil.

All of this translates into $$$.

For a "budget" option, I'd go with Redfield. The are made in the same factory as Leupold scopes, but are a little cheaper. One option is this: http://www.redfield.com/_media/downl..._6-18x44mm.pdf

Its a 6-18x zoom scope with a 44mm front lens, you need 40-50mm for clarity at high zoom levels. It cost about $280, and is perfect for a $600-800 rifle.

For a really good scope from a trusted manufacturer, here's a good Leupold: http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoot...ide-focus-cds/

This scope can be had for about $850-$900. Compared to the Redfield, you are going to get better optical clarity and more durability. Have this scope put on your rifle by a professional, sight it in perfectly, and for the rest of your life you will not have to touch it.

If you have some extra cash, I'd go with Trijicon's new long range scope line: https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produ...t1.php?id=TARS

I've seen his scope in person, and words cannot describe the clarity and precisions it offers. No matter how much you shoot this thing or how often you adjust it, it will perform as good as it did on day 1.

That said, it cost over $4000, but you do get what you pay for.

Now, if money is really not a problem and you would like the ability to easily hit a target 3/4 of a mile away moving up to 20MPH, check this out: http://tracking-point.com/precision-...tactical-stock

Get one before the concept is banned, all you need is $30,000!
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Old December 21, 2014, 12:42 PM   #8
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I can think of at least 5 other scopes I'd rather have than that Trijicon for $4,000. For $800-$1,000 check out Vortex Viper PST line or Burris XTR II.
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Old December 21, 2014, 02:57 PM   #9
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+1 what Marine said--I have 3 SWFA SS fixed mag scopes--in the price range "nothing else comes even close." I have a 16x sitting atop my LRT SASS. They actually all have parallax correction--it's just that it is in-line with the ocular as opposed to being "side focus." The mil-mil reticle is one of the best ones I've ever seen on any scope at any price! You're going to need that 20 mil rail if you're going to be rain-bowing that 308 out there.


Last edited by stagpanther; December 21, 2014 at 03:03 PM.
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Old December 24, 2014, 03:55 AM   #10
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Vortex HS-T/PST
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Old December 26, 2014, 12:24 AM   #11
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I'd suggest the PST also. They are in your price range and do offer a lot of value for the buck. Then, of course, you have that excellent Vortex warranty. The SS scopes are excellent for the price, also. I've had one for close to 10 years and it has performed very well. I actually prefer the rear focus model. It has survived a few years on the M1A, and they're not the easiest rifle on optics.
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Old December 26, 2014, 11:33 AM   #12
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Vortex Viper PST is ok but not my go to by any means. I find my Viper PST FFP 4X16 to be less clear than my Leupold Mark6 or any of my Nightforce NXS scopes. I would suggest the Nightforce SHV it would be in your price range.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/nightfor...iflescope.html
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Old December 28, 2014, 06:04 PM   #13
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Leupold 4.5-14x is a good "fit" on an AR-10. Of course, you can mount anything that gives you decent sight picture, but...

Long ocular lens design scopes are awkward, as are the older-fashion long tube models from the past. Burris Tactical I owned was that way. Hard to even mount on a bolt rifle picatinny rail.

Scope clarity?
Unless you have access to a lensatic test board for color rendition accuracy, and can grade for contrast the whole thing is subjective. It is contrast which really makes the Zeiss and Leitz lenses superior in the camera world, same with the highest end larger format cameras. Contrast.

Buying a lens or sight-system?


Really figure a .308win is an 800 METER ctg? 800 YARDS is even pushing the envelope. An extra 75yds when you make the conversion...



I own both a Vortex PST and Leupold mk4 in 4-15 magnification range. Both are good for AR use, short-bodied and give good magnification. Lit reticles are worth having. Gonna shoot group-size competitions, likely want more magnification.

Buy quality steel mil-spec scope rings and you can swap scopes. High height is right for 50mm objective, maybe extra high if you have big-assed quad rail or other busy handguard/float tube that extends even with or higher than the integral flattop rail.

Effective longrange shooting is not a function of magnification, but of aiming point. Even a 6x or 10x at 1000yds is all you need on a range with fine enough aiming point you can see and hold to.
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Old January 2, 2015, 09:08 AM   #14
dusty14u
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I bought a S&W MP10 for hunting and range use and I originally had a Nikon ProStaff on it. I think Nikon is one of the best values in scopes so I bought a Nikon M308 (4-16 x 42) to go on it. It has BDC which is calibrated for 168 gr bullet, which is what my AR shoots most accurately. It is calibrated to 800yds but I haven't run it out past 100yds to test the BDC marks. It has turrets that are easily set to zero and the lenses are very clear.
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Old January 2, 2015, 12:56 PM   #15
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Dusty, some cautions are in order.

You'll have to see what the differences are between what the scope's BDC value is for a given range and load. The atmospheric conditions you shoot in plus the normal variances between your load in your barrel and what the BDC was calculated for can be as end up as much as 5 to 7 MOA off at long range.

Nikon doesn't state on their web site what muzzle velocity is and the elevation above sea level ambient conditions are used to calculate their BDC marks. The odds of your barrel shooting either of their loads mentioned for that scope the same muzzle velocity they used are not good.

Such is life buying BDC scopes not calibrated specifically for your stuff's ballistics in environment you'll shoot it in.
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Old January 2, 2015, 02:15 PM   #16
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you are correct Bart and Nikon has that covered quite well.

http://www.hausofguns.com/2012/01/31...pe-from-nikon/

http://www.hausofguns.com/2011/02/15...ftware-review/

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...3/nikon-m-308/

BDC technology has been advancing for a few years now and with the software I have been accurate up to 500yds for the rifles I have them mounted for. I handload so that is a huge plus for me because the software can account for the different loads. 500yds is the furthest range I have been able to use so I will still do tests when I can get to longer ranges.

Nothing beats going out and comfirming that the actual shots correspond with the BDC. It takes a little bit of setup but it isn't any different than dope charts that almost all long range shooters create.
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Old January 2, 2015, 02:24 PM   #17
Bart B.
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SGTMario, you'll shoot just as accurate with a lower priced scope than a high priced one on your SIG Sauer 716. I've shot 15 to 20 shot groups at long range equal to or better than benchrest winning groups with cheap, used scopes. A high-dollar scope does nothing to improve a rifle's and its ammo's accuracy and very little to aim it precisely. Unless you can shoot your stuff into 2/3 MOA at worst, all the time at long range, a $300 to $400 medium range variable scope will save you buckets of bills and you'll never be able to see the difference.

It's my opinion that money's best spent on getting the rifle and ammo to shoot very accurate.
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Old January 9, 2015, 09:10 AM   #18
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Nikon

I think Nikon is one of the best values in scopes

Nailed it. I have a Nikon Prostaff 5 in 4.5x18x40..run you under $500 so you'll also have change to spare
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Old January 9, 2015, 10:47 AM   #19
bfoosh006
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https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...-14xffp308.htm

I prefer First Focal Plane scopes... ( FFP ) as well as a Illuminated Red Dot type aiming point. FYI.. some / most red dots are not bright enough in daylight to be useful... this one is.

Second focal plane scopes do not magnify the sighting reticle at higher magnifications..... some thing my older eyes cannot deal with.

That scope has some very good reviews and is very cost effective for a FFP scope.

The illuminated horse and the ranging reticle is quick and simple.

Seriously consider it... I just went through the same question you posted.

That scope was my choice.

Primary Arms sells add on mounts as well.

Watch the videos on the link.

Do not fall for the "it is cheap.. it can't be good.." malarkey... It works very well.

Last edited by bfoosh006; January 9, 2015 at 10:57 AM.
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Old January 9, 2015, 12:37 PM   #20
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I second the Burris XTR2
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Old January 9, 2015, 01:30 PM   #21
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Im still searching.for an.AFFORDABLE yet decent scope for my AR10 also...i can tell you first hand....DO NOT BUY A BARSKA! Ive learned the hard way. I purchsed a 6-24x50 which for the first three/four months was nothing short of pheonominal! Clear optics, held zero, and had me ranting and.raving about how great and affordable this scope was! And then it happened. The recoil of MY ar10 had cause something to come loose inside the scope and one second i could adjust focus and the next i couldnt...the focus knob just spins, ugh. Well, i decided to buy that scope AGAIN, after 2 trips to the range, the knob for the IR adjustment fell off....FELL OFF! pulled the.trigger, bullet went down.range, knob landed on the bench next to me. Ive read posts on here SOOOOOO many times about "not putting cheap glass" on your expensive rifle but i did it anyway. Now for the cost of those 2 barska scopes, i could have bought a nice leopold or something.comparable. heed the advice.from these guys regarding optics and save yourself alot of aggrevation.
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Old January 9, 2015, 11:45 PM   #22
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Vortex ffp. Although too much magnification looks odd on ar10. I always thought a 1-6 or 2-10 would be more suitable

Spend on quality gear but don't be too spendy. Think functionality and practicality first. Dude Hensoldts and Schmidts are great but really not that much better. And you don't need 50+ objectives

I would recommend this bsa scope ...it's a very solid choice without breaking the bank.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/456...-reticle-matte

Last edited by TxFlyFish; January 10, 2015 at 12:09 AM.
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Old January 10, 2015, 12:35 AM   #23
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I plan on purchasing a Vortex 4-16x50 pretty soon. Seems to be a lot of bang for the buck.

I have read tech articles saying there are some fundamental physics laws starting to get in the way for the manufacturing of practical scope being over 20x. Something to do with the ability of glass to be grinded that smooth, or something along that nature. At that point more zoom tend to detract rather then help unless you spend a small fortune. Can't remember the source or I would post it.

When I talk to the folks who I consider the truly great shots- and I mean the best of the best- they seem to agree that high magnification isn't all what it is cracked up to be.
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Old January 10, 2015, 01:08 AM   #24
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Again relative to quality...good quality and high magnification really does help at 800-1000.
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Old January 10, 2015, 06:53 AM   #25
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For some one with such limited experience with "scopes", I'd suggest something SIMPLE. A common, plain jane 3-9 or 4-12 x40 is adequate for general use at the ranges specified and much easier to use. All those widgets and tricky reticles are just too distracting to an inexperienced user.
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