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Old April 20, 2013, 09:29 AM   #1
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Lies and liars

I'm still reeling from the President of the these United States saying that "...the gun lobby and its allies willfully lied about the bill...". I am an ally of the gun lobby and I do not like being called a liar, especially a willfull liar. Our own Pennsylvania Senator Pat Toomey went out of his way in an e-mail he sent to me to tell me more of what his bill amendment would not do, than what it would do. Was this done as a reaction to willfull lies or because he needed to sell it as hard as he possibly could? Keep in mind that Reid's bill was perceived by themselves to be so bad, that they needed to amend it to the point that it might possibly pass. It just wasn't the slam dunk they had hoped for. Regardless, I am offended. I've heard the NRA called many things - nuts, fringe, minority, cavemen, hillbillies - but can't recall us being called a bunch of liars.
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:30 AM   #2
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Well he should know! A lie, that is.
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:57 AM   #3
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How about the "statistic" that 90% of Americans want the bill to pass? I don't know anyone who was asked. I did read yesterday how the poll was taken and I'm sure it was a very select group who were asked to speak for all Americans.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:33 AM   #4
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Who was it that said, "Lies, damn lies, and statistics."
NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:39 AM   #5
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How about the "statistic" that 90% of Americans want the bill to pass? I don't know anyone who was asked. I did read yesterday how the poll was taken and I'm sure it was a very select group who were asked to speak for all Americans.
To be fair, a poll with sample size of about 1,100 or so *can* accurately reflect the opinions of a much larger population to a high degree of accuracy and precision, IF the sample is selected randomly, AND those polled provide truthful answers.

As an example, if you have a population of 300 million, and you want to be 95% certain that your poll results reflect the population as a whole, plus or minus three percentage points, you only need a sample size of 1067 people.

It's the same reason why even though TV shows live and die by their Nielsen ratings, and there's huge money involved, there are only about 25,000 "Nielsen families" used to represent over 100 million TV-viewing households in the U.S. And they could easily get by with even fewer if they didn't need to further break up the sampled households into demographic groups like "male/female", "18-34", "18-49" and so on, while still maintaining an adequate sample size for each sub-group.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:44 AM   #6
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Lies and liars

The poll asked if people favored background checks, not if they approved the M-T amendment nor the Reid bill.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:45 AM   #7
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Many gun owners saw this existing president as anti-gun before he became president.

Currently, some of those that didn't then view him as anti-gun have/are changing their minds towards him.

Hopefully, the rest will look at his anti-gun tactics(lies, deception and using false stats) and concede to the fact that he really is anti-gun and will remember come next election day that the person this administration endorse's as their pick for their next presidential candidate, will mirror the same...and vote accordingly.
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Old April 20, 2013, 11:33 AM   #8
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In all fairness, a poll that samples 7 eastern states with a sample size of perhaps as low as 300 portrayed as "America speaks" isn't even close enough to be wrong. It's a total fabrication, and a damnable lie.
Being called a liar and worse by such ilk is an honor and a privilege.
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Old April 20, 2013, 11:49 AM   #9
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Think about this logically. If gun control, UBC, AWB...etc was so wanted or needed, why the hell didn't the Senate even attempt a vote on it? It couldn't possibly be that they know that each and every one of them would get figuratively lynched if they pushed for it, could it? Naw, it couldn't have been that.

Gun control advocates are a small but vocal minority that garners the attention of the media and a certain group of political backers (read egomaniacal elitist - dictator wannabes). Even then, I do not know of one single gun control advocate who thinks it's ok to sacrifice their own life or that of a loved due to their gun-control beliefs when they (or a love one) are being being robbed, beaten, or raped by a bad guy when they have the option of shooting the bad guy to stop the attack.
"You haven't lived until you've died." - various
People . . . not a big fan . . .
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Old April 20, 2013, 11:51 AM   #10
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If we want to discuss the source study for the 90% myth, there's a thread here.

Yes, I know many politicians (including the President) have thrown around accusations of lying. There have been other, more objectionable insults. But turnaround isn't fair play, and it's beneath us.
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
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