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Old March 25, 2014, 07:18 PM   #51
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I got my daughter an Ithaca-37 police/riot shotgun back in the early 90's
when she was at the Univ of Florida/Gainesville and the serial murders were
in full swing. Somehow I'd gotten the gun back for temp keeping some
years ago as she was moving PCS w/ her husband.

Several months ago she got it back, and I took her husband out with it to
the local range. We set a large cardboard wardrobe box up at 10-12 feet
using double-ought buck.... He wanted to calibrate both himself and the

One hole. Maybe 4 inches in diameter and easily producing the most
horrifically possible human wound imaginable....

But one hole.

(He was impressed in what that meant in terms of still having to
maintain absolute sight concentration -- short-barreled "shot"gun or not )

Last edited by mehavey; March 26, 2014 at 12:19 PM.
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Old March 26, 2014, 10:03 PM   #52
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Home Defense or Constitutional Defense?

You said you wanted a rifle for target shooting at long range and defense. Are they linked or are you talking about home defense as well? What is your budget? Have you considered more than one weapon?
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Old March 28, 2014, 10:36 PM   #53
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Buy a Mosin, still cheap. Reloadable ammo is affordable as well. And you can modify it all you want. Improve it for target shooting.

Point is, it "can" be used for home defense ... I got mine in the kitchen, bolt open, with an open box of ammo on the spice rack lol.

But also, it's cheap, and you can now also afford a shotgun for just home defense.

Which is my next weapon, my wife to be told me she's buying me a shotgun after our wedding, due to the fact that my birthday us two days before our wedding (no way I'll ever forget our anniversary lol add two days to my birthday)

Of course we also have two handguns in the bedroom
I like (ie I have) Polish, Canadian, Finnish, Russian, Brazilian & American. Love them all.
Wifey has Italian & Russian, she needs more lol.
Heck, I need more too
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Old March 29, 2014, 08:46 AM   #54
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I'm looking for an all purpose rifle, probably a military surplus one which will give the most bang for the buck! LOL. That is reasonably reliable, not pricey, ammo generally available etc
All Purpose: To me that means hunting, defense, competition (3-gun to High Power (200-1000) yards. M1 Garand

Most Bang for the Buck: $625 from the CMP M1 Garand

Probably a military Surplus: M1 Garand

Reasonably reliable (make the extremely reliable) M1 Garand

Not Pricey, ammo available. 200 Rounds for $118 from the CMP M1 Garand

Lets add Accuracy. Service Grand capable of 3 moa with irons. Positive clicks (1 MOA) to 1200 yards, sighting system easy to use. M1 Garand

Hunting, capable of taking any game in NA, 100 to 220 gr. bullets M1 Garand

Parts availability (Thought I've been shooting mine for over 30 years and haven't broke anything). Parts are available from the CMP, Gun parts Inc. and hundreds of other places across the country. M1 Garand

I don't believe in an all around do everything rifle, but the M1 Garand comes closer then anything I can think of.
Kraig Stuart
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
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Old April 9, 2014, 08:35 PM   #55
Join Date: March 25, 2014
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Ruger Mini-Thirty Tactical

I was looking for the same type of gun as you, went with a new Ruger Mini-Thirty Tactical Rifle, and could not be happier!

Its short (about 37"), light, no protruding pieces like an AR-15, accurate, and fires a cheap but powerful round (7.62x39). And it only cost about $800. Also, its about as reliable as an AK and is very easy to clean. I clean my guns every time I shoot them, but my father has the same gun and has put about 1000 rounds of russian steel through his without a cleaning and has yet to have any problems.

Its really the perfect gun. The ammo is the cheapest centerfire rifle ammo you can find so you can afford to shoot it, and they make higher quality ammo for hunting or self defense.

Accuracy is more than enough. I shoot about 2 MOA with cheap russian steel ammo, that means at 300 yards you're still putting rounds in a 6 inch circle. Considering most medium game (people included) are shot under 150 yards, this gun is great for hunting, self defense, and of course SHTF scenarios. Where I live, its rare to have a sightline over 200 yards anyway.

Another bonus is, unlike the AR, its unlikely to be banned anytime in the near future. For me that was an issue since I live in a state where AR's are already restricted to some degree.

The only complaint I have about the mini is that the factory magazines are expensive and aftermarket magazines are pretty bad.

If Ruger made a mini in .300 blackout, it might just be the perfect gun (assuming you can find the ammo for it!).
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Old April 9, 2014, 08:41 PM   #56
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All good suggestions, and I did get a Ruger mini14 in 223 Rem! Love it
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Old April 9, 2014, 08:46 PM   #57
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One of our duty weapons was the Mini-14 which fires 223. I have seen literally 10s of thousands of rounds put through them in six week cycles and only cleaned at the end of a cycle.

I have an SKS that fires the 7.62x39 round and it is a great weapon and when I got it I paid $150 for it. I want a mini 30 very bad. Just wish I had bought one from our Rugar rep when they were less expensive.

I really like all my rifles, but a Mini would be a nice add. I have become very partial to lever guns lately. Not very likely to be banned and though they are not as fast as a semi auto, they are fast enough.

You should really only fire when you have a good sight picture anyway and I can crank another round in it and acquire a new sight picture almost as fast and I can with the semi autos.

Really the only point I wanted to make is I really like the Mini 30 and 14.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Thomas Jefferson
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Old April 9, 2014, 08:56 PM   #58
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Savage over/under model 24. 30-06 20 gage.
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Old May 1, 2014, 01:41 AM   #59
Join Date: July 25, 2013
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Best all-around rifle

Seems to me that to qualify the rifle would have to be able to:
Be carried by a wide range of carriers some distance
Be effective in shooting animals (4-legged) for nourishment and (2-legged for turning the odds and winning a battle) as well as roughing up their vehicles of all types.
A simple loading technique with a reasonably high capacity so that you can stay in the game longer (that is, removable mags)
THe ability to load (loading done by someone else)in parallel with shooting to stay in the fight continuously
A round that can take down large animals and can penetrate barriers before hitting it's target (within reason)
A round that can be shot from a mid-priced gun that can be tuned for reasonable accuracy and be altered for a surpressor.
To me, this leaves the .308 front and center with it's ballistic friends 30-30 and 300 win mag as alternatives. My favorites, the 335 lapua mag and the 300 RUM just skew too much to high power uses to be broadly acceptable just as .223/5.56 skews low.
I'd pick an FNH FNAR as a gun that appears a 'tweener' caught between military and police rifles and modern hunting rifles. Safer looking in a crowd than an M4 - depending who carries it. Or it's shooting grandfather the Browning BAR which would be offputting to very few.
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Old May 1, 2014, 10:55 AM   #60
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buy yourself a tc encore and then choose the barrel and length!!!

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Old May 1, 2014, 10:59 AM   #61
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All good suggestions, and I did get a Ruger mini14 in 223 Rem! Love it
Congrats ninjaamt - enjoy the rifle!!

kraigwy - you have a very convincing sales pitch for the M1 Garand , it really puts things in perspective "nicely done".... I just wouldn't consider 60 cents per round to be very affordable if one does a lot of shooting.
Ex - Navy, Persian Gulf Veteran. Loved shooting the M14, 1911, M60, M2
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Old May 1, 2014, 12:55 PM   #62
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Mini-14 is fun.

Have one. Unfortunately, it took 2 trips back to Ruger to resolve some jamming issues [when new].

Still like it a lot.

Another thought: SAIGA .308/7.62 Nato.

Also fun. Don't know if it is banned in New Jersey though. I have 10 round mags for mine as I'm in another socialist state: California.

Just a thought.
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Old May 2, 2014, 02:11 PM   #63
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5 compact bolts
Hey, I like levers, Ok, and have no axe to grind, but there really are useful, compact bolts that will rival a lever carbine.

A ways back somebody challenged for 5 compact bolts. Listed are 5 that will shoot with any lever in terms of accuracy and reach. Some will equal or exceed a lever in rate of fire/volume of fire, but such does not matter to me in a GP rife so much. All are way ahead of a pistol caliber carbine in terms of punch, and some eclipse the .30-30 and .35 . None require the the halfcock safety that so many seem to misunderstand these days, and none have a design spoiled by lawyer manual safeties. All are easily scoped. You don't have to jack all the rounds through the action to clear them either.

Here ya go:
-Rem 600-660
-Rem Model 7
-Ruger American Compact
-Zastava Mini-Mauser
-Mossberg MVP/Patrol series
-CZ bolt carbine (sorry, can't name model)
-Ruger Frontier
-Browning Micro

True, they aren't flat, and don't fit in a scabbard on a nag so well, but not many get around via hayburner these days. Again, I have nothing against levers, and if you check my first post, I actually suggested a lever .30 to the OP. For quite a while I had a M94 as a truck rifle, followed by a Marlin .357.
I like the breed, But the above bolts will run with the old carbines, for sure and shoot circles around them in some applications.
My post was mostly directed elsewhere. Never said you didnt like levers.

I appreciate you actually showing some Bolt guns that are lighter than the Levers. Most on that list, save the ruger and mossberg MVP, are either discontinued or very hard to find.
"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down."

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne
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Old May 2, 2014, 07:59 PM   #64
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O3A3, custom stock, stock peep sights... Period.

"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
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Old May 3, 2014, 05:36 AM   #65
A pause for the COZ
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Mosin Nagant
I am partial to the Carbines but have one 91-30 also.
Ammo is cheap plus you can reload for them
I shoot mostly cast bullets out of mine.
Bad part????
Well once you have one you most likely will have two or three or four.

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Old May 3, 2014, 06:36 AM   #66
Jack O'Conner
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SKS carbines are fun to shoot and easy to maintain.

Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.
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Old May 3, 2014, 11:47 AM   #67
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For all around balance of affordability, serviceability and just plain old fun to shoot, the Mosin's are really hard to beat. 7.62x54r is plenty to take down just about anything you are going to hunt in North America. Ammo is easy to find and the gun is built so simply that any one with fingers could service it.

I've done some reloads with 150gr cast bullets sitting on 11.5gr of unique that were mouse fart loads and they shot very well. For a beginning shooter it would be like shooting .22lr.
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Old May 3, 2014, 08:02 PM   #68
Art Eatman
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Since the OP is now the proud owner of a Mini, we can now wait for the next question.
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
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