C&B cylinder questions?

Hazzard99 · February 1, 2013, 01:56 AM

I have an 1858 ASM Buffalo revolver .44 Cal, made in 1989. I need to replace the cylinder but I was wondering if other manufacturers would fit and if so which ones. I was told by a gunsmith it needed replaced, because when it is cocked the cylinder will rotate to far, and when the gun is cocked you can still rotate the cylinder. This was handed down from my grandfather and I have never used it, but I would love to bring it back to life!

thanks

denster · February 1, 2013, 02:16 AM

It does not sound like you need to replace the cylinder. More likely it is another internal part that needs replaced. First guess without seeing it would be the trigger bolt spring. Take the cylinder out of the gun and watch the bolt as you cock the hammer. It should lower in to the frame and then snap back up under spring tension.

radom · February 1, 2013, 02:38 AM

What you need is a new gunsmith.

Noz · February 1, 2013, 09:41 AM

I agree with radom.

Check hand spring and bolt/trigger spring. Probably the latter.
VTI will have replacement parts.

Fingers McGee · February 1, 2013, 12:47 PM

+2 on needing a new gunsmith. I definitely sounds like the trigger/bolt spring. Rotating too far when being cocked pretty much eliminates the had spring as a culprit. Or, it could just be that the bolt is rusted/jammed/bound in the down position. Taking the trigger guard off and checking the trigger/bolt spring will tell the tale.

Noz · February 1, 2013, 03:07 PM

We all fall into the mistaken premise that if an individual advertises them self as a gunsmith then they know all about our black powder guns.
Not the case.
I took a gun to a well known and respected(locally) gunsmith that specializes in building really fine rifles. I came out of it with 300 miles of travel, $135 in expenses and a ruined rifle barrel.
It cost me over $200 to learn my lesson. Do your homework before you assume he has done his.
I study a little and do the majority of my gunsmithing myself.

Hawg · February 1, 2013, 05:28 PM

Single action revolvers no matter what flavor are pretty simple mechanisms. Any reputable gunsmith that doesn't specialize should have no problems with one. Get a new smith.

Hazzard99 · February 1, 2013, 11:49 PM

And thats why joined this forum!! thanks

Doc Hoy · February 2, 2013, 04:17 AM

Welcome to the forum, Hazzard!

unknwn · February 4, 2013, 01:06 PM

Yeah,unfortunately the cost of learning whether a gunsmith deserves a reputation (either good -or- bad) can sometimes be measured in ruined gun parts and emptied wallets.
It is always best to ask as many pertinant specific questions as the consumer might formulate BEFORE allowing even a GOOD gunsmith to turn you into a paying customer.

I have question about your revolver. Did this problem of over-advancing of the cylinder rotation -develope- or is it something that has been evident with this particular gun all along?
If it has always had this/these symptom than I would tend to look at the profile of the hand. The early version of Colts style revolvers have the heighth of the "tooth" area of the hand as the initial period of cylinder rotation followed by the side face of the hand "nudging" the side of the ratchet tooth to complete the rotation of the cylinder so that the bolt will drop into the notch or wide area of the leade and not the uncut area of the cylinder's circumferance.
This is all a bit confusing when trying to understand a description rather than illustrations accompanied by captions.
I have learned about the hand/ratchet/bolt timing aspects of my revolvers from the astoundingly well written/illustrated books by Jerry Kuhnhausen (The Colt Single Action Revolvers- A Shop Manual, Volumes 1&2 ) and can only recommend that title as a study guide for learning the intricasies of the deceptively simple cylinder rotating mechanisms employed in these guns.
At about $40.00 for the volume, it is really quite cheaper than allowing a self-proclaimed "gunsmith" or other "expert" audition your guns to learn thier craft on.
Those types rarely apologize by replacing ruined parts or determining "no charge" when the problem remains or is only partially (or worse) "fixed".

Hazzard99 · February 7, 2013, 02:55 AM

I have only had the gun for a few months, it was handed down from my grandfather. If you pull the hammer all the way back it over rotates, but if you just go until you feel the click, it lines up.

February 1, 2013, 01:56 AM	#1
Hazzard99 Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2013 Posts: 3	C&B cylinder questions? I have an 1858 ASM Buffalo revolver .44 Cal, made in 1989. I need to replace the cylinder but I was wondering if other manufacturers would fit and if so which ones. I was told by a gunsmith it needed replaced, because when it is cocked the cylinder will rotate to far, and when the gun is cocked you can still rotate the cylinder. This was handed down from my grandfather and I have never used it, but I would love to bring it back to life! thanks

February 1, 2013, 12:47 PM	#5
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	+2 on needing a new gunsmith. I definitely sounds like the trigger/bolt spring. Rotating too far when being cocked pretty much eliminates the had spring as a culprit. Or, it could just be that the bolt is rusted/jammed/bound in the down position. Taking the trigger guard off and checking the trigger/bolt spring will tell the tale. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

February 2, 2013, 04:17 AM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Whoa..I missed that.... Welcome to the forum, Hazzard! __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 1, 2013, 02:16 AM	#2
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	It does not sound like you need to replace the cylinder. More likely it is another internal part that needs replaced. First guess without seeing it would be the trigger bolt spring. Take the cylinder out of the gun and watch the bolt as you cock the hammer. It should lower in to the frame and then snap back up under spring tension.

February 1, 2013, 02:38 AM	#3
radom Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 1,353	What you need is a new gunsmith.

February 1, 2013, 09:41 AM	#4
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	I agree with radom. Check hand spring and bolt/trigger spring. Probably the latter. VTI will have replacement parts.

February 1, 2013, 03:07 PM	#6
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	We all fall into the mistaken premise that if an individual advertises them self as a gunsmith then they know all about our black powder guns. Not the case. I took a gun to a well known and respected(locally) gunsmith that specializes in building really fine rifles. I came out of it with 300 miles of travel, $135 in expenses and a ruined rifle barrel. It cost me over $200 to learn my lesson. Do your homework before you assume he has done his. I study a little and do the majority of my gunsmithing myself.

February 1, 2013, 05:28 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Single action revolvers no matter what flavor are pretty simple mechanisms. Any reputable gunsmith that doesn't specialize should have no problems with one. Get a new smith.

February 1, 2013, 11:49 PM	#8
Hazzard99 Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2013 Posts: 3	And thats why joined this forum!! thanks

February 4, 2013, 01:06 PM	#10
unknwn Member Join Date: January 20, 2011 Posts: 25	Yeah,unfortunately the cost of learning whether a gunsmith deserves a reputation (either good -or- bad) can sometimes be measured in ruined gun parts and emptied wallets. It is always best to ask as many pertinant specific questions as the consumer might formulate BEFORE allowing even a GOOD gunsmith to turn you into a paying customer. I have question about your revolver. Did this problem of over-advancing of the cylinder rotation -develope- or is it something that has been evident with this particular gun all along? If it has always had this/these symptom than I would tend to look at the profile of the hand. The early version of Colts style revolvers have the heighth of the "tooth" area of the hand as the initial period of cylinder rotation followed by the side face of the hand "nudging" the side of the ratchet tooth to complete the rotation of the cylinder so that the bolt will drop into the notch or wide area of the leade and not the uncut area of the cylinder's circumferance. This is all a bit confusing when trying to understand a description rather than illustrations accompanied by captions. I have learned about the hand/ratchet/bolt timing aspects of my revolvers from the astoundingly well written/illustrated books by Jerry Kuhnhausen (The Colt Single Action Revolvers- A Shop Manual, Volumes 1&2 ) and can only recommend that title as a study guide for learning the intricasies of the deceptively simple cylinder rotating mechanisms employed in these guns. At about $40.00 for the volume, it is really quite cheaper than allowing a self-proclaimed "gunsmith" or other "expert" audition your guns to learn thier craft on. Those types rarely apologize by replacing ruined parts or determining "no charge" when the problem remains or is only partially (or worse) "fixed".

February 7, 2013, 02:55 AM	#11
Hazzard99 Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2013 Posts: 3	I have only had the gun for a few months, it was handed down from my grandfather. If you pull the hammer all the way back it over rotates, but if you just go until you feel the click, it lines up.