Downloading surp guns?

Tom2 · August 25, 2013, 07:56 PM

This might belong in the reloading forum, but it does not address any specific loadings. My question is thus: There are alot of neat milsurp vintage guns that are lightweight carbines, not full sized rifles. But alot of them fire a full sized cart designed for a full length rifle application. In the carbines, or short guns, they develop alot of muzzle blast and recoil, and can sometimes be a pain to shoot very much. What I wondered is if anyone that handloads had tried reduced loads for their downsized carbine types to make them pleasant to shoot with good results for accuracy, etc.? Like maybe load some shorty to perhaps like 30-30 power levels or so. I understand that case capacity might make this trickier than it first appears unless you find a light powder charge or lighter weight bullet that works without creating problems.

emcon5 · August 25, 2013, 08:12 PM

Here is an option:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20R...le%20Loads.pdf

Tom2 · August 27, 2013, 05:30 PM

That is a good start or ideas. I was mulling over why I never reloaded for the Mosin, and eventually ditched all the short barrel MN's I ever had, after firing them not a great deal with full bore surp ammo. As an instance. I suppose I could have downloaded the round to a more enjoyable level for more shooting. And there are others that have a reputation from the short barrels and powerful government loadings. Heck, I even found a normal K98 not much fun to shoot with that cup steel buttplate.

kraigwy · August 27, 2013, 06:01 PM

Work up some loads using 5744, it makes nice mild, Accurate, rounds.

I use it in all my surplus rifles and a few others, including my 375 H&H.

Old Stony · August 27, 2013, 06:43 PM

If you check out the Lyman cast bullet book, they list a lot of reduced loads using inexpensive lead bullets. I've used a lot of .30 ca. cast in things like 30/30, 30/06 etc., and there are all kinds of possibilities for other dia. bullets as well.

tahunua001 · August 28, 2013, 08:26 AM

my steyr is arriving today, I'll be expirimenting with trail boss and cast bullets to get a nice, light recoiling, low reporting load.

Paul B. · August 28, 2013, 03:33 PM

Most of my lightweight loads for .308 Win. and 30-06 class rifles use cast bullets and 25.0 gr. of either IMR of H4895. My wife wanted a light load to practice with her Ruger M77 RSI in .308 but that rifle is extremely fussy about ammo and won't shoot cast bullets accurately at all. I tried an experiment using the 25.0 gr/4895 load with some 150 gr. Winchester Power Point bullets I had on hand and they worked reasonably well for her. If I were to try that with a 30-06 level cardtidge, I think I'd go 2.0 full grains higher.
Paul B.

RC20 · August 29, 2013, 11:09 AM

There is always that balance in accuracy and velocity. I load down to save gun wear.

I am using TAC in the 30-06 and have done well with it though its not one of the normal recommended accuracy loads.

What works in one gun doesn't necessarily work in another, let alone across different mfgs.

Rifling differences are important in that equation.

My 1917 with original barrels likes the 175 gr with TAC.

The JA barrel one prefers the 4831 at a couple hundred fps faster.

tahoe2 · August 29, 2013, 10:15 PM

Having a couple of Spanish milsurps in 7x57mm mauser, I handload
to pressures of the carbines era (40,000-44,000 CUP) which gives
me a velocity of 2400 fps with a 160grn bullet, 2500 fps with a
150grn, and 2600 fps with a 140 these are plenty good deer killers
as well as black bear.
a standard 30-30 load with 150 grn runs about 2300 fps, so the mauser is
just slightly more powerful with the same recoil or less, depending on the rifle.
These mausers are a pleasure to shoot and plenty accurate, not scoped,
lightweight and easy to carry all day.

August 25, 2013, 07:56 PM	#1
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Downloading surp guns? This might belong in the reloading forum, but it does not address any specific loadings. My question is thus: There are alot of neat milsurp vintage guns that are lightweight carbines, not full sized rifles. But alot of them fire a full sized cart designed for a full length rifle application. In the carbines, or short guns, they develop alot of muzzle blast and recoil, and can sometimes be a pain to shoot very much. What I wondered is if anyone that handloads had tried reduced loads for their downsized carbine types to make them pleasant to shoot with good results for accuracy, etc.? Like maybe load some shorty to perhaps like 30-30 power levels or so. I understand that case capacity might make this trickier than it first appears unless you find a light powder charge or lighter weight bullet that works without creating problems. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

August 27, 2013, 05:30 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	That is a good start or ideas. I was mulling over why I never reloaded for the Mosin, and eventually ditched all the short barrel MN's I ever had, after firing them not a great deal with full bore surp ammo. As an instance. I suppose I could have downloaded the round to a more enjoyable level for more shooting. And there are others that have a reputation from the short barrels and powerful government loadings. Heck, I even found a normal K98 not much fun to shoot with that cup steel buttplate. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

August 27, 2013, 06:01 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Work up some loads using 5744, it makes nice mild, Accurate, rounds. I use it in all my surplus rifles and a few others, including my 375 H&H. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 28, 2013, 08:26 AM	#6
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	my steyr is arriving today, I'll be expirimenting with trail boss and cast bullets to get a nice, light recoiling, low reporting load. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

August 28, 2013, 03:33 PM	#7
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Most of my lightweight loads for .308 Win. and 30-06 class rifles use cast bullets and 25.0 gr. of either IMR of H4895. My wife wanted a light load to practice with her Ruger M77 RSI in .308 but that rifle is extremely fussy about ammo and won't shoot cast bullets accurately at all. I tried an experiment using the 25.0 gr/4895 load with some 150 gr. Winchester Power Point bullets I had on hand and they worked reasonably well for her. If I were to try that with a 30-06 level cardtidge, I think I'd go 2.0 full grains higher. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 25, 2013, 08:12 PM	#2
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	Here is an option: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20R...le%20Loads.pdf

August 27, 2013, 06:43 PM	#5
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	If you check out the Lyman cast bullet book, they list a lot of reduced loads using inexpensive lead bullets. I've used a lot of .30 ca. cast in things like 30/30, 30/06 etc., and there are all kinds of possibilities for other dia. bullets as well.

August 29, 2013, 11:09 AM	#8
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	There is always that balance in accuracy and velocity. I load down to save gun wear. I am using TAC in the 30-06 and have done well with it though its not one of the normal recommended accuracy loads. What works in one gun doesn't necessarily work in another, let alone across different mfgs. Rifling differences are important in that equation. My 1917 with original barrels likes the 175 gr with TAC. The JA barrel one prefers the 4831 at a couple hundred fps faster.

August 29, 2013, 10:15 PM	#9
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 661	Having a couple of Spanish milsurps in 7x57mm mauser, I handload to pressures of the carbines era (40,000-44,000 CUP) which gives me a velocity of 2400 fps with a 160grn bullet, 2500 fps with a 150grn, and 2600 fps with a 140 these are plenty good deer killers as well as black bear. a standard 30-30 load with 150 grn runs about 2300 fps, so the mauser is just slightly more powerful with the same recoil or less, depending on the rifle. These mausers are a pleasure to shoot and plenty accurate, not scoped, lightweight and easy to carry all day.