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Old April 22, 2013, 04:47 PM   #1
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Scout Rifle and DMR

Alright so recently(or it seems like recently) there has been a resurgence of talk about the scout rifle being the perfect one gun rifle; handy, intermediate cartridge(or .223 for availability), low-medium power optics or FTA iron sights. My argument to this is, while a scout rifle isn't a bad choice, a DMR(Designated Marksmen Rifle) is a better just one gun, rifle.

A DMR is generally a similar platform to standard issue weapons (both M14's and M16's have been modified to DMR's), is equipped with a medium variable power scope, 3-9X36 is the standard on the SAM-R and the MK11 and 3-15X50 was used on the DMR before it was phased out, and is generally equipped with backup iron sights. So a DMR would have superior effective range over a scout rifle, with back up iron sights one could easily equip a the optics with QD rings and remove the longer range optics and utilize the irons for the FTA if necessary, use a holosight/reflex sight with a magnifier, or a holosight/reflex sight mounted on top of the scope, optics options are pretty much unlimited these days.

While DMR/EMR and SAM-R/SR25(MK11)'s all have longer (22" ish) barrels, it wouldn't be a problem to cut back to 20" or even 18" to maintain the handiness of the scout rifle and still be able to effectively engage targets or take game out at 500+ meters with decent application of marksmanship skills.

What are some other thoughts on this, with modern optics options and the ability to remove optics and no loose zero, I would say having a traditionally mounted medium power scope with a top mounted holosight or secondary sights would be a better "just one gun" rifle than the scout rifle concept.

Not saying the scout rifle is a flawed concept or that a scout rifle do a great job being a lightweight general purpose gun, I just think for modern use a longer range DMR with a FTA option is a more useful design as far as a one gun gun goes.

EDIT:added paragraphs. Also definition of "Just one gun" is literally your only rifle, no other choices sitting in the safe, whether your hunting varmints or deer or fighting off OPFOR, you have one rifle. DMR in either a intermediate or 5.56/5.45 cartridge would be better IMO than a rifle of the same caliber set up as a scout rifle. Also semi auto isn't a solid rule for a DMR, while most military DMR's are either m14's or m16's, a ruger GSR or marlin levergun equipped with a normal scope and bipod would be a sufficient DMR. I guess what I'm getting at is a mid powered scope with a secondary option is easier to obtain these days than it was back when the scout rifle was first engineered, so is the scout rifle still holding its position as "best one gun, gun"
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Last edited by triggerhappy2006; April 22, 2013 at 05:59 PM.
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Old April 22, 2013, 05:26 PM   #2
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If you put paragraphs in your post it would be much less hurty on peoples brains to read.

It entirely depends what your main use is, if your running around mountains all the time carrying a big heavy semi auto 308 is not really going to appeal to many people.
The perfect to it all rifle is going to be different for everyone as everyone has different ideas on what a do it all rifle should be best at.

My do it all rifle should be mainly good for small varmints and then other uses second, where as Joe Blogs down the road might want a rifle more suited for elk and deer and shooting rabbits second.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:28 PM   #3
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How about one of these?

7.62x51 NATO with the recoil of a .223.

No, I am not advertising for them, I am just really liking them after getting some trigger time on one recently!

Engage a target at 10 yards with offset iron sights, and then go for an easy 500 yard shot...All with a good solid punch delivered by a full-power rifle round.

The picture that I posted was from the manufacturer, the gun that I fired did not have the mini red-dot on top of the scope.
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Old April 24, 2013, 09:49 AM   #4
Art Eatman
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I dunno. Seems to me that there are varying opinions for "all around", just as with any other "gotta be this way" thing.

"Light, reasonably accurate and handy" seem to be the most important factors for a scout-type rifle. Generally, they're thought of as maybe 300-yard rifles.

SFAIK, a DMR tends to be longer and heavier. That's a bit of a downer if you're hunting in thick brush and need to make a snap shot in lieu of going Bambiless.
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Old April 25, 2013, 11:10 AM   #5
Ben Dover
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IMO, the "ideal" scout rifle is the U.S. rifle, calibre 5,56X45mm, M-4, fitted with a Trijicon A.C.O.G.
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Old April 26, 2013, 09:11 AM   #6
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My, how things have changed!....

I suggest you study some paleontology, and dig up that "dinosaur" Jeff Cooper, and read his concept of what a "Scout Rifle" ought to be.

His ideas about length, weight, power (capable of taking an 800lb animal), sights, etc., defined the "Scout Rifle".

And it is a fine combination of things, a very good blend of features, being very useful over a broad range of applications.

Cooper's one error in regard to the Scout Rifle concept was that virtually no one else looked at a "scout" the way he did. Current militaries don't operate in a manner where Cooper's scout rifle was more useful to them than standard arms.

And a lot of people just couldn't get that a "scout" might be something other than what the military does today, and so either didn't support, or even derided Cooper's concepts. Also the fact that for many years no one (other than a custom build) built a rifle incoporating all of Cooper's concepts meant that when you did get your hands on a "scout rifle" it wasn't perceisly what the concept intended.

Too many people only focused on short, and a forward mounted scope, and thought that made a scout rifle.

Now, it's still a (relatively) free country, and you can call anything you want a scout rifle, and so will I. And to me, no 5.56mm rifle falls into that category. Its also really tough to make the weight limit with any semi auto.

So, go ahead and define it any way you want, so your pet choice fits, but if it is radically outside of Cooper's concept, I think you ought to call it something other than a "Scout Rifle".
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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