Shooting from inside a coat pocket

[bearclaw46]

I've seen the old James Cagney movies where he's packing a 38 or 45 in his coat pocket and takes out multiple advesaries, never removing the gun from the coat or vest. Has anyone ever shot a gun in a coat pocket and wouldn't this be the ultimate carry conceal way to surprise a perp with a bullet instead of your wallet, esp if it were a close belly shot?? Would the coat cause a blockage or act as a plug causing a dangerous situation at the front of the barrel?? I've never heard anyone discuss something like this or any training exercises on this method of self defense.

[pax]

I have done it.

With semi-autos: you get one shot. Never a second one. The slide can't move inside the pocket, and if it does, the fabric will jam it up and stop it from going back into battery.

With revolvers: you can fire multiple shots. Your hand will feel warm, but you won't get burned unless you hold the gun stupidly. If you have practiced shooting from retention position, you may be able to hit a target at very close range from inside the pocket. You probably won't be able to do it well or in a repeatable way, and you probably won't destroy enough jackets to get really good at it. It's fundamentally different from firing outside the pocket in the same basic shooting position, because you don't have the benefit of seeing the gun out of the corner of your eye, and because the shape/feel of the jacket pocket changes your body dynamics a little.

The biggest drawback is that if you are carrying in a decent pocket holster -- which you really should! -- you'll have to pull the gun out of the holster before you can fire.

I would do it if I were rassling with an attacker so could go for a contact or near contact shot. Not otherwise.

pax

[MLeake]

In colder months, I carry a J-frame in the weak-hand outside pocket of my coat. It functions both as BUG and as the immediately available firearm, if my coat is closed. If I had to shoot it from the pocket, I would, but in addition to suffering loss of accuracy, there are at least two other factors that would concern me.

First, in a physical confrontation, I'd rather have both hands and arms free. A hand in a pocket effectively ties up my hand and my arm, and depending on the scenario, fending or striking might be more important than shooting.

Second, try moving around rapidly, turning, and changing levels with one hand in a pocket. It has a major impact on balance. Depending on the scenario, moving freely may be more important at any given instant than shooting.

So, is shooting from the pocket worth practicing? Sure, if you can afford the training jackets... OTOH, actually shooting from the pocket in a defensive scenario would be a last-ditch method, IMO.

[kraigwy]

In Anchorage it would get a bit nippy every now and then. We were issued parkas.

The parka was designed with a side zipper that was suppose to allow you to keep your service revolver exposed. Sounded nice in theory but at the range I quickly found out the revolver always got hung up on the coat.

Parkas have rather large pockets so I just stuck a snubby in my pocket. Walked around with my hand in my pocket and on my revolver any time I figured I may need it.

Never fired in from the pocket, I figured practicing would cause me to have to buy a new parka and those puppy's were expensive. I figured it would beat getting a revolver hung up in a zipper if you needed it.

The thing is, like any other pocket carry, you can be ready and no one knows.

[g.willikers]

Make sure your jacket isn't made from the more flammable fabrics.
Some of them burn real good.

[Old Grump]

Make sure your jacket isn't made from the more flammable fabrics.
Some of them burn real good.

You are a few decades late with that advice. Doing defensive drill exercises and one of my young deputies asked that very same question about shooting from a pocket. It was brisk and windy but not really cold and I was wearing a windbreaker. Only gun I had with me that fit inside the windbreaker pocket was an old H&R 922 revolver so move up to 7 yards, hand in pocket, point shoot and got one shot off. Partly because the hammer caught on the torn lining of the pocket, partly because the pocket was on fire. Got gun untangled and pulled out with just a little superficial first degree burn on the knuckles and fingers. Coat was totaled. Had a big black spot where the pocket used to be when I finally got the fire out. Practice if you must but use old clothing and a pocket with no lining in it. My suggestion is a hammerless revolver on the order of S&W 638 or Ruger LCR

[bearclaw46]

Thanks, REALLY good info here. I wasn't even thinking about the slide in a pocket
and only getting 1 shot off, much less a fire in a pocket and burn marks on my hand. Thanks for that info. I carry a Taurus 709 Slim in 9mm in my pocket and probably would never attempt it now. Not that I really would want to but if it was all I had, I guess I'd take one shot that way. But it's great to know I wasn't the only one that was thinking if it worked for Cagney it must work...but w/real bullets and others that have really done it for real....not recommended I guess.

[ltc444]

Ditto on the automatic. slide will hang up and jam.

I remember one of the ICONs discussing pocket shooting with a revolver. He indicated that the hammer would often hang up on the material of the garment. If memory serves the J-Frame S&W with the hammer shroud were developed to combat that flaw.

[colbad]

Love my 642 for this exact reason. DC is cold and a trench coat over a suit makes access to a full frame impossible. The hammer-less 642 is perfect for this. If you leave your bottom buttons open slightly you can shoot through the inside lining without destroying the outside of the coat. With your hand in your pocket you can even engage someone who has the drop on you...especially someone stupid enough to bring a 1911 to gun fight and not cock the hammer.....trust me on this. Can't however use a pocket holster. I now can shoot through my pocket without making a hole.....due to ones now there from last time. It does catch the felt cloth on fire a bit.

[North East Redneck]

Very interesting subject. I have a 442, it has no external hammer, my biggest fear of firing from in the pocket is fire. From what I'm reading here, the fire really isn't that bad. And ruining a coat to save life and limb is no problem. Practice clothing would be worth the sacrifice if I ever needed to use this technique. Thanks for the great info.

[MLeake]

ltc44, according to an article I read recently, Colt beat S&W to the punch, with a bolt-on hammer shroud for its D-frame revolvers. S&W followed suit with the original Bodyguard model J-frame, which looked more graceful as the shroud was integral to the frame.

The Centennial was based on stretching the I-frame Safety Hammerless to take the .38 Special, as opposed to the I-frame's .38 S&W. Eventually, the Centennial and its descendants evolved to lose the grip safety from the original design, too.

One reason I like the 442 is that it has virtually nothing that can snag.

[MLeake]

North East Redneck, my greatest fear would be horrible accuracy. Obviously, practice would require a large backstop area, until point-firing from the pocket became more natural.

[James K]

Most raincoats and many overcoats have cut through pockets so the wearer can reach his inner pocket without exposing his hands to the cold. But that setup also allows the hand to hold the gun free of the pocket and fire by either flipping the coat out of the way or by firing through the coat. Of course, it means holding the gun in the hand, not in a holster, so it would be used only in periods where danger is foreseen, yet concealment is necessary.

Jim

[ModernGunner]

I think everyone would agree it's, basically, a 'last ditch' operation. And I think this is one area where a shrouded or hammerless revolver has a distinct advantage over a semi-auto.

There's also a great selection of FRC's (Fire Resistant Clothing) available today, so if budget allows you might want to pick up a jacket or two.

I've never really seen any FRC trench coats, but they MAY be other there. Usually, they're more of the bomber or baseball jacket type design. And they're only marginally more expensive than the equivalent non-FRC type.

Hey, and listen. If anyone feels they would need a specific item for such carry, like a FRC trench coat, feel free to PM me. Know some folks in the business, and maybe you could get it custom made AND at a reasonable price. I'd sure be willing to look in to the matter, if it would benefit someone.

[sfmedic]

One doesn't fire from the pocket while wearing a Dolce & Gabbana suit. Maybe if im wearing a Boss or Giorgio Armani Ill consider it.

just remember to be aware of where your non firing hand is when you do that

[robmkivseries70]

Quoting JamesK,
"Most raincoats and many overcoats have cut through pockets so the wearer can reach his inner pocket without exposing his hands to the cold. But that setup also allows the hand to hold the gun free of the pocket and fire by either flipping the coat out of the way or by firing through the coat. Of course, it means holding the gun in the hand, not in a holster, so it would be used only in periods where danger is foreseen, yet concealment is necessary.

Jim "
End quote

This is a very real tactical surprise when the BG is looking for the victim to try and withdraw the hand from the pocket.
Best,
Rob

[North East Redneck]

MLeake, I was thinking along the lines of the BG being almost within arms reach. A situation where a would be attacker confronted me at several feet away and began to advance suddenly, giving me no time to draw my weapon.
I could practice this method at the club I belong to on our outdoor pistol range. Say 4-6 feet from the target. And there is a huge berm behind the targets.

[ltc444]

Mleake thank you for the lesson on the colt. I was not familiar with that model. I have all ways preferred the small Colts over the Smiths.

There is one benefit of catching your coat on fire. When you are dancing around and on fire you make a harder target.

If the BG has a sense of humor they will be laughing to hard at the crazy who is on fire to continue the engagement.

[sigxder]

Careful though. Muzzle blast from a revolver can set some coats on fire. Don't show that in the movies.

[shouldazagged]

I carry a Smith 640 .38 Special. That's one of the many reasons.

Sacrificing a jacket, and maybe slightly scorching my hand, to save my ancient derriere seems a reasonable trade to me.

But practice shooting from a pocket? I can't afford that many clothes.

[RedBowTies88]

I tried it in an old zip up jacket pocket with my p64, to my suprise it didn't jam...but I only fired 3 shots. I suspect thats becuase this gun has so positive extraction and such a strong recoil spring to force the slide back into battery.

I also tried it while still in the pocket holster in the pocket. That jammed it right away.

[I'vebeenduped]

I would imagine that it would be very difficult to rob or molest someone that is aflame! Either way, bad guy... zero!

[KnotRight]

Agree with the 640 and 642 S&W. Besides being able to shoot through your pocket being hammerless, you also can get it out of your pocket without hanging up on any thing. Also good for a female carring a pocketbook.