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Old February 13, 2013, 11:18 AM   #26
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I am recoil sensitive, I carry and shoot a m&p 40 compact-recoil is pleasant, gun is fun to shoot.
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Old February 13, 2013, 11:22 AM   #27
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Actually that price was off a bit...

It is $489.99 + 35.00 lic Fee + $29.40 sales tax total $554.40. Is this still a good price for a used Para-Ordinance P12?
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Old February 14, 2013, 02:11 AM   #28
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I have to say I am one of those who finds the .40 less pleasant to shoot than the .45, in the same size/design of handgun.

I own 3 .40s, and I prefer 9mm or .45acp to them any day of the week. 9mm has more 'snap', but less 'push' than a .45, to me. I like 9mm more for those who are recoil sensitive, as long as you fire normal [non plus-P] loads.

I have a 4" commander 1911 and a few 5" GI-length 1911s. The 4" commander feels nice, but it does take a little more focus to maintain the same size groups and it feels a little more 'lively' in my hand.

I also have a 4" GP100 with the rubber/rose-wood grips on it [not the finger-groove hogue grips]. I can put one or two boxes of strong factory [by which I mean in the 600+ ft/lb muzzle energy category] through it comfortably, but my accuracy starts to drop off around round 75. When I had the finger-groove grips on it I had trouble finishing off a 50-round box.

SP101s will move a lot with full-poer .357mag rounds. A different grip added may help, but it will move.

If you are really recoil sensitive, and not just a flincher [like I tend to be often], I'd stick with a 5" 1911 in .45acp for power and recoil management.

Here is one OTHER option though: M&P .45 full sized.

I was in an accident 10 years ago. I hyper-extended my left wrist. It still aches at times and doesn't have the strength it should. My 4" Commander 1911 makes it sting after 7 rounds when firing left handed unsupported. My M&P 9c makes it sting after about 10 rounds. My other guns do the same thing.

HOWEVER, my M&P .45 does NOT make it sting, even after 20 rounds. Very subjective and unscientific, but the full-sized M&P causes me less pain when firing one-handed with my left hand than any other center-fire gun I own or have shot, so far. This is comparing 9mm to .40, to .45, to .357Sig and the revolver calibers [.38/.357/.44mag]. Of course my .22lr doesn't bother it, but I said center-fired calibers.

Just something to think about if you are like me and have a significant issue that training won't resolve.
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Old February 14, 2013, 08:24 AM   #29
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I absolutely enjoy shooting my Shield in 40 cal

I have shot other 40 cals that kicked more, but the little
Shield does a great job soaking up much of the recoil.

I also like my M&P 45C..... Also a soft recoiler

I have shot the keltec 380, and i thought it was Much worse recoiling
An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus

Buying American made, wherever I still can
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Old February 15, 2013, 06:28 AM   #30
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To me it all varies according to the load. But the typical load of 230 gr .45 is the gentlest of the other two which are about the same for me overall.

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Old February 15, 2013, 11:15 PM   #31
Join Date: January 17, 2011
Location: NE PA
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Any thoughts on these guns/makers?

The more I consider it the more I'm thinking .45.

In the new category:

Rock Island .45 compact

Bersa Thunder .45 Compact

In the Used Category:

Para Ordinance P12
Iver Johnson compact .45 (1911 style)

Any and All comments and thoughts are desired...specifically parts availability, customer service, quality, accuracy, fit and finish.

Thank you Hope to make a purchase no later than Monday.
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:09 AM   #32
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I have and have had several guns in all three calibers you mention. I currently own a Taurus PT140 Millennium Pro (compact .40S&W), S&W 1911SC (Commander sized/4" barrel, alloy .45ACP 1911), S&W 65LS (3" K-frame .357mag), and a Rossi 461 (2", small frame .357mag snub). I no longer have but have owned a CZ 40B and SIG P229 in .40, a Ruger KP345 and Charles Daly 1911 in .45, and a Taurus 605, S&W 19, and S&W 586 in .357mag. I have shot thousands of rounds of .40, and tens of thousands of rounds of .45 and .357mag.

I agree with the consensus, it is no comparison. All of the auto calibers have a much more gentle recoil impulse than .357mag. Add that you are using a small snub for the .357mag and there is no question, I doubt there is a semi-auto made that wouldn't be far easier to shoot than your SP101.

If you decide to also check the 9mm (there are some great 9mm defensive rounds these days, it isn't like it used to be), it is a snappy, but light, recoil impulse, and is probably the best for people with recoil issues. The .45 has a much slower, straight back, but heavier recoil impulse. The .40 is a high velocity round like the 9mm, yet it is a big bore with fairly heavy bullets like the .45 so it has both the snappy recoil of the 9mm and the heavy recoil of the .45. This combination puts many people off, but I have no problem with it. If you have a range near you that rents guns, try to rent a .40 and .45 back to back in as similar a platform as possible (or better, in the actual guns you are considering) so you can really test them out to see how they work for you.
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Old February 16, 2013, 08:20 AM   #33
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That's a decent price for a p12, not great, but fair depending on condition. Very comfortable gun to shoot
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Old February 16, 2013, 09:47 AM   #34
Join Date: January 17, 2011
Location: NE PA
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Here is a photo (PDF) of the P12

this is a photo of the P12 I am considering...after this weekend my decision may be made for me if it is sold.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Para Ordnance 69356.pdf (1.88 MB, 4 views)
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Old February 16, 2013, 10:36 AM   #35
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So I guess at the end of this my question is in your experience is the felt recoil of either the .45 and/or the .40 cal. less than my .357 snub nose revolver?
This really depends on the gun. However, the felt recoil from a .357 snub nose is substantial - what I mean by that is really uncomfortable after firing about 20 rounds (for me). Part of that is due to the heavy double action pull combined with an immediate harsh "jolt".

In fact, none of my autos: DE .44 magnum, EAA Stock 10mm, down to 9mm's are as harsh as a double action snubnose .357.

I have an STI LS40 - tiny 1911 style .40. I can easily put 50 rounds through this without feeling any pain or fatigue.

So, I think you can go with just about any SINGLE ACTION auto, whether in 9mm, .40 or .45 and that will greatly reduce pain and fatigue compared to shooting a double action .357. Also, the heavier the gun, AND the better the recoil system (which people tend to forget about) the less felt recoil.
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Old February 16, 2013, 10:42 AM   #36
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Thanks Skans...

You Mention...
" AND the better the recoil system (which people tend to forget about) the less felt recoil."

What is "Better" with regard to recoil system?

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Old February 16, 2013, 04:29 PM   #37
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Lately I've been having fun with one of the new Walther PPK/S pistols in 380 acp. It does whip up due to such a short barrel but it is not unpleasant. The stock grips weren't comfortable so I changed them out to some that fill the grip a little more and that helped a lot.

The weight, geometry of the gun, and your own tolerance will determine which you find the most comfortable more so than what cartridge you go with. I find the 9mm Luger and 40 S&W about the same in felt recoil. The 357 Sig should have felt worse but instead in the XDm I shot it in it was a cupcake. So far the most pleasant to me large caliber recoiled pistol has been an XD45. But I determined I like the 1911 better than a striker fired pistol. A S&W 586 4" revolver shooting 38 spcl wadcutters is very pleasant to shoot and has a great trigger to boot.

You just have to determine what you like and then determine what you need for the intended duty. Sometimes comfort is the least of your worries. Fortunately you can pick and choose.

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Old February 17, 2013, 10:10 AM   #38
Join Date: January 17, 2011
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Star M-45 .45 cal pistol


Does anyone have any experience with the Star M45? It sound like a prety sturdy gun but I have no experience.

I like the all steel frame and with the weight at about 36 oz it's heavy but I have NO problem with that.

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