The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 26, 2014, 01:24 PM   #1
Unlicensed Dremel
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2014
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 2,187
All other things being equal, which has more muzzle blast -larger or smaller caliber?

All other things being equal, which has more muzzle blast & louder report - a larger or smaller caliber?

For example, .242 win, .260 rem, 7mm-08 rem, .308 win - with same powder charge; which is loudest?

If I remember right, the smaller caliber is loudest, since the small bore "sharpens" or focuses the report, but cannot remember for sure.
Unlicensed Dremel is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 03:59 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,800
Generally, a higher pressure cartridge is going to have more noticeable muzzle blast than a lower pressure cartridge.
Powder capacity matters, as well. But, all other things being equal, higher pressure = more noticeable pressure wave.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 04:49 PM   #3
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,435
It's not so much the caliber that matters but the muzzle pressure.

Muzzle pressure is influenced by powder burn rate, peak pressure and barrel length, if not more.

I can run some examples in QuickLoad later on but the short answer is that there is no short answer.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 05:18 PM   #4
EchoM70
Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Posts: 65
The way I've always seen it and explained it; with all else being equal the smaller caliber will produce higher muzzle pressure thus producing a higher muzzle blast. So for example comparing a .243 to a .308 with everything else equal besides the bullet diameter the .243 will be louder than the .308.
EchoM70 is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 06:08 PM   #5
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,572
We were shooting my 223 and my 260 the other morning. I was watching as a guest shooter shot each rifle. The 223, with a hot load of H335 under a 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip had a significantly larger muzzle flash than the 260 did. The 260 load is a warmish load of IMR4064 behind a 100 gr Nosler BT. I was quite surprised at the flash from the 223, and the 223 has a 2 inch longer barrel.
603Country is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 06:15 PM   #6
WV_gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 938
Out of my guns, only one even has a muzzle flash. An AK pistol shooting Russian ammo with no brake. Puts out a ball of fire.
WV_gunner is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 06:37 PM   #7
Sierra280
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2013
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Posts: 569
Are we strictly talking about rifle calibers? Because I've never seen a 38 load throw a huge ball of fire like hot 357 magnum loads.

And all things being equal: Fat people use more soap!
Sierra280 is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 08:16 PM   #8
PHEASANTPETE
Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2011
Posts: 46
How can "All other things being equal, which has more muzzle blast -larger or smaller caliber?" be a realistic argument? What is equal between different calibers. Different calibers, pressures, how can one compare them equally? It is an odd question. Are you asking about higher pitch report? Smaller bores would generally produce a higher frequency. Lower frequencies from bigger bores.

Stand next to a magnum and they have a much louder report. How about a howitzer? Large bore and very loud albeit at a lower frequency, the kind that rattles your fillings loose.

Generally the more energy in the powder charge used the more of an energetic blast. Nothing new or shocking. If one wants to talk about perceived blast we can get into all kinds of rabbit trails. Muzzle brakes make the perceived blast to be greater because they redirect the blast towards the shooter. Kind of like standing in front of a speaker vs behind one.

Now if someone wants to discuss frequency blow across a big pipe and then a little pipe. Smaller pipes produce higher freqs. The energy released as sound at the end of the barrel will vary according to many factors.

What is the point of the question is what I wonder? You may get responses that better apply to your intended purposes if we knew what your reasoning was for asking the question.

Last edited by PHEASANTPETE; March 26, 2014 at 08:28 PM.
PHEASANTPETE is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 10:29 PM   #9
Unlicensed Dremel
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2014
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 2,187
"all other things being equal" means pressure is equal. EVERYTHING else *besides* caliber is the same.

Quote:
How can "All other things being equal, which has more muzzle blast -larger or smaller caliber?" be a realistic argument? What is equal between different calibers. Different calibers, pressures, how can one compare them equally?
It's not an argument. Just a question. Same pressure, same powder charge, everything. .260 rem with a 140 vs. .308 with a 140 loaded to the same pressure.

Perhaps the answer is "smaller". Perhaps it's "larger". Perhaps it's "the same". Perhaps the answer is "no one knows". I dunno; that's why I'm asking. But I thought I read once that the smaller the caliber the louder the boom, ceteris paribus.
Unlicensed Dremel is offline  
Old March 26, 2014, 11:16 PM   #10
PHEASANTPETE
Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2011
Posts: 46
Perception matters

The higher pitched smaller one may be perceived as louder as most hate high pitched noises. Listen to some young girls screaming and you get an idea of audio tolerance. The lower pitched one will carry further but which one is louder that would take some testing and mathematics to get an average.
PHEASANTPETE is offline  
Old March 28, 2014, 11:15 AM   #11
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,795
I can't give you any kind of scientific explanation, only my observed results. I have Remington carbines in both .308 and .243, (equal barrel lengths) and my perception is that the .308 sounds "louder".
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old March 29, 2014, 07:59 AM   #12
bbqncigars
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 458
The same powder charge in two different calibers will not develop the same pressure. Now if you're talking the same psi/fps/powder (which is more realistic), then in my limited experience it would be the smaller caliber. At least my .357AMP gives a lot more blast with the same load factors than my .44AMP. YMMV etc.
__________________
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant
bbqncigars is offline  
Old March 29, 2014, 09:40 AM   #13
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,435
Quote:
It's not an argument. Just a question. Same pressure, same powder charge, everything. .260 rem with a 140 vs. .308 with a 140 loaded to the same pressure.
The problem with that is that it's impossible.

The same charge of the same powder will not result in the same pressure in two different cartridges, even two that are based on the same parent.


For instance....

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

According to QuickLoad,

A .260Rem loaded with a 150gr Sierra MK would max out at 42.3gr Ramshot Hunter. Muzzle pressure is 9,577psi, 60k PSI peak, mv 2,677 from 24".

A .308Win loaded with a 150gr Sierra MK and 42.3gr Ramshot Hunter...
Muzzle pressure 6,126 psi, 25k psi peak, mv 2222.

So, they're not even close.

You can't even fit enough Ramshot Hunter in a .308 case to get up to 60k psi with a 150gr SMK.

If I go the other way, a 96% charge of Wiin748 in the .308 gets us to 60k psi peak, 7,853psi muzzle and 2,975 mv.

That same charge is a .260Rem...

122,000 psi (blow up the gun, or darn near), 9,587 psi muzzle and (a staggering) mv of 3,270.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 30, 2014, 12:20 PM   #14
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,795
Quote:
At least my .357AMP gives a lot more blast with the same load factors than my .44AMP.
Are they the same barrel length?
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06629 seconds with 7 queries