Fixed cylinder versus swing out? - Page 2

Hundy · March 10, 2013, 01:04 PM

Just wanted to say thank you for posting, and adding to this thread. I am currently researching my next purchase. I strongly feel I am going to buy a Single Action Replica of some form, just a matter of which one. I must admit, I really like the look and feel of the Umberti 1860 Army conversion. But I am still unsure and in the market. This thread had a-lot of information for me. Thank you for sharing.

Jay

James K · March 12, 2013, 11:49 AM

Lucas McCain wrote: "If fort had all S & W's but on occasion the quartermaster issued Colt ammunition which couldn't be used in the S & W pistols. Put that with politics and they lost out to Colt."

That didn't happen because, as noted above, the army NEVER issued .45 Colt cartridges, only the .45 Army, the short Schofield length. So no matter what kind of revolver the troops had, the issue ammunition would fit.

By the time the Model 1909 cartridge came along, the Model 1873 was long out of service and the Army didn't care two hoots that an obsolete gun would become a "three shooter" with the new cartridge.

Jim

Bob Wright · March 12, 2013, 03:01 PM

I beg to differ with you there, JamesK, the Army issued .45 Colt length ammunition from 1875 to about 1875, these all from Frankford Arsenal:

In addition, the Army had already issued, and had stores or, these rounds, the .44 Colt and the .44 S&W (later the American):

Further, there was also the issue of .50 Remington Centerfire for the 1871 Remington rolling block pistol. In fact, ammunition supply was a nightmare.

Bob Wright

Rainbow Demon · March 12, 2013, 04:41 PM

From 1909 to 1920 S&W marketed a .38 S&W revolver, "the perfected", that combined some of the features from the swing cylinder design with a topbreak frame.
This fine looking piece had both thumb latch that pushed in a spring loaded arbor extension and the standard top latch.
Probably not much stronger than a simple top break but less likely to become loose with normal wear.

For those interested in a modern magnum chambered top break revolver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP412_REX

DaleA · March 12, 2013, 05:32 PM

Wanted to say thanks Bob Wright. Been away from the computer for a few days. Once again the depth of knowledge available on this site is truly impressive. Thanks again.

James K · March 12, 2013, 06:12 PM

Hi, Bob,

FA began manufacture of the .45 Colt ("long" Colt) in 1873, but the first production order for the short cartridge was issued in August, 1874, and it has been my understanding that production of the longer cartridge was stopped at that time and never resumed. (The Schofield was reportedly in use in the regular army as late as 1887.)

Could be wrong, not the first time.

Regardless of the exact dates, the short .45 Army cartridge was the only revolver cartridge issued from 1874/75 to the phaseout of the SAA in favor of the .38 revolver.

Jim

March 10, 2013, 01:04 PM	#26
Hundy Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2013 Posts: 111	Thank you for this thread Just wanted to say thank you for posting, and adding to this thread. I am currently researching my next purchase. I strongly feel I am going to buy a Single Action Replica of some form, just a matter of which one. I must admit, I really like the look and feel of the Umberti 1860 Army conversion. But I am still unsure and in the market. This thread had a-lot of information for me. Thank you for sharing. Jay

March 12, 2013, 04:41 PM	#29
Rainbow Demon Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2012 Posts: 397	From 1909 to 1920 S&W marketed a .38 S&W revolver, "the perfected", that combined some of the features from the swing cylinder design with a topbreak frame. This fine looking piece had both thumb latch that pushed in a spring loaded arbor extension and the standard top latch. Probably not much stronger than a simple top break but less likely to become loose with normal wear. For those interested in a modern magnum chambered top break revolver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP412_REX Last edited by Rainbow Demon; March 12, 2013 at 04:53 PM.

March 12, 2013, 11:49 AM	#27
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Lucas McCain wrote: "If fort had all S & W's but on occasion the quartermaster issued Colt ammunition which couldn't be used in the S & W pistols. Put that with politics and they lost out to Colt." That didn't happen because, as noted above, the army NEVER issued .45 Colt cartridges, only the .45 Army, the short Schofield length. So no matter what kind of revolver the troops had, the issue ammunition would fit. By the time the Model 1909 cartridge came along, the Model 1873 was long out of service and the Army didn't care two hoots that an obsolete gun would become a "three shooter" with the new cartridge. Jim

March 12, 2013, 03:01 PM	#28
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	I beg to differ with you there, JamesK, the Army issued .45 Colt length ammunition from 1875 to about 1875, these all from Frankford Arsenal: In addition, the Army had already issued, and had stores or, these rounds, the .44 Colt and the .44 S&W (later the American): Further, there was also the issue of .50 Remington Centerfire for the 1871 Remington rolling block pistol. In fact, ammunition supply was a nightmare. Bob Wright

March 12, 2013, 05:32 PM	#30
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Wanted to say thanks Bob Wright. Been away from the computer for a few days. Once again the depth of knowledge available on this site is truly impressive. Thanks again.

March 12, 2013, 06:12 PM	#31
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Bob, FA began manufacture of the .45 Colt ("long" Colt) in 1873, but the first production order for the short cartridge was issued in August, 1874, and it has been my understanding that production of the longer cartridge was stopped at that time and never resumed. (The Schofield was reportedly in use in the regular army as late as 1887.) Could be wrong, not the first time. Regardless of the exact dates, the short .45 Army cartridge was the only revolver cartridge issued from 1874/75 to the phaseout of the SAA in favor of the .38 revolver. Jim