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Old June 20, 2013, 10:40 AM   #26
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We had an officer assist some tourist get their motor home running. That was about 10 AM, about 5 that after noon the same tourist showed up at the police station with his gun. Seems he work most of the shift not knowing his gun was missing. Uniform cop at that.
Wow. So much for situational awareness!
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Old June 20, 2013, 11:10 PM   #27
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an arguement for DA only sidearms....

A few years ago, gunwriter & tactics trainer, Massad Ayoob wrote of a uniformed cop in AK, who removed a loaded SIG P220 .45acp from a security box. The hammer caught the edge of the container and was cocked.
The officer later drew the pistol in a field interview event then had a ND.
The cop now uses a DA only spurless design.

As stated, cops and security guards are not robots but they need to be careful.
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Old June 21, 2013, 05:13 PM   #28
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So why does it need to leave the holster?
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Old June 21, 2013, 09:38 PM   #29
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So why does it need to leave the holster?
Try dropping your pants so you can sit down on the pot without having the gun lay on the floor where God knows how many people have wee-wee'ed on!

That is why you take the gun out of the holster.

“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
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Old June 21, 2013, 09:45 PM   #30
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So why does it need to leave the holster?
Good question. But I suspect it's likely the officer was wearing a holster that his belt looped through and didn't want to lay the holster/pistol on the bathroom floor when he dropped trou.
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Old June 21, 2013, 11:08 PM   #31
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So why does it need to leave the holster?
When you unbuckle your belt and pants the tension of the tightened belt is no longer holding the pistol and holster snug to your body. When loose the weight of the pistol can cause the holster to flop over and your pistol can fall to the ground if it has no retention. I always just stick it down my pant leg when my trousers are dropped, there's absolutely no forgetting your pistol in the bathroom when you go to pull your pants up with a hunk of steel sitting in it.
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Old June 22, 2013, 12:11 AM   #32
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He's not the first and won't be the last cop to leave his gun in the bathroom.

Shoulder holsters are slower but you won't ever have to remove your gun when you have to sit down to relieve yourself.
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
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Old June 22, 2013, 12:55 AM   #33
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No one is perfect but this definitely shouldn't be something left behind!!

I leave mine on the hook on the door in front of me and then its never out of sight. However not every bathroom has that hook. The key is to always keep it in sight...Your gun should always be in sight.
If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made Rosie O' Donnell fat!
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:33 AM   #34
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it happens all the time. yet the general public isnt considered safe to have a gun by these elites.

in michigan a few years ago an off duty cop left his gun in a bathroom stall, and the wonderful citizen who found it proceeded to shoot through a wall and into a vending machine. everybody in that case got charged with something and prosecuted.

i believe that its always been standard practice to loop the gun belt around ones kneck and make it into a temporary shoulder holster so that you always have gun at hand while your doing business.
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Old June 22, 2013, 12:02 PM   #35
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I've been pondering this for a while. Glock 26 is no lightweight. How would one leave and not notice that weight was missing?
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Old June 24, 2013, 03:47 PM   #36
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[QUOTE-Erno86] I think it's bad doo-doo for someone to remove a pistol from a belted hip holster, while sitting on the throne; inorder to keep the pistol from falling out. I believe the pistol should be kept holstered with the waist of the pants --- along with the holster ---dropped no further than just below the knee caps. If the waist of the pants were dropped to boot or shoe level...the pistol and holster would be visible under the toilet stall from any passer-by who felt free too take a gander. [/QUOTE]

This ^ is exactly what I do. The holster I use has adequate retention so there's no way the gun will fall out even if it gets flipped upside-down.

Plus, in the rare instance when I find myself at a social function where it would be unacceptable to reveal that I'm armed, having someone spot a holster underneath a stall door is just as bad as having them spot the gun itself.
Here's a thought for the extra-cautious: If someone spots my holster on the bathroom floor, they not only know that I'm armed, but where I carry my gun. Which would facilitate a snatch later.

I carry a 3" SP101 in a Side Guard Quick Snap, for reference.

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Old June 25, 2013, 07:41 PM   #37
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A civilian did this a few months ago in the restroom at a retail store up here, a Glock with a chambered round. A clerk turned it over to the police, and the owner (had a CCP) claimed it. No charges, but the press had a field day.

No one got hurt. And from the press reports the owner was a decent enough guy. But it sure didn't advance our cause in an already challenging political climate.
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Old June 26, 2013, 12:20 AM   #38
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Until you carry a gun every day for a living in soft clothes, you may not appreciate how easy that might be. One PD I worked with had gun rug type holsters mounted at eye level (sitting on can) on every latrine stall door. The problem was generally resolved.
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Old June 26, 2013, 10:10 AM   #39
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In this case, I'd return the gun....but I'd probably keep the ammo.....finder's fee....
Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......
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Old June 26, 2013, 03:02 PM   #40
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About 12 years guy at our pistol range, left his Ruger Encore pistol, along with an extra three barrel set, on top of a station bench. He left the range on his motorcycle...only too never see his Encore pistol and three barrel set again.

Early last spring...I found a cased 22 Anschutz target rifle, on a rifle rack behind the firing line --- on our 100 yard outdoor range --- placed there by a member and totally forgotten, from the night before. I knew who the rifle belonged too --- gave it to the RSO --- with the member coming out later that morning, with him expecting his rifle not to be stolen.
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell

Last edited by Erno86; June 26, 2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old June 26, 2013, 04:55 PM   #41
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I know officers have and will continue to leave pistol in bathrooms. To me it's still reckless and careless. If I would have been the one to find it he would have gotton a lesson , he wouldn't be owning that one no more.
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Old June 28, 2013, 03:43 PM   #42
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Anyone can have a momentary lapse of reason,,,

...he wouldn't be owning that one no more.
I think that's how my Mom became the owner of a Colt snubbie,,,
This was way back in the dark ages when she owned the bar I was born in.

I've never seen one abandoned in a bathroom,,,
But three times I've gone to my range and found guns left there.

A nice Savage rifle,,,
An expensive looking over-under shotgun,,,
And a Ruger 22 semi-automatic pistol of some Mark version.

Anyone can have a momentary lapse of reason,,,
I haven't as yet but the key word is "yet".


Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
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Old June 29, 2013, 08:13 AM   #43
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This entire thread is not a good reflection on LEOs. It says they are careless and indifferent when it comes to firearms handling.
Fact is, when I owned my gun shop the only people who ever brought in gun loaded and handed them to me were police. These were not their service arms but sporting arms that either needed repair or they were trying to sell. I can't say why but my antenna went up when a police officer came in with a gun. Scary.
BTW, if I found a gun in a bathroom stall it would be mine if I could not identify the owner. If I could I would return. I would not trust a clerk, or whatever, to do the right thing.
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Old June 30, 2013, 11:09 PM   #44
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My wife read this thread and she had to both laugh and shake her head in disappointment.

Since she started carrying 3 years ago, she has made countless trips to public rest rooms... It is nearly a daily occurrence for her. I hate to point out the obvious, but unlike a man, a woman must sit down every time she visits the toilet. So she has ample experience in this matter.

She says the solution is simple. unbuckle the pants and belt and lower them to knee level, then refasten the belt. Use leg muscles to apply tension to the belt at knee level, thus preventing the pants, holster, and gun from going any lower than the knees. This also keeps the holster positioned "up" rather than flopping around. Now sit, and do your business. Yes, you do have to keep a bit of tension on the belt with your knees the whole time.

I asked her "what if it is hard to relax while tensioning your knees", and her response was "eat more fiber and relaxation won't be a problem".

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Old July 1, 2013, 02:58 AM   #45
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Almost, but not quite....

I almost had a big hassle about 5 years ago, when I drove down to the Port of Miami & Miami Florida then left my pistol case(which contained my loaded Ruger GPNY .38spl revolver) on the hood of my Chevy Cavalier.
An alert cab driver waved at me & pointed out my goof.

Mistakes can occur. Stress, fatigue, illness etc can cause mishaps but care should be taken with firearms/ammunition.

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Old July 1, 2013, 09:35 AM   #46
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Excellent post.

I'm with your wife, shaking my head and laughing. Do some guys really just drop trou clear to their ankles in public toilets? Ewwwww.

If your carry gear does not hold the gun securely even while using the facilities, you need better carry gear. A holster that lets the gun fall out when it's tipped gently upside down is a bad holster and should be thrown away -- and I don't care how much you paid for it. "Holding the gun securely" is right at the top of the holster's job description. If it won't do that much, it's trash.

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Old July 2, 2013, 06:44 PM   #47
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I pocket carry a small revolver in a right front pocket holster so no matter my need I don't take the gun out.

I was at my local range a couple of years ago on a Saturday and saw a range bag sitting under a table. I opened it and discovered 3 Sig 9mm's , holsters, custom earplugs and about a hundred rounds of ammo. The owners name tag was on the bag so I called him, took the guns home, and he picked them up. He left them at the range the Saturday before and had not missed them. It was a good bag because it had rained several times that week but everything inside was dry. His response when I called him was, "Oh well". Didn't even say thanks.
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Old July 3, 2013, 12:08 PM   #48
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Massad Ayoob; Barney Miller's Det Fish....

This topic reminds me of a gun press item, author & use of force trainer Massad Ayoob put out about holsters & public restrooms.

Ayoob brought up the old ABC TV sitcom; Barney Miller & the veteran NYPD detective character; Fish(Abe Vigoda). Ayoob stated it would make sense for a older cop like Det Fish to tote his S&W model 10 revolver in a leather shoulder rig if he needed to make frequent trips to the restroom.

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Old August 20, 2013, 06:17 PM   #49
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Detective was demoted to patrolman which carries a big reduction in pay. I think this case is over now.

I bumped an old thread just to finalize the incident.
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Old August 28, 2013, 06:01 PM   #50
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Even worse, in Seattle, a cop left his AR-15 on the back of the patrol car. Then another cop proceeded to drive around the city with the rifle still on the car.
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