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Old May 6, 2013, 05:44 AM   #26
Whisper 300
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Like many who have already chimed in, I would go elsewhere to shoot.
If, however, that were not an option how about just putting your reloads in a nice fresh factory box?
What are they going to say? Will they examine each round for factory appropriate headstamp?

That all being said, I would most likely drive another 30 miles to find someone more gun friendly/less greedy.
There is one gun store range locally that requires that you purchase what you shoot in the store and have the receipt to show the range master but aside from a CCW course I took there many many moons ago I have not returned.
Besides that, I did use my reloads for the course training as the range master was not on since the course was early a.m. before the shop opened.

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Old May 6, 2013, 05:45 AM   #27
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Look at all that money they are leaving at the same table that they made that rule up on. I can't go to that range because 99.99% of the time I'm shooting my handloads..
Thanks for coming!
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:02 AM   #28
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Their range, their rules.

I can understand all those policies we don't like, and just shoot where I can live with the rules.

I just completed the range portion of the CCW course for Ohio yesterday. No reloads at that range. Had to buy my first box of factory ammo in 25 years.

With Reloads, the double charge, or the revolver squib followed a good round can really mess up the innocent guy next to you. Some ranges don't even have partitions.

Most would not mind you picking up your brass, however most guys don't confine their pickings to their own brass when they are down there picking it up. Most brass is flung over several lanes, and its annoying to shoot when people are crawling around under you and behind you. Brass catchers are helpful.

At yesterdays session the instructor had a clear prejudice against lead ammo in general, especially wadcutters. He claimed that wadcutters sprayed lead out the sides, and anybody shooting them had to let him know so they could be segregated. My guess is that he had a bad experience and thinks they are all that way.

The magnet test is for steel core ammo which is very effective at penetrating steel which is what the final layer of the backstop is.

I once shot at a range that forbid semi-jacketed ammo. I never could figure that one out beyond some nutty theory related to bullet separation and flying fragments.
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:45 AM   #29
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Indoor ranges have hostility to steel core rounds for two reasons:
1. as noted it tears up the backstops.
2. they spark bigtime. Fires BAD!
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:54 AM   #30
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Many of the ranges where I am in the St. Petersburg area don't allow reloads. They all cite liability concerns and even post pictures of exploded cylinders around the range to demonstrate how dangerous reloading can be.

That being said there are two other ranges...not as nice though...that do allow reloads so I go there most of the time. Sometimes I buy a box and shoot at the range that doesn't allow reloads. No one collects their brass, and it is all once fired.
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:57 AM   #31
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While many here might know what they are doing in reloading, many do not. Way too many folks getting their knowledge from You Tube and the idiots who post, resulting in serious kaboom possibilities. They don't know you from anyone else when it comes to that, and after the several murder/suicides that have happened at ranges, I would bet their insurance carrier has given them some stringent rules.

As mentioned, their house and rules - if you can't live with that you go elsewhere
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:23 AM   #32
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When I lived in AZ, Ben Avery (huge state owned range - rather awesome one at that) instituted a policy that you were only allowed to retrieve brass from your gun. Any other brass was property of the range (they sold it for scrap or to reloading companies and used that as part of their operating income).

I went from an every weekend shooter to here and there as a result and made much more use of the range I built out in the desert, but I understood it was their rules.

I'd not patron a range that told me that I could not pick up my own brass. It is my brass, regardless of whether or not it hit the ground.

Most ranges I know that have restrictions generally don't like steel core ammo or FMJ ammo, but that is because they penetrate further and theoretically do more damage to the berm backstops. I'm not one that really believes they do that much more damage to warrant not allowing their use, but whatever.

I'm happy my gun club has no such restrictions. I'd have to find somewhere else if they did.
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:28 AM   #33
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There is an indoor range (at least one) here in the Nashville area with this policy. No reloads, and it is for insurance reasons. The owners clearly communicated the reason and the costs associated, so while I may not fully agree I do understand the reason.
I shoot at an outdoor range that often does not even have an officer, or if so not within 50 yards, and they don't care what is shot.
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:44 AM   #34
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A range close to me has the no reloads policy. Not sure why. I wasn't reloading at the time and didn't ask. I don't think they care if I pick up the brass (at least they didn't complain when I was there). Now that I'm starting to reload, though, I have to go where hooligan1 goes.

The problem with that range is that you can't shoot faster than once every three seconds, or something like that. So it's ok for checking out reloads, but not for real practice. I guess I need to buy 100 acres and get my own range.

I may need some sort of brass catcher, too.
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:49 AM   #35
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I have seen a lot of Range Insurance policies - that say the range cannot sell any reloaded ammo, some that say all range users have to be "members" or guests of members to shoot there - but I've never seen a policy that excluded anyone from shooting reloads in their own guns ( in range rental guns - yes ) ...

But while insurance is one issue....there is a range in my area that will not allow you to shoot any reloads even in your own guns / or any new ammo that you purchased outside of their range premises - even in your own guns. Basically - you have to buy all of your ammo at their range.

but - its their range / its their rules !
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:49 AM   #36
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I may need some sort of brass catcher, too.
Or shoot revolvers for handguns and bolt actions or single shots for rifles - no brass issues.............
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:51 AM   #37
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+1 on buying your own property. I've also considered buying into hunting clubs in the off season just to use the land to shoot. Also some retired people that live in rural areas with alot of land may consider letting you shoot on their land. I thought about putting an ad on craigslist offering cash for private land to shoot on. y lawyer offered to write me up a realease for the land owner releasing him for any liability and putting any liabilty on me from my shooting.
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:02 PM   #38
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go spend your money somewhere else
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:20 PM   #39
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Yes, it's their shop, and their rules. I can live with that.

But it's also my money, and my choice - and they have to live with that.
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Old May 6, 2013, 04:58 PM   #40
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I have every sympathy with ranges that want to control what goes into any guns they loan out - it's their property that some careless twit with a too-hot reloading habit might blow apart, after all. I can also understand a leave-it-on-the-ground rule for competitions where shooters have to move rapidly from place to place. The rest make no sense to me.

But yeah. Their range, their rules... your choice to remain. Or not...
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Old May 6, 2013, 06:28 PM   #41
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I would go elsewhere to shoot.
+100. All I shoot is reloads. I'd have no option but to go elsewhere. The day I have to buy factory ammo is the day I hang up my guns for good.
A clinger. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes improperly referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. Ok.... the .44Spec is growing on me ... but the .45 Colt is still king.
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Old May 6, 2013, 06:46 PM   #42
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y lawyer offered to write me up a realease for the land owner releasing him for any liability and putting any liabilty on me from my shooting.
Is that going to include any environmental cleanup due to lead contamination or just for injury? Does that include returning his property to the original state before you start shooting and building backstops?
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:43 PM   #43
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Like the airlines and their behavior towards their customers with all the additional charges other than the airline cabin air itself. I see Range rental weapons and Range ammunition only!! even a count of how many times the target trolley is used per session on the horizon for a Ranges additional income. It's a sign of the times. "What ever the market will bare."
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:43 PM   #44
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I feel blessed to take 10 steps from my press and shoot in my back yard.
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:50 PM   #45
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I have a couple tractors and a few dump trucks so yes I would build a backstop and remove all the lead/dirt when I'm finished.

If it was on hunting camp land then I wouldn't clean up anymore than a dove shoot would make me. Which is zero. But I would build the backstop. I would pay camp dues like any other member of the hunting club.
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:55 PM   #46
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Where I live there are no indoor ranges, just 1 gun club with outdoor ranges where you must pay a yearly membership. however lots of BLM land with legal shooting, i go to an old national gaurd armory training center thats been abandoned on BLM land. and unless it's a rimfire, I'm always shootin reloads. but my sister in south texas tells me their range doesn't allow reloads. i feel really lucky to live here in NM.
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Old May 6, 2013, 08:22 PM   #47
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That is a new one on me.
I have been to many ranges, in many states, indoor and outdoor.
Many sell reloads.
Many have a rule buy their ammo only.
Many have a rule, leave the brass.
Many have a rule, no steel. And no steel targets, unless inclement weather. There is a great fire danger here at times (of no rain, which is usually 6 months) and so, no steel to spark and start a fire.
The one I went to Sunday, outdoor, has a real nice reloading shop, with all supplies and bulk powder.
So I suspect it has nothing to do with insurance, tho' that is possible, that they got some real cheap policy.
The boss doesn't necessarily tell the employees the real reason. He just tells them 'tell them it's the insurance what don't allow it'.
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Old May 6, 2013, 08:49 PM   #48
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Yes, I have heard of this policy. More than once and at different ranges. As was mentioned: it's their range, they can do what they want. If you want to shoot there, you have to abide by their rules. I have no problem with it at all. If I did, I would still go there and shoot. Depending on their ammo prices I might shoot .22s.

I have also been to indoor ranges where they required you to buy the ammo from them. I have been to ranges where you wern't allowed to pick up your brass.

I have been to ranges that made no bones about it: they openly told you that they wanted to sell you their ammo (including reloads) and they wanted to keep the brass from all ammo shot there. That may or may not be true in your case. In may be due to insurance or liability. I don't know much about insurance and am not a lawyer. I certainly know nothing about the ins and outs of the insurance for an indoor shooting range. For all I know, they are worried about some guy blowing up his guy and hurting the OTHER customers in addition to himself.
You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.
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Old May 6, 2013, 09:13 PM   #49
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The range I use will let you shoot whatever you bring with you. However, an indoor range that a friend of mine uses only allows factory ammo that is FMJ. I have not been to my friends range, but if I ever go I will bring my own reloads. How will I get away with that you ask? I've kept a few of the empty boxes from factory ammo that I will refill with my reloads that are plated lead. No one will be the wiser.
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Old May 7, 2013, 09:18 AM   #50
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In at least one range in the Seattle area, one can rent handguns.
The ammo must be purchased at the range.
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
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