The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 15, 2013, 10:41 AM   #1
Senior Member
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 7,018
Guns and the blind, in Iowa ???

Although this subject/challenge, is currently effecting Iowa permit holders, I see that eventually it will likely effect other states. ....

When Iowa first went to shall-issue, a couple of years ago, there were three areas of the law, that I and others, thought were weak or potentially controversial. Regardless, it was and still is, a good law but far from perfect. ....
Well, now an issue has surfaced in one of these area, pertaining to a blind person obtaining a permit. The case in point, is a man who is totally blind and this has gotten the local Sheriff questioning the current requirement. ...

Should legally blind folks be allowed to obtain CCW's? I must say that it's given me much to think about and although I have an opinion, it's not an easy question to answer. ....

Be Safe !!!
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

Last edited by Pahoo; October 15, 2013 at 02:45 PM.
Pahoo is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 11:07 AM   #2
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,295
Why not? I know your example says "totally blind", but many legally blind people can see, just not well enough to drive.

Even the totally blind have a right to defend themselves.

How many examples can you find of blind people recklessly shooting into a crowd of people?
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"

Last edited by Tom Servo; October 15, 2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Good point, but the snark was a bit much.
zxcvbob is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 11:09 AM   #3
Don P
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,666
As much as I would like to say yes I have to state no. A disaster waiting to happen. Would be almost impossible for the visually impaired to know someone is closing in on them and should the would be attacker be on his game should be able to disarm without much effort. Just my penny's worth. I worked for a service for the visually impaired and have seen first hand some of the difficulties that they deal with on a daily basis. Just one example I'll use is there mobility factor and imagine them trying to find and use cover if needed. They are truly challenged daily and I give them all the credit in the world for venturing out in todays world and functioning in todays society. People that are legally blind are deemed so for a reason. If we choose to to arm them then why not give them a drivers license??
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA NROI Range Officer,
ICORE Range Officer, ICORE Match Director
,MAG 40 Graduate
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 11:25 AM   #4
Senior Member
Join Date: August 2, 2010
Location: Not far enough from Chicago
Posts: 394
I say go for it.

Aiming at a distance would be more difficult or even impossible. There is a chance, however, that a blind person could get a shot off with the muzzle in direct contact with an attacker. The blind person would need to make that judgment call on his/her own just like any non-blind person would.

As for a blind person shooting into a crowd what's stopping that person from doing that whenever he/she pleases to begin with? Nothing.

If a blind person makes a bad judgment call then that person should be held up to the same consequences as any other person.
Davey is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 11:49 AM   #5
44 AMP
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 17,352
If we choose to to arm them then why not give them a drivers license??
I disagree with the idea that we are "choosing to arm them". Wrong point of view, in my opinion. WE aren't arming them. I think a CCW permit should be available to the blind. For the legal protection it offers.

Obviously, a blind person cannot use a gun the same way a sighted person can, but that does not mean a gun is totally useless to them for personal protection.

Consider this,
If I were blind, I would still keep (at least) one gun. Some kind of "bellygun" snub .38 or .357. Reason? last ditch defense. Contact distance. Emergency use only (obviously).

If someone has me down and is beating my head against the pavement, having that bellygun might mean the difference between living to make a police report and not living. And, it has to be concealed, until needed in gravest extreme.

So, a permit is needed to comply with the law.

This is NOT the same kind of situation as a blind person driving a car on public streets. Not even close.
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 12:21 PM   #6
Senior Member
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 3,557
All individuals have a right to protect themselves and this includes those with physical challenges.
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 12:25 PM   #7
Evan Thomas
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 5,187
44AMP is spot on.

We have at least one blind member on the forum, Blindmansbluff, who has a permit and carries concealed on a daily basis. Do a search for his threads, and you'll find he makes a very good case for why he carries; he's very responsible about how , and for what situations, he trains. (He's very clear that for him, a concealed pistol is a contact weapon.)

He also has a blog; although he doesn't post too often, it's a good read. He's a serious 2A supporter, and he makes a very good case that his right to arm himself is no different from anyone else's.

(I wish he'd come back -- he hasn't been active in a while.)
Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.
Evan Thomas is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 01:30 PM   #8
Senior Member
Join Date: July 18, 2013
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 628
Well the first 10 seconds of this clip shows a blind man successfully defending his property with a pistol...

Armed_Chicagoan is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 01:31 PM   #9
Senior Member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: Campbell Ca
Posts: 1,090
Blindness is a legal term

There are varying degrees of it. Someone can be declared legally blind and still have some vision.
Equal Protection is Equal Protection. I may not be comfortable with a 100% lack of vision person having CCW, but I would trust him to make use of his needs for self defense right up until the time he shows otherwise.
Colt46 is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 01:49 PM   #10
Senior Member
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,976
44 AMP pretty much crystallized it...
Salmoneye is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 04:02 PM   #11
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Location: The Hawkeye State
Posts: 191
I am for the issuance to legally blind

Only a very small percentage of legally blind have no vision at all. Around 3 percent if I remember correctly. I wear corrective lenses for a vision impairment. If I had my glasses knocked off in a struggle with an attacker I would be visually impaired. How many of you have gotten up in the middle of the night when awoken by a strange noise and searched your darkened home. Hard to see wasn't it?
How about a LEO at night searching in a dark building or alley? Their vision would/is impaired right?
I see no difference with legally blind and any of the above situations. If someone has me on the ground with intent to do bodily harm with or with out my corrective lenses I will know it.
There are no laws or restrictions that say a CCW has to be able to identify and stop an attacker at 25 feet. Most life threatening situations happen much closer than that.
I feel the legally blind deserve and have the right to the same protections under the law that I have. It is their choice if they are comfortable with a concealed weapon.
J A is offline  
Old October 15, 2013, 05:38 PM   #12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 17, 2013
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 165
Part of TN's carry permit requirement is to show proficiency. The requirement is minimal and I believe the furthest target was 7 or 10 yards. There were enough 3 and 5 yard targets to qualify if you put the rounds without the outer perimeter of the target. My guess is that a legally blind, but not totally blind, person could qualify without much trouble.
glh17 is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2017 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07867 seconds with 7 queries