What Was Your Introductory Rifle In the Military? When & Where? - Page 3

10-96 · September 7, 2013, 04:12 AM

M-16A1, Ft. McClellan, Alabama- 1987. I don't recall seeing anything but Colts, and was perplexed at all the lowers which were still stamped "AR-15", and there were a few chromed (or shiney) bolt carriers in B-787 MP Bn. I'm guessing they were all parts masters, because I was under the impression that if the rifle had a shiney bolt carrier, then it ought to have a 3-pronged flash suppressor and no forward assist. But, I believe they all had the A1 bird cages and forward assists.

vito · September 7, 2013, 08:08 AM

M1 when I entered college ROTC in Sep 1960; M14 when I went on active duty in July 66. When I arrived in Vietnam in July 1970 I was issued an M16, with no instruction or training. I was one of those "old timers" who scoffed at a plastic rifle, especially with the small caliber .223 round. But it worked pretty well when called upon to fire. I guess right now I'd love to have an M14.

Tom68 · September 7, 2013, 08:46 AM

M16A2, Fort Benning, GA in 1990. We were issued the A2s for Basic Rifle Marksmanship, and then after we qualified, we turned them in for A1s for the remainder of OSUT.

Some of the A1s retained the triangular handguards, while most had been replaced with round ones. All of the A1s were pretty "experienced". Mine in particular was an H&R if I remember correctly.

By the time I returned to Benning for OBC in 1992, all of the A1s seem to have been retired, for I never saw anything but A2s.

jonnyc · September 7, 2013, 09:41 AM

M16A1, during a ceremony on a beach south of Ashkelon, Israel, just north of the Gaza Strip, in 1986.

**44 AMP** · September 7, 2013, 11:47 AM

M16A1 (and a rather worn one, at that) Ft Leonard Wood, MO, 1975. Basic Training. A little later, in AIT, I did get some experience with the M14.

My class in Small Arms Repair at Aberdeen Proving Grounds was the last class the Army trained on the M14 rifle.

And as far as hearing how many people over the years had worn, or virtually worn out rifles in their basic training, that's certainly true. That's because they are training rifles.

Not sure about today, but in the 1970s, the Army accuracy standard for overseas shipment of M16s was 8MOA. Think about that for a moment.

None of the rifles I ever saw was that poor (and a saw a lot), but it could have been, and still been sent into combat! I don't know for sure, but I think (and hope) we do things a little bit differently (and better) today.

bikerbill · September 7, 2013, 02:36 PM

M16, Lackland AFB, 1965 ... Qualified as marksman, they let us fire one mag full auto and I never saw one again ... the life of a MAC-trained killer ...

jwden123 · September 7, 2013, 03:08 PM

My initial weapon was an M1 Garand at Parris Island in Sept 1962. One week before we went to the rifle range for marksmanship training, they took all of the M1s and gave us M-14s.

I only fired the M1 a few times and I hated doing "inspection arms" with it. Ever hear of M1 thumb? The M14 was a really nice rifle, although the first ones had a flash suppressor held on with a roll pin, instead of screwing on.

kymarkh · September 7, 2013, 03:09 PM

M16A1

1982 Fort Benning Georgia

B - 5 - 1 Bravo! Victory through Skill!

Never really experienced many malfunctions with the various A1's I used in 3 years of Infantry service as long as we are talking ball ammo. You start talking 500+ rounds of blanks in a day then its a squirt of Breakfree into the bolt carrier every other magazine to keep her running. Great rifles.

Sgt.Fathead · September 7, 2013, 03:48 PM

A very battered but still very accurate M16A2 at Parris Island in 1987. I actually arrived for Basic on April Fools Day! The rifle I was issued was the first rifle I'd fired aside from .22LR bolt actions in Boy Scout camp and a few BB guns and qualified Sharpshooter with it.

As an 0331 I spent much more time with the M60E3 and sometimes the E1,the M2 HB Browing .50 and the Mk19. The SAW made it's way to us later.

I'd take and M60E3 again or even better the E4! If, IF!, someone else is paying for that linked 7.62. I'll also state in truth that I'm just as happy with my civilian AR.

2rugers · September 8, 2013, 03:23 PM

That black plastic gun with all the doo'hickeys on it.

jimbob86 · September 8, 2013, 04:05 PM

M16A1, Ft. Sill, OK ..... June, 1985.

I remember the forward assist was round .... it was, in general, in really rough shape.

Hundy · September 8, 2013, 07:22 PM

M16A1 in Basic and Infantry school Fort Benning GA. 1988
M16A2 my first unit 82nd Airborne Fort Bragg NC
M249 SAW 2 months later at Fort Bragg

I was mostly a SAW gunner for my 4 years in. I had a first generation SAW, a-lot of issues. The M249's of today look a-lot better and hopefully they worked out the bugs.

SHE3PDOG · September 9, 2013, 10:00 AM

M16A2 w/ irons, MCRD San Diego, CA, 2010

Now I use an M4 w/ ACOG. It is a much nicer setup, and far easier for most people to rifle qual with. There are still a surprising amount of people that completely fail though.

RUT · September 9, 2013, 10:14 AM

>>Now I use an M4 w/ ACOG. It is a much nicer setup, and far easier for most people to rifle qual with.<<

Are you saying the ACOG is used on the range for qualification? If so, things have sure changed since I was a Gyrene!

SHE3PDOG · September 9, 2013, 12:45 PM

When I was in boot, we used irons to qualify, but in the fleet we use ACOGs on the range. However, now even boots are being taught on ACOGs while at MCRD, so they don't even know how to use irons unless they learned somewhere else. I just recently qualified with my scoped M4, and getting expert is just cake if you have any sort of halfway decent shooting form. Like I said though, there are still a surprising amount of people that fail entirely.

I suppose I may also be somewhat biased as I shoot far more than just my military issue stuff and far more frequently than many of them do, being a gun guy and all. Many of these guys only fire a weapon of any sort once or twice a year when they qualify.

SPEMack618 · September 9, 2013, 12:53 PM

In OSUT, we had to qualify with iron sights, but before deployment, and every year since, we've qualified with an ACOG or M-68 depending on what the Soldier used. Qualify with what you shoot type of deal.

SHE3PDOG · September 9, 2013, 12:57 PM

When range week comes around, the armory will actually loan out ACOGs for people to use, even if they don't have their very own issued one, so that qualification will be easier. I'm sure there are some units that may not have enough ACOGs for their shooters, so perhaps a few people still qualify with irons every once and a while.

RUT · September 9, 2013, 01:33 PM

Well, that shows you how out of touch I am! You have to remember, I go back to the M14 days of the early/mid '60's, and the ACOG wasn't even heard of!

SHE3PDOG · September 9, 2013, 01:39 PM

I'm sure the Corps' shooting program won't be something that I keep track of after I'm out either. They could shorten the distances and start using red dots, and I would have no problem being blissfully clueless about it.

cw308 · September 9, 2013, 03:29 PM

Fort Cambell KY, Served from 66-68. M14, M16, M60. Loved the M14 & M60, Carried the black stick in VN from May 67-68. Just give me a good bolt action Rem. 700 any day.

Carry_24/7 · September 9, 2013, 04:10 PM

Fort Knox KY, 1989. M16A1 and M3 Grease-gun.

Falcon5NZ · September 10, 2013, 05:40 AM

IW Steyr (Steyr AUG) S/N: NZ9010425
RNZAF Base Woodbourne
2001

kraigwy · September 10, 2013, 08:25 AM

M14 in '66, basic training at Ft Lewis. Same in AIT at Ft Gordon and we still had M14s in the 82nd.

Got introduced to the M16a1 at Bragg when I got my orders for Vietnam, and the M16a1 w/the 101st in the RVN.

Joined the NG in '73, and the M16a1 then. Got the M14s back when I started competitive shooting for the Guard.

We got the 'A2's later in my Guard Career but my issue weapon as the M1911a1 then.

WW2 · September 10, 2013, 06:10 PM

Later in BCT got to try the M60 (sweet)!

Always with iron sights (What's an ACOG?)

Tucker 1371 · September 10, 2013, 07:38 PM

M16A2, Parris Island SC, 2010.

Current issue weapon- M16A4/M203

September 7, 2013, 04:12 AM	#51
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	M-16A1, Ft. McClellan, Alabama- 1987. I don't recall seeing anything but Colts, and was perplexed at all the lowers which were still stamped "AR-15", and there were a few chromed (or shiney) bolt carriers in B-787 MP Bn. I'm guessing they were all parts masters, because I was under the impression that if the rifle had a shiney bolt carrier, then it ought to have a 3-pronged flash suppressor and no forward assist. But, I believe they all had the A1 bird cages and forward assists. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 7, 2013, 08:08 AM	#52
vito Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2004 Location: IL Posts: 853	M1 when I entered college ROTC in Sep 1960; M14 when I went on active duty in July 66. When I arrived in Vietnam in July 1970 I was issued an M16, with no instruction or training. I was one of those "old timers" who scoffed at a plastic rifle, especially with the small caliber .223 round. But it worked pretty well when called upon to fire. I guess right now I'd love to have an M14. __________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ― George Orwell

September 7, 2013, 09:41 AM	#54
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	M16A1, during a ceremony on a beach south of Ashkelon, Israel, just north of the Gaza Strip, in 1986. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

September 7, 2013, 11:47 AM	#55
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,804	M16A1 (and a rather worn one, at that) Ft Leonard Wood, MO, 1975. Basic Training. A little later, in AIT, I did get some experience with the M14. My class in Small Arms Repair at Aberdeen Proving Grounds was the last class the Army trained on the M14 rifle. And as far as hearing how many people over the years had worn, or virtually worn out rifles in their basic training, that's certainly true. That's because they are training rifles. Not sure about today, but in the 1970s, the Army accuracy standard for overseas shipment of M16s was 8MOA. Think about that for a moment. None of the rifles I ever saw was that poor (and a saw a lot), but it could have been, and still been sent into combat! I don't know for sure, but I think (and hope) we do things a little bit differently (and better) today. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 7, 2013, 02:36 PM	#56
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	M16, Lackland AFB, 1965 ... Qualified as marksman, they let us fire one mag full auto and I never saw one again ... the life of a MAC-trained killer ... __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

September 7, 2013, 08:46 AM	#53
Tom68 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 349	M16A2, Fort Benning, GA in 1990. We were issued the A2s for Basic Rifle Marksmanship, and then after we qualified, we turned them in for A1s for the remainder of OSUT. Some of the A1s retained the triangular handguards, while most had been replaced with round ones. All of the A1s were pretty "experienced". Mine in particular was an H&R if I remember correctly. By the time I returned to Benning for OBC in 1992, all of the A1s seem to have been retired, for I never saw anything but A2s.

September 7, 2013, 03:08 PM	#57
jwden123 Junior Member Join Date: August 29, 2013 Posts: 7	My initial weapon was an M1 Garand at Parris Island in Sept 1962. One week before we went to the rifle range for marksmanship training, they took all of the M1s and gave us M-14s. I only fired the M1 a few times and I hated doing "inspection arms" with it. Ever hear of M1 thumb? The M14 was a really nice rifle, although the first ones had a flash suppressor held on with a roll pin, instead of screwing on.

September 7, 2013, 03:09 PM	#58
kymarkh Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2008 Posts: 181	M16A1 1982 Fort Benning Georgia B - 5 - 1 Bravo! Victory through Skill! Never really experienced many malfunctions with the various A1's I used in 3 years of Infantry service as long as we are talking ball ammo. You start talking 500+ rounds of blanks in a day then its a squirt of Breakfree into the bolt carrier every other magazine to keep her running. Great rifles.

September 7, 2013, 03:48 PM	#59
Sgt.Fathead Junior member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,637	A very battered but still very accurate M16A2 at Parris Island in 1987. I actually arrived for Basic on April Fools Day! The rifle I was issued was the first rifle I'd fired aside from .22LR bolt actions in Boy Scout camp and a few BB guns and qualified Sharpshooter with it. As an 0331 I spent much more time with the M60E3 and sometimes the E1,the M2 HB Browing .50 and the Mk19. The SAW made it's way to us later. I'd take and M60E3 again or even better the E4! If, IF!, someone else is paying for that linked 7.62. I'll also state in truth that I'm just as happy with my civilian AR.

September 8, 2013, 03:23 PM	#60
2rugers Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2005 Location: texas Posts: 762	That black plastic gun with all the doo'hickeys on it. __________________ Pain Is The Quickest Teacher 2RUGERS AKA "HALFCOCKED"

September 8, 2013, 04:05 PM	#61
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	M16A1, Ft. Sill, OK ..... June, 1985. I remember the forward assist was round .... it was, in general, in really rough shape.

September 8, 2013, 07:22 PM	#62
Hundy Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2013 Posts: 111	Pretty much like most here M16A1 in Basic and Infantry school Fort Benning GA. 1988 M16A2 my first unit 82nd Airborne Fort Bragg NC M249 SAW 2 months later at Fort Bragg I was mostly a SAW gunner for my 4 years in. I had a first generation SAW, a-lot of issues. The M249's of today look a-lot better and hopefully they worked out the bugs.

September 9, 2013, 10:00 AM	#63
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	M16A2 w/ irons, MCRD San Diego, CA, 2010 Now I use an M4 w/ ACOG. It is a much nicer setup, and far easier for most people to rifle qual with. There are still a surprising amount of people that completely fail though. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

September 9, 2013, 10:14 AM	#64
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	>>Now I use an M4 w/ ACOG. It is a much nicer setup, and far easier for most people to rifle qual with.<< Are you saying the ACOG is used on the range for qualification? If so, things have sure changed since I was a Gyrene! __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.

September 9, 2013, 12:45 PM	#65
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	When I was in boot, we used irons to qualify, but in the fleet we use ACOGs on the range. However, now even boots are being taught on ACOGs while at MCRD, so they don't even know how to use irons unless they learned somewhere else. I just recently qualified with my scoped M4, and getting expert is just cake if you have any sort of halfway decent shooting form. Like I said though, there are still a surprising amount of people that fail entirely. I suppose I may also be somewhat biased as I shoot far more than just my military issue stuff and far more frequently than many of them do, being a gun guy and all. Many of these guys only fire a weapon of any sort once or twice a year when they qualify. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

September 9, 2013, 12:53 PM	#66
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	In OSUT, we had to qualify with iron sights, but before deployment, and every year since, we've qualified with an ACOG or M-68 depending on what the Soldier used. Qualify with what you shoot type of deal. __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

September 9, 2013, 12:57 PM	#67
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	When range week comes around, the armory will actually loan out ACOGs for people to use, even if they don't have their very own issued one, so that qualification will be easier. I'm sure there are some units that may not have enough ACOGs for their shooters, so perhaps a few people still qualify with irons every once and a while. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

September 9, 2013, 01:33 PM	#68
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	Well, that shows you how out of touch I am! You have to remember, I go back to the M14 days of the early/mid '60's, and the ACOG wasn't even heard of! __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.

September 9, 2013, 01:39 PM	#69
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I'm sure the Corps' shooting program won't be something that I keep track of after I'm out either. They could shorten the distances and start using red dots, and I would have no problem being blissfully clueless about it. __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

September 9, 2013, 03:29 PM	#70
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Fort Cambell KY, Served from 66-68. M14, M16, M60. Loved the M14 & M60, Carried the black stick in VN from May 67-68. Just give me a good bolt action Rem. 700 any day.

September 9, 2013, 04:10 PM	#71
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	Fort Knox KY, 1989. M16A1 and M3 Grease-gun.

September 10, 2013, 05:40 AM	#72
Falcon5NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Somewhere North of the Roaring 40's...Just Posts: 275	IW Steyr (Steyr AUG) S/N: NZ9010425 RNZAF Base Woodbourne 2001 __________________ It is New Zealand's role to send out its bright young men and women to help run the rest of the world. And they go, not hating the country of their birth, but loving it. From this loving base they make their mark on the world. Pro-1080 Poison and proud of it!!

September 10, 2013, 08:25 AM	#73
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	M14 in '66, basic training at Ft Lewis. Same in AIT at Ft Gordon and we still had M14s in the 82nd. Got introduced to the M16a1 at Bragg when I got my orders for Vietnam, and the M16a1 w/the 101st in the RVN. Joined the NG in '73, and the M16a1 then. Got the M14s back when I started competitive shooting for the Guard. We got the 'A2's later in my Guard Career but my issue weapon as the M1911a1 then. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 10, 2013, 07:38 PM	#75
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	M16A2, Parris Island SC, 2010. Current issue weapon- M16A4/M203 __________________ Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250 Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging. OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe

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